best models for fuel efficiency? (best platforms for ecomodding?)
 

So, apparently the Geo Metro and the civic hatchback are good options for ecomodding. What are some other models that are ideal candidates for this?

I'd like to do an EV conversion as well, but I think I'd like to focus on optimizing the aerodynamics and overall efficiency of the car before i make the jump to electric (if I even do at all).

I ask because I'm having a hard time finding a geo metro or civic hatchback for sale locally and I want to be aware of all my options.

The Gen I Insight is pretty good, too... if you can find one.

You should be able to look at the general shape of the car and get an idea if it gets better MPG. Any small car with a good engine should be able to get high MPG with aero mods.

I know several people here go for the lean burn engines, so might be a good thing to try to get.

Finally, try to find a manual, by design they are around 10% more efficent than typical autos.

Never buy a car that you will hate, if you dis like the car, when it breaks you won't want to fix it and will probably be looking for another. Target one you can keep for a long time that has a good rep for being reliable (Honda, Toyota, etc)

Researching common car problems can give ideas about the car as well like Corollas using quite a bit of oil between oil changes (93-97 issue).

Newer models?
 

Many of the models I've seen people get great mileage with are late 80's, early 90's. Do I need to restrict myself to those? I currently have a 2001 Sentra GXE (manual transmission), which apparently has a curb weight of 2,513 lb.

Is this something I could work with, or do I need to get something older and lighter?

I don't want to drop $5k on modding or conversions.

I used to have a '01 accent, and I regularly got upwards of 40mpg with it with no mods and only a little hypermiling, so anything under 40mpg is not "high gas mileage" in my mind.

ps2fixer Quote
Never buy a car that you will hate, if you dis like the car, when it breaks you won't want to fix it and will probably be looking for another. Target one you can keep for a long time that has a good rep for being reliable (Honda, Toyota, etc)

Researching common car problems can give ideas about the car as well "


I agree totally with ps2fixer. I vote for an older manual trans. car with no rust EVER. Some of these newer automatics are going to cost a clean fortune to fix.

look for mid-late 90's Toyota, Honda manual gear box. They are cheap, easy to find, and cheap to maintain.

Except the easy to find part, at least in my area, the manuals (2 that I found vs 40+ autos) were $500+ higher priced compared to the autos and were often in worse shape or have 300k+ miles. Michigan salt eats cars alive, if they sit they rust out FASTER, so not many good shape cars with low miles :(.


For Toyotas, aim for 93-2001 corollas, or the larger 92-99 camry (newer is better mpg via EPA ratings). There is a member on this site with a manual 1.6L corolla that gets over 60mpg with mods, with my auto corolla with a 1.8L and less mods I'm getting around 45mpg for my current tank. By the way..... the corollas are rated under 30mpg average!

early 80s VW rabbits did very well on gas/diesel
any honda civic should pull good mpg
personally I would stay clear of dodge or Chrysler, my own personal preference (my dad is a auto tech, just to show my view point a little). Having said that I heard Neons are fairly reliable but no personal experience.

Here is a list I was studying before I got my corolla... I was going for a 1981-1982 VW Caddy (rabbit pickup) diesel.

Super Cheap High MPG Cars: 1978-1981 | MPGomatic

Car pictured (left) Subaru Justy, Toyota Starlet, '78-80 Ford Fiesta, Ford/Merc Exp/Lync my diesel Monza (for sale section) I might even deliver. Ford Escorts,
Old Horizon/ Omni, '80's Dodge Charger/Rampage PU

Just about any of these with a manual shift could return at least 40mpg, and some up near 50mpg BEFORE mods!!!

I have heard for a full on electric, that the Fiero's accept the weight of all the batteries
very well, and at least the bodies won't rust.

The stock 2.5 w a 4-5spd. should return up to 32-34mpg highway.

light weight and small frontal area (narrow and short car).

justy would be good.

i'm going to try a suburban. need it to hall my lady and 5 teenagers.

