Another one goes in the dustbin of EV history
 

At least their founders have integrity and in the long run, will definitely comeback in the near future.
Aptera refunding all deposits for its ultra efficient three-wheeler

...uh, 'sad' new automotive saying?: "...WIN one, LOSE too..."

botsapper -

That's a shame. They didn't even have a chance to compete in the marketplace (yet?). Would have made an uber-commuter.

CarloSW2

But they didn't say that they were not going to build the car, they said that it was a book keeping issue that was not working out and that they were still getting new investors, so altho I'm sure that this was not great for their stock prices it did not sound like they as a company were going under.

...since *when* have profit-makers willingly given money back?

...sounds like something the gov't SCC people might have caused to happen.

Maybe I'm the only one who read the link.
But most of the time when you make a deposit the money is put in to holding, so that money was never in the hands of Aptera, it was in the hands of their credit card prossesing company and they tend to charge large amounts of money for things that should be really simple, so I could see this move as being as simple as that they didn't want to pay extra fees, because I'm sure that the credit card company is the only one who has made a profit yet.
If it was a matter of shutting down, there would be little reason to give anything back to anyone, people who put deposits down would be the last on the list when it comes to debt collection.

Good riddance.

Why? Anything besides mentally challenged subjective opinions to offer?

Based on their performance at the X-prize, they had some major problems to solve. So they probably need some additional time to get ready for prime-time.

I can't shake the feeling they were more about raising (and spending on themselves) investment capital than building vehicles. And my mental challenges don't have anything to do with that (I think....).

I've been getting Aptera email updates... just got one that has some B.S. story about NOW "realizing certain things about the economics/logistics of building vehicles in CA" and now they're looking at eastern U.S. sites. Give me a freeking break. :rolleyes:

That is reasonable, was expecting tj to say to was too ugly or something useless.

Yes plenty of good reasons, had some serious management issues too, didn't they? http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...era-10981.html

And doors flying open during tests? arg, what a PR nightmare that must be.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post172664

Is that what you're offering?


Yeah let me know when they figure out how to build a 4 wheel vehicle with appeal beyond this forum. They did more damage to the image of EVs in the eyes of the general public than anything else. The sooner they disappear for good the better.

Ryland -

I did read the link. But it seems like more of the same. They got their hands on another 2.5 million, so I guess they can muddle along.

Frank -

Ha ha, maybe they can lease the Saturn Spring Hill plant in Tenessee.

CarloSW2

Thanks for not disappointing :)

To clarify, it is so-called "Team B" who brought the development to a screeching halt. They built 1 unit in about the last two years, while the original team built 9 or 10 in a similar time period.

The center of gravity and overall weight are the main issues.

Son, stop embarrassing yourself. Nobody is impressed.
Exactly. Nobody ever put out a mass production vehicle for 2.5m or even 10 times that.

The embarrassing thing is when you are so presumptuous as to be the self appointed keeper of what is appealing (or at least not weird) beyond this forum, or that you think this forum should be viewed as separate from the whole in matters as subjective as "taste". You should speak for yourself and not entire populations, you look like a moron when you do the latter.

Sorry for being harsh TJ, but it is like half your posts are of the "nobody will buy that" variety. Problem is that is sort of self-fulfilling, people, at least in part, buy what the marketing engines tell them to buy and you are, with only the seat of your pants, campaigning against options based solely on matters of taste. Form follows function, except if you are a flibbertigibbet, in which case who cares what your opinion is?

I watched the entire X-Prize contest on a recent flight. Seems like the Tango Commuter Cars - The Tango, ultra-narrow electric car for commuting; 0-60 in 4 seconds

Outperformed most of the field, except for not making the 100 miles range. But to be fair, the tango could out accelerated most cars on the road.
I'm sure they could produce a FE model of the Tango that would win every catagory in the X prize contest.

Amazingly the Tango did not have a pit crew, just the owner/inventor one man show. Other teams spent millions, and hired professional drivers for the contest.

they can save a lot and hire me... LOL

..the TANGO reminds me of a fiberglass-enclosed forklift, without the the lift.

Instability? go four wheels. Maybe there could be a dead-cat bounce.
(bad economy news analogy)

Aptera:

How long have they been at it?

What have they got to show for it?

How much money has been taken in?

Where has it gone?

Frank -

It did go to the future. In the latest Star Trek movie you can see one putter by at Star Fleet Academy :

Real Electric Car Featured in Star Trek Movie | LiveScience

http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/...-star-trek.jpg
Now here is the very very very big problem with it. The latest movie is an alternate universe where Vulcan is destroyed. That cannot stand. Once this "young character" sub-franchise wears out it's welcome, the last movie (I predict!) will restore the Trek universe to the normal time stream and Vulcan will NOT have been destroyed. Therefore, it will never have happened, sic transit the Aptera will *not* have made it to the future.

CarloSW2

Trying to build anything like a car in California is a recipe for failure. The cost of living there is outrageous. There is also ridiculous amount of regulation on business. In an industrial setting there is more paper work and red tape tracking the purchase and owning paint spray guns than if a company were to buy a machine gun.

I can't say I'm sorry to see Aptera go. The fact that they were trying to pass off their car as safe while seeking exemptions from federal crash test safety standards is appalling.

CA is the most expensive place in the world to manufacture. They have done a very good job of making the state undesirable and unreasonably expensive for industry. Taxes, real estate, energy, state regulations, it's all WAY more costly than ANY other state. Any company is very smart to think twice about starting production there. Many established companies are also moving else ware to save costs. It's not BS, it's just the way it is.

