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Big Dave 04-02-2009 06:48 PM

Answer To An Oft-Asked Question (Who killed the EV1?)
 
Who killed the EV-1?

It was suicide. Or maybe more accurately, a birth defect.

The batteries couldn't do the job.

At Witz' End: My night with range anxiety

There's a lot of effort here to do an electric car where some very smart cookies have failed. But no matter how good a car you build, you will be betrayed by lame batteries.

SVOboy 04-02-2009 06:55 PM

Not enough people ever owned the car to poison the market on EVs, I think.

Ryland 04-03-2009 12:20 AM

Someone killed the electric car? you mean the handful of EV1's that GM made, or the thousands of EV's that are still out there? one commen comment that I get from people about my EV, an EV that was part of the largest production of EV's in the last 100 years in the US is "I thought GM crushed all the electric cars" nope, sorry, they made around 1,100 of the EV1, check out EV album, I think they said they list 14,000 vehicles on there, neither of mine are on there so I can only assume that with all the other people out there with electric vehicles as well that only a fraction of the electric cars out there are listed, and they are dead because a few are gone?

Big Dave 04-05-2009 12:55 AM

...and the range of your EV is what?

Frank Lee 04-05-2009 02:21 AM

and how much range is needed?

Big Dave 04-05-2009 09:48 AM

More than forty miles.

A heater is mandatory.

Piwoslaw 04-05-2009 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave (Post 95447)
Who killed the EV-1?

It was suicide. Or maybe more accurately, a birth defect.

Caused by abuse before, during and after pregnancy. I remember GM showing off new models of the EV1: new batteries, a hybrid version, etc. Everything that would make the car even more popular. Everything Toyota, Honda and others were able to offer when GM suddenly pulled out in a panic.

Electric Frenzy 04-05-2009 02:08 PM

I don't understand why everything has to start in CA and eventually roll out to the rest of the country IF it takes off. I know I'd instantly buy 2 apteras they day they go on public sale if I didn't have to jump through so many hoops to get one.

mcmahon.craig 04-05-2009 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave (Post 95447)
Who killed the EV-1?

It was suicide. Or maybe more accurately, a birth defect.

The batteries couldn't do the job.

So the EV1 was killed by the Ovonic NiMH batteries that, on the *experimental* Gen 2 mule, overheated and still *didn't* manage to strand some engineer after he got lost? A problem no one ever knew about because the *production* cars never had this problem?

This is like saying that recorded music would never work because Edison's wax cylinder wore out too fast. I'm not buying it.

bennelson 04-05-2009 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave (Post 95447)
But no matter how good a car you build, you will be betrayed by lame batteries.

Funny, I have 3 EV's - all are alive and well.

One of them is 32 years old.

One of them has driver AND passenger airbags and daytime running lights and passes all current standards.

Two of them are running on USED batteries.

NONE of them gets less than the equivelent of 130 MPG.

ALL of them run off renewable energy.

What's not to love? :D


Issues of range have FAR more to do with our culture than with technology. Suburbs, cars, and gasoline have a terrible co-dependent relationship.

If we had been driving electric vehicles all these years and somebody came out with gasoline cars, people would complain about how loud they are, how smelly and dirty and dangerous they are. They would never catch on!



PS: If batteries suck so much, how come everyone loves their hybrids?

Ryland 04-05-2009 08:43 PM

My EV has enough speed and range that I have my civic parked at my parents house, if it turns out that I do need it (for hauling lumper or towing a trailer) I can go get it, but just like how I don't need a truck or a van or a semi truck, there are alot of vehicles that I don't need to use every day or even once a week.

MPaulHolmes 04-06-2009 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave (Post 95840)
...and the range of your EV is what?

The range of the EV-1 with NiMH batteries at 45 mph was about 220 miles. That's enough for most in-town driving in a day. No range anxiety necessary.

roflwaffle 04-06-2009 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes (Post 95980)
The range of the EV-1 with NiMH batteries at 45 mph was about 220 miles. That's enough for most in-town driving in a day. No range anxiety necessary.