Just out of curiosity, what mileage are you getting with your Sentra? I have to imagine that, just with some basic modifications and hypermiling, you could get 40 mpg. I think it would certainly be better than what you'd need to spend in order to get a car that could do better.

Well I didn't see where he was from. And I can see where you got your issues
finding a good runner. This part of Texas we don't even own salt trucks. The City's idea of de-icing was to put down sand :confused: Plus being this close the Mexico with cash money, little Spanish, case of bud lite. you can easily spend weeks look at the used car dealers.

Thats Me !!!! YAY ( I hope ) I got 94 1.6l Corolla 60 day average 59.8mpg and life time of 57mpg. Love the part of the states...flat and open. Talk to me about mid Aug when its about 110 and 60% humidity and I might tell you something different.

@deathtrain

I can only go by experence...

90 Olds Cutlass Ciera (3.3L) *Died due to rusted out 101k miles*
Pontiac 94 Grand Am (2.5L I think) *Engine died, over heated on highway badly and rusted out pretty bad ~160k*
94 Ford Ranger (2.3L) *Fair body, cab corners rusted out, bad pri coil, rear leaf spring brackets rusted apart from frame, bad trans, and when changed couldn't get clutch system to bleed out ~220k*
85 GMC S-15 (2.8L) *Still have it as a yard buggie, rusted to hell, I'm told engine/trans/transfer case were rebuilt ~25k miles ago, not sure what it has total atm*
92 Chevy Astro Van (4.3L) *$100 special, was ment for the scrap yard, little rust, several doors didn't work (i fixed), ign cylender liked to get stuck on (fixed), ign system needed fixing (normal), went the the scrap yard because no one would give $450 for a van that drove well and ran well... best offer was $350, scrap yard gave over $500 :) something like 230k miles*

All my life before them my family always owned American cars, some good, some bad. Went to scrap out a 92 corolla that was flipped into a ditch with 180k miles that ran and drove yet (body trashed) and it drove the BEST compared to all the other cars I ever owned or drove. Went to buy a parts car, and mis read the listing... bought 2 92 Camry with 352k and 387k with 0 rust except a damaged fender and both ran well yet. Stuck with the Camry for a while, and now researching and looking at corollas, they are nearly as good.

Summary...

Camrys have a ton of features that make them a really nice car, ride great, and go for ever (can hit 350-500k pretty easy) only down side is mpg is around 26-28.

Corollas I view as a low end Camry, features are removed, simpler built some what, and ride not as well. My research suggests they last 250-350k pretty easy, not many go over that with orig engine/trans. It gets probably around 34-36 with out mods driving fairly easy (how I use to drive prior to this site/scan gauge).


Only other really good experience I have witnessed with American made is the late 60s to early 70s olds 350 and 455 engines (v8s), ran well, lots of torque, and lasted very well (my cuz's truck has 300k+ and has out-lived 3 trucks bodies, a couple wrecks, and 3 or 4 transmissions.). MPG is crap vs small cars, but when one is in a truck, it gets about the same as a car.


Kind of went off topic a tiny bit, but is semi related.

Sentra Gas Mileage
 

I currently get up to 32MPG. I already take the path less traveled, though it's a bit hilly - hills are impossible to avoid in East TN, though.

Given the trade value of my vehicle currently, I'm pretty sure I could do an even trade for a Geo Metro with no out of pocket expenses. Granted, I would also likely have a whole lot less longevity on the engine, and an EV conversion is probably going to cost $5k in batteries alone.

Don't trade it in...

Depending how your finances are, either collect enough cash or get a personal loan. Find the car you want and buy it. Get it all set for the road, and drive it. After you know the car has no problems, sell your old car on craigslist. Pay off loan with the money you received.

If you have something else to drive, you could sell the car first, then buy the better MPG one.

As always, it is your choice, dealers would never buy a car if they plan on loosing money on the deal, they are in business to make money, just like any other business.

Good luck at which ever way you go with this.

I discussed this on another forum with a guy that apparently does EV conversions for a living. While there is a pretty significant weight difference between the Metro and the E15 Sentra, the difference in CDA is negligible. Also, I'm sure a good portion of the weight difference is the size of the engine since we're comparing a 1.0L to a 1.8L.

