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-   -   Aerodynamic improvment in front of vehicle. (Tire spats/deflectors) (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/aerodynamic-improvment-front-vehicle-tire-spats-deflectors-12080.html)

phord 01-29-2010 01:07 AM

Aerodynamic improvment in front of vehicle. (Tire spats/deflectors)
 
I think we all (with aerodynamic cars) can use whiskers like in front of Daihatsu UFE III (2005 Concept) to reduce front wheel drag.

My aero improvment will include whiskers, move side mirrors inside, wipers air deflector, a kammback.

cfg83 01-29-2010 02:18 AM

phord -

You mean this? :

http://images.motortrend.com/auto_sh...tsu_ufe3_z.jpg

I'll bet you said whisker because it has a catfish look to it. I think the proper term is "strake". Here it is on the Ford Probe IV :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...iv-strakes.jpg

For me, they look like toy boat hulls, so I have kept my eye out for them in Toys R Us, ;) .

CarloSW2

Nels 01-29-2010 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 157566)
phord -

For me, they look like toy boat hulls, so I have kept my eye out for them in Toys R Us, ;) .

CarloSW2

Seems to me that some 4" or 6" diameter large radius PVC pipe elbows, creatively bisected, could get you somewhere close.

thatguitarguy 01-29-2010 10:39 AM

Note the goofy ferris wheel looking spokes painted on the smooth aero hubcap.

I've wondered if the whiskers that they use at the rear of RV's would work as the bottom of an air-dam in the front of a car? If they are stiff enough to push the air up and over - they are certainly flexible enough to not be damaged by scraping into driveways and bumping into parking curbs.

Piwoslaw 01-29-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguitarguy (Post 157610)
I've wondered if the whiskers that they use at the rear of RV's would work as the bottom of an air-dam in the front of a car? If they are stiff enough to push the air up and over - they are certainly flexible enough to not be damaged by scraping into driveways and bumping into parking curbs.

This has been mentioned here, as many trucks and busses have them, though the verdict is that the brushes are more for catching debris than aero. I personally think it would be good gap filler up front.

thatguitarguy 01-29-2010 11:54 AM

Thanks, I had missed that thread.

It does seem that if you could curve a brush around the outside edge of your wheelwell, that in conjunction with a smooth hubcap could do a fair job of isolating the airflow around and inside the wheelwell. And if you had an airdam that had 5" of ground clearance and could add a 4" brush below that, your effective airdam would be within 1" of the ground, which should do a good job of keeping air from flowing under the car. Add to that some brush side skirts and things might be pretty quiet under the car.

I wonder if there is a clearinghouse that has odd lengths of the stuff that they would want to get rid of for very little money?

cfg83 01-29-2010 03:12 PM

Nels -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nels (Post 157570)
Seems to me that some 4" or 6" diameter large radius PVC pipe elbows, creatively bisected, could get you somewhere close.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Other people have done similar things with creative cutting of round-cornered plastic kitty litter pans.

A non boat-hull shape for a strake is the shape of a dust pan like this one :

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

You would want one that does *not* taper from large to small :

http://www.business-supply.com/sku_i...6C0100_1_1.JPG

You want it to be at right angles like the one in the first picture.

CarloSW2

MetroMPG 01-29-2010 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 157566)
You mean this? :

Here it is on the Ford Probe IV :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...iv-strakes.jpg

What's the source of that image, Carlos? That looks like interesting reading.

tasdrouille 01-29-2010 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phord (Post 157554)
I think we all (with aerodynamic cars) can use whiskers like in front of Daihatsu UFE III (2005 Concept) to reduce front wheel drag.

My aero improvment will include whiskers, move side mirrors inside, wipers air deflector, a kammback.

My two cars agree.

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aerohead 01-29-2010 04:37 PM

active-suspension?
 
Does the UFE have active-suspension? It looks like the "whiskers" would be knocked off on driveway ramps,sidewalk curbs, and parking barriers.

RobertSmalls 01-29-2010 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 157690)
Does the UFE have active-suspension? It looks like the "whiskers" would be knocked off on driveway ramps,sidewalk curbs, and parking barriers.