6 months to take concept to production is unrealistic for most any product, especially something as complex as a car. This type of underestimation is VERY common and can be costly. I hope they can keep it together. It sounds like they are moving forward.

Honestly, who IS going to buy a 3-wheeler with restrictions, outside of niches like ecomodder ?

What people remember from 3 wheelers is they tip over, and while you can reduce that tendency, the laws of physics haven't changed since the heyday of Reliant and Morgan, so it's never ever going to be as stable as a 4 wheeler.

Add the electric propulsion, including the changed way to fill up, the shape, the limited access into the vehicle, and you have a bunch of weird features that differentiate it a lot from what people see as a car.

It'll be a challenge to get people to accept electric cars.
It could very well be an unsurmountable challenge to get them to (widely) accept anything like the Aptera.

Except that people were standing in line to buy it. All they had to do was give up on the retarded notion that they were going make it perfect and call it good enough(tm) at some point.

People who have a burning desire to spend a day at DMV getting a motorcycle license.

I have to tap +1. In the UK we have had a load of 3 wheelers a lot of them made in my home town of Preston (Lawrie Bond designed a lot of them including the Bond Bug).

This is a Bond Minicar - the 2 stroke motorbike engine was mounted with the front wheel pulling the car along - like a road going bumper car.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_red_1959.jpg

The big issue with these was the tricycle layout - the 3rd wheel was at the front. This made them unstable and, well, useless really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=130OVZcMEcA

At the same time other 3 wheelers from overseas had the 3rd wheel at the back so the two wheels at the front with the most work to do (steering and braking) were at the front.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Iso_Isetta.jpg

But lets me honest here, they were only bought as long as the supply of proper cars was restricted. As soon as Europe started to make 4 wheeled cars, including economy and cheap cars like the 2CV or original Fiat 500, Renault 4CV etc. these cars vanished asap.

They had a brief respite during the various oil crisis that we had between WW2 and the 1970s but they also died quickly when mainstream manufacturers caught up.

A few cars that killed them:

http://www.speedyreg.co.uk/blogs/wp-...ustin_Mini.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...enault_4-3.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...remefarben.jpg

http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/images/vespa400-00.jpg

If you could have a full sized car for the same money and more or less have the same FE why bother with the problems of 3 wheels ?

Coming right up to date even if Aptera get going again somewhere else, even China, why bother ? If GM USA decided to import or make the Corsa in the US as a modern day Metro, or Ford imported the KA or Nissan the Pixo or Suzuki the Alto (both the latter 2 from India) then the Aptera is dead.

Just as dead as the Tucker or any other low volume high dream machine you could think of.

I think the point of the Aptera was to make a car using Morelli's shape for a body of minimum drag, thereby maximizing the mileage potential. While other cars may get "good" mileage, they won't get as much as an Aptera could, theoretically.

...anybody else think this car (below) reminds them of the early Corvair, only taller?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...remefarben.jpg

NSU Prinz 4's designer, Claus Luthe, was 'convinced' by NSU management to make changes to the design...after they visited the US and saw the Chevy Corvair.

botsapper -

I have a nice little history on the Corvair that states this very thing. I'll post the blurb when I get a chance.

CarloSW2

Any podunk welding shop can crank out trikes, and they are- motorcycle-trike conversions.

Aptera is a trike. It doesn't need to meet all the Fed standards for cars; in the eyes of the Feds it is a motorcycle. It should be relatively a piece of cake to put a new motorcycle on the road. Even the dummies up the road at Polaris did it. :rolleyes:

Trike conversions seem to enjoy healthy sales in spite of their ridiculous pricing.

Isn't there lots of road-going stuff that gets built there? Off the top of my head I think of Zero electric motorcycles... :confused:

Re: NSU, Corvair: There was one of those for sale nearby back in the day exactly like the pic, color and all... OH how I lusted after it!!! But coming fresh off the Spitfire owning experience (pre-internet days) I decided I did not need another FAIL in the driveway, as in 10x the difficulty in locating parts than for mainstream equipment. NOWADAYS I'd go for it!!!

I don't think delta or tadpole is the primary determinant of stability; the thing just needs to have the heavy end be the same end as the pair of wheels. Oh, and low Cg helps too.

From: Three-Wheel Vehicle Handling Characteristics:


A conventional, non-tilting three wheel car can equal the rollover resistance of a four wheel car, provided the location of the center-of-gravity (cg) is low and near the side-by-side wheels. Like a four wheel vehicle, a three-wheeler's margin of safety against rollover is determined by its L/H ratio, or the half-tread (L) in relation to the cg height (H). Unlike a four-wheeler, however, a three-wheeler's half-tread is determined by the relationship between the actual tread (distance between the side-by-side wheels) and the longitudinal location of the cg, which translates into an "effective" half-tread. The effective half-tread can be increased by placing the side-by-side wheels farther apart, by locating the cg closer to the side-by-side wheels, and to a lesser degree by increasing the wheelbase. Rollover resistance increases when the effective half-tread is increased and when the cg lowered, both of which increase the L/H ratio.



http://www.rqriley.com/images/fig-3whl.gif

Me -

Here it is :

Automobile Quarterly, Volume VIII Number 4, Summer 1970
Remember the Corvair? Here's A Look At What We Lost
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...i-number-4.jpg

CarloSW2