I've Ordered an Ultragauge, and I've begun a bit of hypermiling. I have no doubt I can get to 40MPG, but I won't be satisfied till I'm in excess of 60MPG, which undoubtedly will require some aeromodding. My first step will be installing an engine kill switch. Next will be disabling power steering and maybe even yanking out the compressor and other A/C giblets. I owned a car for 5yrs that came from the factory w/o A/C, so I doubt I'll miss it.
I'll eventually follow some of blownb310's techniques in aeromodding, although I'll probably improve on the kammback.

Before making the engine kill switch, check how easy your car will DFCO which basically would do the same thing automatically. The Ultragauge or a scangauge can show if your car can DFCO and how long/hard it is to keep it in that mode. My camry I basically never feel it since it does not happen very often, and first time driving my corolla, it was a world of difference, a light off the gas and it cuts fuel off.

The biggest gain so far for me is driving 45mph instead of 60 on back roads (95% of my driving). Lots of aero mods and improve how you drive, and you might hit the 60mpg mark. It should be a good challenge :).

No, it doesn't.

DFCO cuts the fuel, but then you're engine braking.
Which is still a form of braking, and scrubbing off your kinetic energy a lot faster than coasting in neutral would.

Engine kill switches are used to kill the engine while in neutral, so it doesn't run when coasting.

new ultra gauge
 

I just got my ultra gauge Monday. So far, it says I'm averaging between 63 & 65 mpg. I've been doing the p& g thing without cutting the engine so far. I topped off the tank this morning so I can validate this on my way home.

I think it probably does DFCO pretty well, cos when I'm coasting in neutral, the gallons per hour drops down to between .2 and .1 (.2 in the morning and .1 in the afternoon)

Validated!
Drove 28 miles between fillups. There was a bit of gas still in the pump at the second gas station, so you might say this wasn't a clean test, but even with a second click, the most I could get in the tank was .345 gallons. I'll be a little more impressed if I keep this up through a whole tank. Also, I tried cutting the engine while coasting the rest of the way home ~15mi, and it didn't seem to have a noticeable impact on the average mpg, so I think I'm going to keep leaving my engine running from now on.

I think cutting the engine would make an alternator delete a bit more problematic as well. After I put in a deep cycle battery, I'm starting out with an alternator disable switch before i take it out completely.

Interesting results, 28 miles on 0.345 gal is over 80mpg, so i'm sure there is some room for error saying 60mpg, but seems pretty high. What mods have you done to the car besides how you drive it? I'm always looking for tips that work :).

Well, there was already some fuel coming out of the pump handle before I actually started pumping - probably left over from where the last person was pumping - that wasn't counted in the .345. It was a tiny amount, but possibly as much as .09 gallons - that would bring the mpg to a bit over 64mpg.

I'll need a larger sample size to get a more accurate picture. I just wanted to make sure that 60mpg was in the ballpark and I wasn't actually just getting a little over the usual 32mpg. When I hit empty and fill up again, I'll have a more accurate figure.

No mods just yet, which makes me very excited about the potential. Pretty much all I'm doing is P&G, not cutting the engine. Also, when I accelerate, I try to modulate the pedal just right to maximize the instant mpg, which I can usually get about 35mpg if I'm not going up a steep incline.

I think my biggest advantage is that my route to and from work is lightly traveled and has very few stops, so traffic is usually a non-issue.
I have a couple mods planned for this weekend. Can't wait to see how much they improve my numbers.

If your able to hit 60+mpg with a factory car, then aero modding it + your efforts should put you over 70mpg easy. That would be pushing the #1 person on this site for MPG in a car.

Yeah, I must say I'm feeling a bit skeptical that this could be possible, but time will tell.