No. It's a concept car, lacking ground clearance, rearward visibility, wipers, bumpers, practical ingress and egress, realistic interior, manufacturability, etc.

It has been recommended elsewhere that DIY wheel strakes be made flexible and expendable.

gone-ot 01-29-2010 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 157704)
It has been recommended elsewhere that DIY wheel strakes be made flexible and expendable.

...I would recommend they also be retractable, which would mitigate their need to be expendable...just have them retract into the body, against spring pressure, whenever they 'contact' something immovable; their flexibility aspect would thus be greatly enhanced.

BamZipPow 01-29-2010 08:04 PM

Sponge foam could work...it's soft enough to compress on impact but firm enough to divert air. :D

Git a block of sponge foam and cut it down to the shape you want. You'll probably have to attach it with some adhesive... ;)

cfg83 01-29-2010 08:11 PM

BamZipPow -

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamZipPow (Post 157734)
Sponge foam could work...it's soft enough to compress on impact but firm enough to divert air. :D

Git a block of sponge foam and cut it down to the shape you want. You'll probably have to attach it with some adhesive... ;)

Yeah, that's a good idea. I think you would need to paint it so that it doesn't absorb moisture.

CarloSW2

thatguitarguy 01-29-2010 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 157705)
...I would recommend they also be retractable, which would mitigate their need to be expendable...just have them retract into the body, against spring pressure, whenever they 'contact' something immovable; their flexibility aspect would thus be greatly enhanced.

How about retracting automatically under speeds of 10-15 MPH, and then lowering into position when air pressure on the bow pushes them down at higher speeds. The faster you go the lower they get. After all, if you're hitting dips and driveways faster than 10-15 MPH, you're not an ecomodder anyway.

cfg83 01-29-2010 08:31 PM

Old Tele man and thatguitarguy -

The Probe IV concept was retractable based on speed (and also springy, I think). I will post another picture later tonight.

CarloSW2

Cd 01-29-2010 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 157690)
Does the UFE have active-suspension? It looks like the "whiskers" would be knocked off on driveway ramps,sidewalk curbs, and parking barriers.

Phil good to see you again.

I use flexible rubber wall base for my 'whiskers'.
It is pretty inexpensive too.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...1&cmRelshp=sim ( $ 2.48 a section )

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2213/...4e02ab3c_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2310/...21e80dcd_b.jpg

moonmonkey 01-29-2010 08:55 PM

if you use these strakes, would side skirts help,or hurt,

BamZipPow 01-29-2010 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 157736)
BamZipPow -



Yeah, that's a good idea. I think you would need to paint it so that it doesn't absorb moisture.

CarloSW2

Plasti Dip should work then... :D

moonmonkey 01-29-2010 10:09 PM

cfg83 is there any more to post from that article? have'nt found it on the web yet, noticed the front strake is flat on the inside edge , great info!

cfg83 01-30-2010 01:30 AM

moonmonkey -

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonmonkey (Post 157767)
cfg83 is there any more to post from that article? have'nt found it on the web yet, noticed the front strake is flat on the inside edge , great info!

It's a magazine/book. There's too much to try to post everything. Here's the picture I said I would post for Old Tele man and thatguitarguy :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...ance-panel.jpg

And here's the control logic :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...anel-logic.jpg

CarloSW2

Piwoslaw 01-30-2010 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguitarguy (Post 157737)
How about retracting automatically under speeds of 10-15 MPH, and then lowering into position when air pressure on the bow pushes them down at higher speeds. The faster you go the lower they get. After all, if you're hitting dips and driveways faster than 10-15 MPH, you're not an ecomodder anyway.

I'd drop them when the vehicle exceeds 25mph, then retract when the speed is below 15mph.

I wonder how the mechanism would work in a mud/cold/snow/ice/salt environment? The area around the wheels gets the most snow/mud build up.

lunarhighway 01-30-2010 05:54 AM

as far as tire fairings go i used to run something made out of linuleum
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...s/Foto0130.jpg
basically the shape was formed by the dimentions of the sheet and the way it was attached, but if it hit anything it would deform and take it's original shape. aerodynamically my version didn't work well, so i ended up taking it off but technically the system worked well, it didn't reveive more than a few scratches on the bottom

aerohead 01-30-2010 03:34 PM

wall base
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 157748)
Phil good to see you again.

