Best Old Beetle for FE?

[wjohn]

First off - I know next to nothing about VWs. I have just always kind of wanted an older Beetle since they're so different from a mechanical standpoint. I do know from reading what I have found on there that they don't have good aero and are not a great choice out of all the vehicles in the world for getting FE.

However, say a guy is going to get one regardless, and he wants to start with the best one he can for FE... What years/models/engines/trans are the best?

My neighbors have had a dead one sitting in their yard for over a year now and if it turns out to be one of the better ones for FE, I'd try to buy it from them.

I have an MGB, for example (so I am well versed on constantly fixing stuff), and I have quickly learned I need to rebuild the very worn out engine + likely find an overdrive transmission assembly for it if I ever want to see 30 MPG. I presume there are probably certain transmissions that are more desirable for FE on the VWs as well.

[freebeard]

Thanks for asking.

The answer depends on the use case. Single passenger commuter, camper, road tripper, etc. Limited to the Beetle or to air cooled boxer? What's in the neighbor's yard?

A stock bodied Beetle is hard pressed to get 40 MPG. Here's the HVW Mileage Motor series: www.cbperformance.com/Featured-Articles-s/142.htm


A Karmann Ghia has achieved 50 MPG.


100 MPG would require a rebodied electric hybrid


The most utile is the Type III Squareback over the Type II.


Chop the top. For the Lowest Cd quarter the body to shrink it to fit the top:


Here's my own design:


The Jim Dandy roof rack could actually omprove MPG.

[freebeard]

I forgot to mention -- possibly the single biggest improvement to a stock Beetle would be a five-speed conversion. Not only for the overdriven top end, but it gives more choice driving around town in intermediate gears.

I happen to have one advertised in the For Sale subforum. ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/vw-beetle-five-speed-42213.html

[Isaac Zachary]

If I were to do it again for fuel efficiency as the only goal:

• Karman Ghia body if this is going on the highway as it should be the most aerodynamic. Type 3 Squareback seems to be the most practical other than a Bus. But Beetles are plentiful so tend to be cheaper.
• I've heard that single port engines are more fuel efficient.
• In my experience, lean out the carb at low engine loads and make it hit 13:1 or richer under full load.
• Regardless of single port or dual port, there would be a benefit to make custom timeing curves for separate front and rear pairs of cylinders.
• Grid under carb didn't make any difference for me.
• I did wish I had higher gearing sometimes. Yes, a 5-speed would be ideal.
• Whatever stock suspension, but get the ride height so that the drive axles ride as horizontally as possible.
• Stock cooling system WITH thermostat.
• I'm really stuck on what I'd do for the intake. Ideally one would engineer something that mixes each cylinder and keeps as much fuel as atomized as possible. But I also tend to lean towards the stock look. I wish I had the resources to mock up a transparent intake and see where fuel tends to pool and figure out how to get it atomized again (fuel ramps, ultrasonic piezoelectric vibrators, etc.). Then again, custom port fuel injection would potentially do the same thing with less R&D.
• Dual spark plugs per cylinder would help.
• I worked hard at making a tight quench of 0.040". Next time I'd go even tighter and machine a wedge getting wider between deck and piston going inwards to lessen that kiss suction effect.
• I also had issues with too much oil cooling. If only there were a way to include an oil thermostat in the oil cooler. Definitely go with a stock sized oil cooler. Bigger ain't always better.
• The same with the exhaust. I'd either calculate each runner and make it for my typical cruising engine speed or just stick with stock. I don't believe in the bigger is always better theory.
• I got away with a 10:1 compression ratio in my Beetle. It seems that as long as you keep it from pinging you can get away with it.
• I got a "Type 4" custom cam grind that seemed to make it run smoother, get better fuel mileage and was also part of what made the 10:1 compression ratio possible. I think I'd do it again if I got another VW again.

[wjohn]

Thanks to both of you - lots of reading for me to peruse there.

The Karmann Ghias I am seeing selling are way out of my price range and I honestly think they're kind of ugly (no offense to any owners). This purchase would be a Type 1. Whatever is in my neighbor's yard is also a Type 1. I will have to ask them if it's for sale and if so figure out what engine it has etc.

I would be pretty happy if I could build one to get anywhere close to 40 MPG.

[freebeard]

This purchase would be a Type 1.

Use case? Passengers and cargo? My Superbeetle has a driver's seat and an L-shaped bench six feet long on the shotgun side. Best mileage ever at 45MPH overnight was 34 MPG.



This says it's a Porsche (with a Beetle hood) but you could get there with a Beetle. 3/4 tonneau and a helmet would be good for 60(?) MPG.

[Isaac Zachary]

• I had a 1972 VW Super Beetle that got 30mpg
• With AA 1600 pistons and cylinders
• New VW Mexican heads.
• Stock cooling with new bellows style thermostat.
• I'm trying to find the cam grind I used. It was advertised as being a Type 4 cam grind for a Type 1 and that allowed a 10:1 compression ratio but felt like stock. It worked very well.
• 10:1 Compression ratio with either a 0.030 or 0.040 deck to piston clearance.
• Stock magnesium case.
• Stock crank and rods that I painfully balanced. The rods I suspended off of lines and special bearings just big enough for each end that I then hung over some ultra precise scales. The crank, pulley and flywheel were all balanced together.
• Stock dual heat riser dual port intake (California 1974)
• Solex Pict-4 carburetor (California 1974) jetted for 18 to 17:1 AFR at low loads and 12:1 at full throttle with the aid of an oxygen sensor added to the muffler to get the right jetting.
• Stock oil bath air cleaner with new vacuum operated thermostat.
• CB Magnaspark Digital distributor with digitally programmable timing map that I spent a lot of time trying to tune.
• Stock transmission.
• Stock wheels on 165/80R15 tires.
• Stock heating system with good condition OEM heat exchangers (a must in the Colorado mountains).

[redpoint5]

I'd go battery electric because all of the motors suck. I might have got 30 MPG under the best circumstances.

[freebeard]

It was advertised as being a Type 4 cam grind for a Type 1 and that allowed a 10:1 compression ratio but felt like stock

Any chance it was Raby Aircooled Technology? They're mainly a Type IV shop but IIRC they had a Type I cam.

CB Magnaspark Digital distributor with digitally programmable timing map that I spent a lot of time trying to tune.

I tried the low end of the MagnaSpark line with Ford internals, but the billet housing corroded inside so badly it wasn't repairable/rebuildable.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Any chance it was Raby Aircooled Technology? They're mainly a Type IV shop but IIRC they had a Type I cam.



I tried the low end of the MagnaSpark line with Ford internals, but the billet housing corroded inside so badly it wasn't repairable/rebuildable.

I don't think I had it ground by Raby. I'm not sure what company it was. They had a cam grind number that I also can't remember what it was.

I also didn't like the MagnaSpark billet housing. It was too big for a stock fuel pump. If I were to do it all over I'd really be more inclined to figure out best power/efficiency with a reasonable margin from detonation across every vacuum/RPM combo and then try to match the curves on a stock distributor (era specific, SVSA, SVDA or DVDA, etc.) with custom weights and springs.