ARG!!!
I had planned on doing the Power Steering delete this weekend, but
A) the water pump is on the same belt, so I couldn't remove the belt
B) There appears to be more than just 2 hoses connected to the power steering pump.
Here, two hoses can be seen, in addition to another hose (not pictured) connected between the resivoir and the pump. I guess I'm going to have to buy the service manual to determine how to do this. Even if I find out what to do, the pump is in the back and is practically inaccessible. Perhaps I should get some jack stands and attempt to access it from below.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w...4/IMAG0189.jpg

On the upside, since I wasn't able to do the power steering delete, I decided to do a little aero modding.
I did a partial grill block and belly pan - not sure if I can really call it a belly pan - it just extends from the bumper to just past the radiator where a deflector already existed.
Before:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...2520before.jpg
After:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P.../IMAG0206.jpg"
I haven't done any ABA testing to truly determine the effectiveness, but my gas mileage has been pretty consistent over the past few days, so I should be able to estimate.
Another interesting thing to note is that my UltraGauge has been telling me about pending trouble codes, so I finally got around to checking them today. One of them was P0174, which indicates that the system is running too lean, which might be a contributing factor to my higher gas mileage. I intend to get it serviced, of course, but I'm wondering just how bad something like that could be as long as I'm not having trouble with it sputtering.

I've found a possible solution to my conundrum: electric water pump. Autozone has one designed for a small block engine for $175. I've read that replacing the water pump with an electric one will result in a dramatic performance improvement.
Of course, I'll probably need to get a second battery if I also do the alt delete. At full power, this thing draws 5 amps.

I think I read elsewhere on here someone suggesting the use of a programmable microcontroller to modulate one of these at a lower power level, but it seems like you could just get a manual PWM controller like this one, find a good setting for your typical cruising rpm and leave it there.

I'm open to suggestion here. I've worked with PIC micro-controllers before, and I'm not opposed to programming one, but it just seems like overkill.

I wonder how Suzuki Alto would be for aerodynamic mods?

They still make it in India Maruti800: one of the most successful cars in India and we have them here in few numbers at silly low prices.

Engine is 800cc motorbike engine from my memory, and thing does not weight nothing compared to other small cars.

It has also narrow tires so with some aerodynamic mods I would imagine it might go really well, convert to injection slap megasquirt into it and it might even take some lean burning too?

Frontal area is also among the smallest.

cdA is at 0.73 - 0.75 range, cd being 0.46 - 0.47 and frontal area of 1.59m^2

Here you can find some aerodynamic data from different vehicles to estimate which is better in stock form:
The Mayfield Company Homepage - Coefficient of Drag Tables and Curves

I would think that with aeromods one could lower cd to 0.35 range at least, if not even lower, depending from legistlation of area and what mods it does allow, maybe even less than that is possible and fuel economy would be great on city and highway too.

However I doubt that it would be possible increase length of that car by 1 meter in here, which it probably would need, or then chopping rear roof.

The 98 Neons with a five speed were rated at 41 mpg, but mine needed a TB from an automatic car and underdrive pulley kit to do it. My 95 Neon 5 speed got 42 with a performance (larger diameter) cat, automatic TB, and cheap V8 muffler at the back. Removal of the PS allowed it to get 46 mpg...spanking the heck out of the Smart car (premium gas), the Scion IQ, and the Fiat 500. BUT...my 96 Geo 3 banger got 60.1 with only a removal of 140 lbs...BUt IT GOT SPANKED by my wifes new Prius...an incredible 62.1 mpg without trying that hard at 55 mph 170 mile cruise...round trip so the wind direction and hills evened out.

I forgot to mention the Geo also got a grill block and headlight covers to get that mpg.

I replaced my battery with an agm battery, and forgot to write down the millage, thus delaying my calibration.I got around to calibrating today: 220mi on 4.624 gallons. Not quite 60+ mpg.
;(

Thanks for the link! According to that page, my corolla isn't "that" much better than a camry which is interesting unless i'm reading it wrong (cd and frontal area mainly looking at).

@bheadrick

Is this fill up directly after the few short runs you did a while back that calced to around 60mpg? If so, I would suspect the numbers this time are a bit low for the actual due to not counted gas in the last few. Almost 50mpg isn't bad, but you can do better I'm sure :).