Um, clearly I need 1000 miles per fill for the .000001% of the time I need to drive 1000 miles in a day. Also, it's anatomically impossible for me to rent a car. :D

roflwaffle 04-06-2009 04:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keanu Reeves
But I couldn't risk turning off the lights or going too slow on the freeway.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1239006550

MPaulHolmes 04-06-2009 01:34 PM

That was funny. Also, in Speed 2, the boat had to go real fast, so that's another reason electric cars aren't quite ready.

rmay635703 04-06-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave (Post 95863)
More than forty miles.

A heater is mandatory.

Mine goes 50miles on a charge so long as I have one long stop in the middle aka 1hr or so for it to sit. (not charge mind you) This is traveling at 35mph or less.
My batteries have over 14k miles on them, I would guess that the original owner saying the car could do 100miles on new batteries at 35mph or less was probably accurate.

And yes I have a heater, though i would prefer to have the old little propane tank defroster that the previous owner kept.

It is not impossible to go more than 40 miles electric it just means limited speed on lead acid.

With CNT (carbon nanotube), lithium ion or other battery techs it is easily possible to exceed 40 miles as there is no peukert to mess with.

Also look at the Rav4 EV, it met your criteria.

roflwaffle 04-06-2009 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes (Post 96075)
That was funny. Also, in Speed 2, the boat had to go real fast, so that's another reason electric cars aren't quite ready.

Seriously! Until we have 100% electric container ships, I won't be able to buy my 1000hp EV Fjord Exploder that can go 3,000 miles between charges. Gosh, why can't those silly liberals understand this? :p

P.S. I should probably stop being a jackass, but I enjoy it so much. :D

Edit- When are major manufacturers going to build a heat-pump/AC instead of using AC/Resistive heating in EVs? If they use "waste" heat from the battery pack to keep the fins from icing up in cold temperatures they should be able to manage a COP of ~3 or so. The roadster for instance uses a 1500W heater that would draw about 50Wh/mile at 30mph average speed. In something like the i-MiEV, that would cut range about 20 miles off of the range. Using a heat pump would only cut about 6-7 miles off of the range, so that's definitely a big advantage.

bennelson 04-06-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave (Post 95863)
A heater is mandatory.

I was SO wrestling with how to do heat this winter in the Electro Metro.

In the end, I just set a small household electric radiator in the back seat. I set it on a timer, and the car was warm when I hopped it.

It took the power from a household plug (NOT the batteries) and was pretty comfy.

If I was driving for a little longer distance, I would just crack the window so it wouldn't fog up.

cfg83 04-06-2009 07:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
bennelson -

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennelson (Post 96138)
I was SO wrestling with how to do heat this winter in the Electro Metro.

In the end, I just set a small household electric radiator in the back seat. I set it on a timer, and the car was warm when I hopped it.

It took the power from a household plug (NOT the batteries) and was pretty comfy.

If I was driving for a little longer distance, I would just crack the window so it wouldn't fog up.

Would this have worked for you? :

Amazon.com: Pet Supply Imports - SnuggleSafe Heatpad: Kitchen & Dining
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1239061917


CarloSW2

.

NeilBlanchard 04-06-2009 09:06 PM

Hi,

I thought that the EV1 went 60-70 miles with the original lead acid batteries? It had heat.

The Aptera 2e goes at least 100 miles with the A/C (or heat) on. It may well go a lot farther than that, if they put a larger battery in it (there are hints it will be a 20kWh or even 22kWh!).

Big Dave 04-08-2009 07:06 PM

The initial link was an engineer working on the EV1 and he was sweatin’ it after 35 miles. You would think such a guy would know how far the rascal could go.

A local university was investigating electric vehicles for building maintenance tradesmen. They are looking at a Step-Van with electric drive but had to put a propane heater on them to be able to drive them in the Midwest winters. This is a good, if limited niche, for electrics. These trucks sit most of the day, but they need a gas or diesel “parts-runner” vehicle back at the shop.

When somebody invents a righteous battery, the electric car will take over quickly. Until then, it is doomed to limited niches.

MPaulHolmes 04-08-2009 07:29 PM

Well, if he was going 45 miles per hour, then the range was 220 miles with the NiMH batteries. I'm no mathematician, but 35 miles < 220 miles. I'd start sweating at maybe 200 miles.


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