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jim whitmer 08-24-2009 06:25 PM

alternating valve engine
 
I have invented and patented an alternating valve engine that will function just fine using 15 pound valve springs instead of the 150 (or so) pound springs in your motor. calulations indicate the energy savings from stiff to light springs will near double or more the fuel milage in a small or medium sized auto...send me your e-mail address and i'll forward to you attachments as to how it works...thanks jim whitmer...

SVOboy 08-24-2009 06:30 PM

So, you're saying that just reducing the resistance of the springs will cut fuel consumption in half?

Colour me skeptical :)

jim whitmer 08-24-2009 06:37 PM

please send me your e-mail address and i will forward attachments that contain data so you can decide for yourself...jim whitmer... 405 751 4521 if you want to chit chat....or... j.whitmer@cox.net

jim whitmer 08-24-2009 06:38 PM

It takes more energy to compress the valve springs on a four valve per cylinder engine than it does to push you down the road at 70 MPH... 405 751 4521 or j.whitmer@cox.net

MadisonMPG 08-24-2009 06:53 PM

I almost believe this.

150lb x 4 springs squished down 1/2" (i have no idea how far springs go down)
300lbs of power per "inch". Then multiply x engine RPMs. 2k @ highway. valves open one time per rpm but there are 2 sets of valves. So we're back at 600lbs per "inch" idk how much it takes in pounds to move a car down the road.
1 "inch" happens every rotation of the crank.


...i just made up stuff. lmao

Frank Lee 08-24-2009 07:06 PM

I've already made my decision.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...lflaughing.gif

That energy used to compress springs, minus friction, is largely recovered when the springs decompress.

jim whitmer 08-24-2009 07:07 PM

to all who have an interest...please send me your e-mail address and i'll forward to you attachments that explains the alternating valve engine...i'm old and near computer dum...(or is it dumb?)...I can't learn how to send an attachment thru this foreum...thanks for your interest....jim 405 751 4521 anytime...

jim whitmer 08-24-2009 07:08 PM

my e-mail address is j.whitmer@cox.net

dcb 08-24-2009 07:34 PM

You really need to be upfront and state your purpose and state EXACTLY what you think you have, not making lame excuses, nobody buys "I'm to old to do attachments".

Hmm...
lola gt - GT40s.com

Do you have a patent number?

MadisonMPG 08-24-2009 07:34 PM

I will post it, but I disagree with it. The spring pushes back just as hard as you pushed it down.
.......here it is

That didn't work.

Frank Lee 08-24-2009 07:36 PM

He's either put in a desmodromic valvetrain, or the idle speed is also the redline.

dcb 08-24-2009 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadisonMPG (Post 123445)
I will post it, but I disagree with it. The spring pushes back just as hard as you pushed it down.
.......here it is

That didn't work.

To some extent, yes, you can measure the torque at different degrees and on the "downhill" side of a lobe you will get about the same force pushing on your torque wrench as you had on the same spot going uphill.

BUT, the valves themselves are reciprocating, and have mass, so that the faster you spin the camshaft, the more force it takes to jerk the valve open, which is lost energy. As well I suspect that the springs do not return as much energy at higher speeds as they have to use some energy to accelerate the valve in the closed direction.

jim whitmer 08-24-2009 08:10 PM

alternating valve engine
 
why are some of you guys so nasty and negitive ? You havent even read the patent description write up yet? jim whitmer 405 751 4521 j.whitmer@cox .net there is a saying as follows......contemp prior to investigation will leave a man in everlasting ignorance....If you dont want to know about my patented engine....then leave me alone...I'm the one who has the 4 million dollars coming to develope it ...not you!

Frank Lee 08-24-2009 08:13 PM

Well the first red flag was "double or more the economy".

It didn't get any better after that.

Christ 08-24-2009 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 123436)
I've already made my decision.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...lflaughing.gif

That energy used to compress springs, minus friction, is largely recovered when the springs decompress.

I don't think this is correct, Frank - the valve stems don't act on the cam to keep it in motion, the springs only act as a way to keep the valves seated and closed unless the cam is acting on them. This is part of the reason that solenoid engines are so much more efficient (not by any means 50%) than cam driven engines.

dcb 08-24-2009 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim whitmer (Post 123468)
why are some of you guys so nasty and negitive ?

I am again asking you a direct question, what is the patent number?

jim whitmer 08-24-2009 09:13 PM

alternating valve engine
 
You are asking me a direct question ? I'll give you a direct answer...none of your business...now leave me alone....I got on this foreum to share some things, not ask for opinions or request debates.....leave me alone...just as soon as I can figure out how to unsubscribe to this cult I'll do so.....

2000mc 08-24-2009 09:16 PM

thinking i might have to convert my engine

but think about it, going from 150lb to 15lb is only a 90% reduction. what a waste!!!

thats why 2 strokes have the best powerbands, no valve springs...

in addition, i found this product to further enhance my efficiency and performance Piston Return Spring - $14.99 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!
KaleCoAuto piston return springs FORCE the pistons back into the motor, no longer relying on gravity! This effectively increases your revs, horsepower, and peak torque!

