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Old 09-24-2021, 04:02 PM   #281 (permalink)
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This is the vehicle I was referring to: 2014-volkswagen XL1, a hybrid electric car. Extremely well designed but intentionally poorly executed!


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Old 09-24-2021, 05:44 PM   #282 (permalink)
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weight............. efficiency

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Originally Posted by Accordowner View Post
Aptera is not necessarily the best design for an ultra efficient, lightweight and functional vehicle we have seen come and then vaporize! Some years back we had the Volkswagen L1 and its successor XL1. These cars were astonishingly efficient, functional but not so outlandishly large and weird looking as this Aptera. In the case of XL1 it was a planned vaporware because it was priced at around $150,000! Reason being; they had to use lots of exotic and expensive material like carbon fiber throughout! This was done to make the vehicle lightweight. But this was obviously a BS made up for the lay public who have no knowledge of the fact that subtle weight savings play a very small part in improving efficiency!
I suspect that Volkswagen was looking at the European and EPA Urban driving schedules, and their implications with respect to the mass of the vehicle. Especially the EPA's, where the 'CITY' dynamometer data constitutes 55% of the Combined mpg.
And that mass consideration certainly wouldn't be unwelcome, considering the HWY cycle's rolling resistance contribution, discounted as it may be.
That said, I would have stamped them out of steel, en masse, lowered my mpg expectation to 115-mpg, and sold them in volume by the hundreds of thousands, at a modest margin for $12,000, done a public good, and made a few nickels to rub together.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:05 PM   #283 (permalink)
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Why do people keep referencing this douche's videos as authoritative source of engineering knowledge!!?? In one of his videos, this dope says that putting an ICE car in neutral while driving is bad for the car!!!???
Why do people take a statement written in the context as applying to the general public, not even wait to see why the statement was made, and then want to compare it to their own niche use case that has nothing to do with the point in the video?

Of course you can benefit in certain vehicles from shifting into neutral. But can it be bad for the car? I know a guy who wrecked more than one transmission because he would shift into neutral and coast down long mountain passes with the engine off. (Most automatics and some manuals have a lubrication pump that only pumps when the engine is turning).

I also know of someone who went off the side of a mountain pass and killed several of his passengers because he was coasting down the hill in neutral and lost his brakes. (Lack of engine braking).

One other valid point this guy makes is that some engines will cut fuel during deceleration. Seeing how most people who are trying to slow down or stop are also applying the brake at the same time it makes more sense to leave the vehicle in gear, which cuts off fuel, maybe even downshifting a gear or two, and slow down that way instead of shifting into neutral and having the engine idle as you use up more of your brakes because you think you're doing your car a favor. ('You" referring to the general public).

But that doesn't apply to me in my Hybrids that shut the engine off while decelerating. Obviously I can get better fuel mileage if I pulse and glide by shutting off the engine and coasting in neutral until my speed comes down enough to merit accelerating again. So he didn't think of me and mention my roadrage inducing driving technique. Should I be offended?
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Old 09-25-2021, 03:23 PM   #284 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
Why do people take a statement written in the context as applying to the general public, not even wait to see why the statement was made, and then want to compare it to their own niche use case that has nothing to do with the point in the video?

Of course you can benefit in certain vehicles from shifting into neutral. But can it be bad for the car? I know a guy who wrecked more than one transmission because he would shift into neutral and coast down long mountain passes with the engine off. (Most automatics and some manuals have a lubrication pump that only pumps when the engine is turning).

I also know of someone who went off the side of a mountain pass and killed several of his passengers because he was coasting down the hill in neutral and lost his brakes. (Lack of engine braking).

One other valid point this guy makes is that some engines will cut fuel during deceleration. Seeing how most people who are trying to slow down or stop are also applying the brake at the same time it makes more sense to leave the vehicle in gear, which cuts off fuel, maybe even downshifting a gear or two, and slow down that way instead of shifting into neutral and having the engine idle as you use up more of your brakes because you think you're doing your car a favor. ('You" referring to the general public).

But that doesn't apply to me in my Hybrids that shut the engine off while decelerating. Obviously I can get better fuel mileage if I pulse and glide by shutting off the engine and coasting in neutral until my speed comes down enough to merit accelerating again. So he didn't think of me and mention my roadrage inducing driving technique. Should I be offended?
He wasn't saying that for when the car engine was shut down. He was saying that putting the car in neutral in downhill situations was not good period!
I understand your fear of running in neutral while you have the engine shut off; I know that personally; my car's steering would lock up if did such a foolish thing! and I'm sure other vehicle can react in even more severe ways!
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Old 09-26-2021, 12:02 AM   #285 (permalink)
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I'd have to see it for myself to know what he was talking about. I doubt that the point of the video was about how transmissions and engines are blowing up all over the place because people are shifting them into neutral.

But still, the majority of (if not all) owner's manuals also recommend against shifting into neutral even with the engine on. In most places it's also illegal. The guy I knew that went over the edge of the pass also had his engine on. It's also more possible to shift into Reverse or Park while in motion if your average driver shifts into neutral all the time. And if you're braking anyway, there's no point in shifting into neutral and leaving the engine on at the same time since you'll use more fuel (and brake pads).

He could have been referring to any or all of these scenarios as being "bad."
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Old 10-05-2021, 05:10 PM   #286 (permalink)
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A LOT of interesting info in this one.

65%F 35%R weight bias. Powdered silicon cells that can flex over compound curves and be broken and still put out power (*SNAP* in the video). 2170 cells. Looks like that 5'7" lady might be about as tall a person as could lay out in the tent. Same drag as pushing a 1' cube down the highway... I assume that means the CdA is approximately 1sqft?
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Old 10-05-2021, 06:00 PM   #287 (permalink)
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Same drag as pushing a 1' cube down the highway... I assume that means the CdA is approximately 1sqft?
To a first approximation, it depends on the orientation of the cube. Face on, the Cd is 1.05, edge on it's 0.80.
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Old 10-05-2021, 07:33 PM   #288 (permalink)
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Instead of a cube, they probably meant the flat plate equivalent for the frontal area.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:44 PM   #289 (permalink)
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Jay Leno did a segment on the Aptera Alpha. Aptera Alpha Development Vehicle | Jay Leno's Garage

Front fenders need harmonic dampers like the 2CV.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:20 PM   #290 (permalink)
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I'm sure the shape is optimized for forward travel, but how is it in crosswinds?

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