I use flexible rubber wall base for my 'whiskers'.
It is pretty inexpensive too.

Shop FLEXCO 48" x .333' Black Dahlia Wall Base at Lowes.com ( $ 2.48 a section )

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2213/...4e02ab3c_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2310/...21e80dcd_b.jpg

The wall base looks 'factory' compared to the lawn edging I used to work with.Nice!

aerohead 01-30-2010 03:38 PM

skirts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonmonkey (Post 157750)
if you use these strakes, would side skirts help,or hurt,

If the rocker panels weren't already as low as the belly of the vehicle,then doing skirts would get one even with contemporary technology.

thatguitarguy 01-30-2010 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunarhighway (Post 157821)
...aerodynamically my version didn't work well, so i ended up taking it off but technically the system worked well, it didn't reveive more than a few scratches on the bottom

A couple of questions:

Do you have any ideas about why it didn't work aerodynamically?

And, what is your belly pan made of? It's hard to tell in the photo, but it looks kinda like OSB?

Peter7307 01-30-2010 06:32 PM

Interesting detail on the Probe document.
"The use of a full length undercover body would incur unreasonable penalties in costs and weight and would not necessarily be the best solution"

Pete.

Cd 01-30-2010 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 157879)
The wall base looks 'factory' compared to the lawn edging I used to work with.Nice!

Thanks Phil.

We sell that lawn edging that you guys use at Lowes, and the wall base is not only cheaper and more flexible, but also ( as you noticed ) has a "factory" look to it since it is actually made of rubber, versus shiny plastic.

Cd 01-30-2010 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 157881)
If the rocker panels weren't already as low as the belly of the vehicle,then doing skirts would get one even with contemporary technology.

Can you reword that Phil ? :confused:

tasdrouille 01-31-2010 07:15 AM

Unless I'm mistaken, Phil is saying skirts should be as low as the lowest point under the car.

moonmonkey 01-31-2010 11:25 AM

that would make the ones on the aerocivic incorrect,, as i beleive they extend down much lower than the belly pan on his car, am i wrong?

AeroModder 01-31-2010 01:29 PM

This Aerospeed article has a ton of helpful information, including trials of different shapes/sizes:

Modifying Under-Car Airflow, Part 2
Measurable on-road improvements from a custom front undertray

MetroMPG 02-12-2010 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonmonkey (Post 158015)
that would make the ones on the aerocivic incorrect,, as i beleive they extend down much lower than the belly pan on his car, am i wrong?

Basjoos' skirts are actually a pair of skirts on each side of the car, the width between each set is the width of the tire(s). He's aiming for a "catamaran" approach.

lunarhighway 02-13-2010 05:43 AM

@ thatguitarguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarhighway View Post
...aerodynamically my version didn't work well, so i ended up taking it off but technically the system worked well, it didn't reveive more than a few scratches on the bottom
A couple of questions:

Do you have any ideas about why it didn't work aerodynamically?

And, what is your belly pan made of? It's hard to tell in the photo, but it looks kinda like OSB?


sorry to be so late to respond.

the original undertray in that picture was made from aluminium, and has since been replaced with coroplast.

i'm not sure why the dams didn't work but i think it's because they didn't cover enough tire with but to much tire height, as well as to much of the wheel well was covered.

it's not like they killed milage but i found no indication either in preceived driving behaviour as in actual FE

i must say however i only use tank to tank results so evaluatings mods like this is not very accurate to say the least.

i think the main thing with these fairings is that they cover the full width of the tire.

most older cars have bumpers that curve in and leave the lower outer portion of the tire exposed.

i'm curently running wheel dams as seen on many todays cars, with dimentions derived from measurements (1/6th tire height ground clearence below the dam) the dam coveres the inner half of the tire as well as part of the wheel well, but in front of the whell they curve backwards.

also seen from the sides the dams curve backwards slightly,

these dams "appear" to help as the car "feels" better to drive and will coast further. the weather is such however (snow and freezing) that i can't vouch for their effectivenes


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