MadisonMPG 08-24-2009 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim whitmer (Post 123479)
You are asking me a direct question ? I'll give you a direct answer...none of your business...now leave me alone....I got on this foreum to share some things, not ask for opinions or request debates.....leave me alone...just as soon as I can figure out how to unsubscribe to this cult I'll do so.....

Facts Jim, facts.

Christ 08-24-2009 10:43 PM

That's thinkin' wif yer dipstick, Jimmy!

Sorry to see you go... when you man up and come back, be sure to PM me, so I don't miss the thread.

Mustang Dave 08-24-2009 10:52 PM

Jim, you're not related to Dave, are you?
I didn't think so.

dcb 08-24-2009 11:59 PM

I tried to do some figuring on the losses to the reciprocating mass of the valves, not sure how good I did but it came out to about .05 hp at 5000 rpm on a v8.

Pretty sure that doesn't account for doubling mpg.

And if that is $4mil in tax money, Jim damn well should be discussing it in public, IMHO. I'll make it my business.

2000mc 08-25-2009 12:20 AM

think i'll wait for a large scale version of these anyway

Camless 4 Stroke Cycle I.C. Engines with Solenoid Operated Valves.
index

dcb 08-25-2009 12:25 AM

Sure, if the valves take that little energy (comparatively) to open and close then let a computer control them and ditch the throttle.

SVOboy 08-25-2009 12:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Figured I'd post this just for fun. Evidently it's for sale "REAL CHEAP"

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1251174442

Good reading for any cult member

Frank Lee 08-25-2009 12:33 AM

Quote:

Common Misconception:
Many people mistakenly think that using higher seat pressures causes a reduction in the horsepower delivered to the flywheel because higher seat pressures (and also higher spring rates required for high performance) require horsepower to compress the springs. This thinking is simply incomplete! For every valve that is opening and its valve spring being compressed, another valve is closing and its valve spring is expanding. This expansion returns the energy to the valve train and the engine. This results in a net power loss of "0" hp. Many engineering texts refer to this as the "regenerative characteristic" of the valve train. Recent tests at Crane have shown no horsepower loss on a hydraulic roller equipped engine when changing the seat pressure from 135# to 165#. Power actually improved significantly at top end, probably due to better control of the relatively heavy valves in the engine.
Crane Cams

The Crane Cam boys have forgotten more about valvetrains than the rest of us will ever know.

dcb 08-25-2009 12:42 AM

unh... the patent number mentioned in that pdf is for something completely different, from like 1979?!?

Temperature actuated foundation ventilator - Patent 4290554

2000mc 08-25-2009 01:10 AM

The Whitmer 8 Cycle Engine uses only only one of the existing two intake valves opening and closing during the first two cycles and only only one of the existing two exhaust valves opening and closing during the next two cycles

so you leave an intake valve open for 2cycles.... wouldnt the second cycle be the piston moving up, pushing the air back out?

SVOboy 08-25-2009 01:12 AM

I think the concept is just that of a 4-cycle VTEC-E system except it alternates which valve is open, no that they're open longer.

2000mc 08-25-2009 01:21 AM

but then the individual valve would have to move just as fast, but only every other time

i thought he was trying to move the valves at half speed

SVOboy 08-25-2009 01:26 AM

I think he's just confusing the issue by saying they move half the speed instead of saying half the frequency

2000mc 08-25-2009 01:32 AM

why wouldnt you need normal springs then, light springs might not exactly float, but they wouldnt close when they should

2000mc 08-25-2009 01:32 AM

oh wait... maybe hes an idiot



^ that wasnt very nice

Frank Lee 08-25-2009 01:43 AM

Quote:

jim whitmer

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: oklahoma city
GT40: former lola gt
Posts: 1 lola gt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm new to your forum. I'm the former owner of lola gt #002. purchased it from alf francis in the early 1980's. I'm also the sole inventor of the WHITMER ALTERNATING VALVE ENGINE that will near double the rpm capability of your race engine or near double the fuel milage of a small or medium sized passenger car. Could I build one for your gt 40 ?
Jah, I'll take one or three.

2000mc 08-25-2009 01:46 AM

just scammin for capital to build theoretical engines...... whats wrong with that?

pgfpro 08-25-2009 01:53 AM

Cool I'm part of a cult!!!

One dream full filled.

Frank Lee 08-25-2009 02:08 AM

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...51_hailing.gif

markweatherill 08-25-2009 07:33 AM

The concept is flawed.
Jim, the valve overlap would be such that the invention might as well be an engine with no valves.

Bicycle Bob 08-25-2009 09:42 AM

I got the download from Jim, and I hinted that his Patent agent might be taking advantage of him. There was not even a rationale for using the valves alternately, instead of leaving one closed. I havn't heard back from him.

Frank Lee 08-25-2009 04:28 PM

What is the concept?

None of the claims made any sense. None.

For example, double the rpm? The valvetrain isn't the only limiting factor. I'm not gonna be able to rev my Tempo to 13 grand no matter what I do to the valvetrain because the mass of the rotating assembly becomes a limiting factor long before then. High rpm engines are able to do so cuz they are designed to, not by accident.


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