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-   -   Ammonia as carbon-free fuel (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ammonia-carbon-free-fuel-28346.html)

Frank Lee 03-03-2014 02:20 PM

Ammonia as carbon-free fuel
 
Is the future of clean energy in the janitor's closet? - CSMonitor.com

gone-ot 03-03-2014 02:29 PM

It's ironic you bring this up, because I recall reading a science-fiction story--many, many, years ago--about a planet where oxygen was "fuel" for spacecraft (and crew) because the planet's atmosphere was 'azine' (ammonia: NH3).

justme1969 03-03-2014 02:39 PM

SDS nh3
 
FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS:
The minimum ignition energy for ammonia is very high. It is approximately 500 times greater than the energy
required for igniting hydrocarbons and 1000 to 10,000 times greater than that required for hydrogen.


Well we have got Proven hydrogen burners so what if its a long shot.

Frank Lee 03-03-2014 02:54 PM

Sounds like a diesel "spark plug" would be just the ticket.

justme1969 03-03-2014 03:04 PM

the sad part is
 
this came from a legal document...
----1000 to 10,000 -----times greater than that required for hydrogen.

That sure is a spread how can they list that?

Mabe it needs to be added to the horse shoes and hand grenades column??

gone-ot 03-03-2014 03:17 PM

...by the numbers:

............Min......Auto
............Ign......Ign.
............Energy...Temp.
------------------------------
Hydrogen...0.016mJ...500-571ºC
Gasoline......30mJ...246-280ºC
Ammonia......680mJ...651ºC

RobertISaar 03-03-2014 05:14 PM

yeah, super-high static compression ratios(even in the diesel world) and compression ignition looks like the only possible way to get it burning reliably.

gone-ot 03-03-2014 09:15 PM

...and, at those CR's the oxides-of-nitrogen would be horrendous.

oil pan 4 03-04-2014 11:25 AM

Making enough ammonia to meet agricultural and motor fuel with out natural gas is not going to happen for quite a long time.

I agree, the diesel spark plug would be the ticket (ammonia intake fumigation of a diesel engine).

justme1969 03-04-2014 11:58 AM

Ok so lets digress
 
Ammonia out.
Carbon based fuels running out.
Hydrogen usefull but not feasible.
Wind and solar is same but better just dont talk about the amount of carbon based fuels used to manufacture and maintain.
Geo thermal is very similar yet again different too in its quantifications.
Has anyone talked about the Vast Lakes of frozen Methane under the sea and also under polar caps?
It is supposed to be one of our end all situations as global warming causes melting and fracking even now it has been implied to be already started.
Why wait till later lets use it now and save carbon based fuels for thier own special purpose.

gone-ot 03-04-2014 01:57 PM

...last I heard, "feet" still worked (wink,wink).

RedDevil 03-23-2019 09:02 AM

Raise from the dead, ye olde thread!
While ammonia has a lot of potential as a fuel, the primary problem is that its production is relatively inefficient.

Or should I say, was...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/22...ity-of-aarhus/
Quote:

“We have a particularly effective technology here at Foulum [Denmark] that enables us to make ammonia exclusively from electricity from certified wind turbines, water and air. The method is far more energy-efficient than conventional ammonia production, which today accounts for as much as 1% of the world’s total energy consumption.”
It can now effectively be used in cars like this ammonia powered Toyota Mirai.
Forget plain hydrogen - ammonia is the future?

https://revolution-green.com/wp-cont...2.30.18-PM.png
Ammonia is also dense enough to be practical as a shipping fuel. Cool it below -40 degrees, then it won't boil under atmospheric pressure; a ships ammonia tank would need an insulating layer, but that's not prohibitive.

But even if it wouldn't find its way as a fuel, if only the 1% of global energy consumption needed to produce it for current purposes (fertilizer, paint, chemical processing, ...) can go down substantially that already is a big thing.

oil pan 4 03-23-2019 11:17 AM

The most efficient way to produce ammonia right now is from natural gas.
If there was a cheaper more efficient way to make ammonia the petrochemical industry would be all over it since they have the bank and the current demand to make it happen.

Taylor95 03-23-2019 11:24 AM

Here's a crazy thought I just had:
Haha why not recycle urine and convert urea into ammonia? That would sure provide a substantial amount of ammonia for something. However, I'm sure the cost would be much higher than whatever you would get for it...

RedDevil 03-23-2019 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 594450)
The most efficient way to produce ammonia right now is from natural gas.
If there was a cheaper more efficient way to make ammonia the petrochemical industry would be all over it since they have the bank and the current demand to make it happen.

If the claims Lars Ditlev Mørck Ottosen makes are true this is the breakthrough they've been waiting for and things will move fast.

RedDevil 03-23-2019 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor95 (Post 594451)
Here's a crazy thought I just had:
Haha why not recycle urine and convert urea into ammonia? That would sure provide a substantial amount of ammonia for something. However, I'm sure the cost would be much higher than whatever you would get for it...

Urea is produced on an industrial scale from ammonia and carbon dioxide to be used as fertilizer. Soil bacteria reverse the reaction, providing ammonia as needed.
There is no practical use case for converting urea to ammonia (other than soil bacteria passing nutrients) that I know of.

aerohead 03-27-2019 10:54 AM

methane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justme1969 (Post 413680)
Ammonia out.
Carbon based fuels running out.
Hydrogen usefull but not feasible.
Wind and solar is same but better just dont talk about the amount of carbon based fuels used to manufacture and maintain.
Geo thermal is very similar yet again different too in its quantifications.
Has anyone talked about the Vast Lakes of frozen Methane under the sea and also under polar caps?
It is supposed to be one of our end all situations as global warming causes melting and fracking even now it has been implied to be already started.
Why wait till later lets use it now and save carbon based fuels for thier own special purpose.

The climate scientists recommend transitioning away from all fossil-fuel combustion,plus removing existing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere,so methane as a fuel might be a hard sell.Unless we can master carbon sequestration.

aerohead 03-27-2019 11:19 AM

ammonia lethality
 
Anhydrous ammonia is lethal @ 5,000 ppm and 5-minutes exposure.The permissible limit is 25 ppm.
Overturned tanker trucks or rail cars could be potentially disastrous.
Same for an anhydrous ammonia pipeline.
There have been anhydrous ammonia explosions.
Ammonia is highly toxic,volatile,can blind,suffocate,burn,and kill.
While lighter than air,in the presence of atmospheric moisture (humidity)becomes heavier than air,settles,and displaces oxygen.
The liability of using ammonia as a motor fuel might scare off investors.Don't know.:confused:


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