best tow MPG to move 3500lbs - dodge cummins or small car??
 

Under the theory and discussion that vehicles which are overloaded will tend to get poor mpg...

If I had to move around 3500lb trailer loads on a regular basis, do you think I would get the lowest cost per mile using a small vehicle and pushing it's limits (driving slow is fine), or a midsize V6/compact pickup which would be around the middle of it's limits, or a full size diesel pickup which would be understressed and barely feel it?

What about at 5500lb trailer loads, do you think the small pickup (this is about the top for v6 minitrucks i've seen) or the cummins would have a better cost per mile? (not necessarily mileage with diesel costing 30% more around here)

What about for very light loads with utterly horrible aerodynamics? (stacks of styrofoam walk in freezer insulation stacked up 13 feet high on a trailer) I'm trying to get a feel for how different tow configurations have for mileage.

i have a E-350 with the 7.3 turbo diesel, that always gets 15-17 mpg 15 is 80mph towing a #7500 trailer terrible aero. 17 is empty trying my best to save fuel.

a 2wd tacoma with 4cyl. is rated for #3500 tow if it has trailer brakes. but with a real load the diesel van is better mpg.

some of the cummins are getting 20+ mpg without trying, and #5500would not overload it. or drop mpg much.

unless you are using it as a daily driver and only occasionally towing, the diesel makes the most sense

you are going to 'jack up' the car.
The problem is the stress you put on all the attachment componets of the car. Not just the mounting points of the hitch. The suspension, tranny mounts, motor m0unts, etc etc.
Very few cars are made on frames anymore. they are unibody. So the stress of pulling that load are magnified thruoghuot the unibody.

That is a classic pound foolish example.

It's not a question about vehicle stresses, it's a question about mileage. :)

I know a guy whose a CAD engineer who made some special one off hitches and vehicle mods so that he's been pulling 3500lbs with a compact for over 50,000 miles of road time with no problems. So the vehicle can do it - the question is at the end of the day who is likely to have the mileage advantage...

Mcrews has a very valid point, it's not just the hitch, it's the engine mounts, drive axles, breaks.
We tow a 3,500 pound trailer at work with a Dodge 1500 and replace the breaks every 15,000 to 20,000 miles, we also get 9 to 11mpg with the trailer and 15-20mpg without.

My Honda Civic is only rated to tow 1,000 pounds and towing that my mileage drops to 35 to 40mpg, getting up to speed is ok but stopping takes planing and going around corners where the road is wet or sandy can get sketchy, I also notice that the car runs differently after I do a lot of towing, it ends up feeling like it's aged, that doesn't stop me from using it that way but it's something to keep in mind.

For towing I'd like to try one of the small Sprinter vans.

Well... still about mileage. : D I'm aware towing is hard on something especially something being pushed, but this will be a job for a beater econocar. Plus it's still comparing that to a V6 minitruck and a fullsize diesel for the 3500lb level. It's v6 minitruck or diesel for 5500lbs.

If your towing 1000lbs and getting 35mpg thats i'm assuming better than any cummins. Though at 3500lbs thats alot more - it's entirely possible that a cummins wont even feel that and will still pull 20mpg, whereas the v6 pickup will see some strain and maybe only be 20mpg itself. (but with 30% cheaper gasoline instead of diesel) At 5500lbs maybe the v6 pickup will be dropping way down. Or maybe it will be no worse off, mostly being about the aero load?

I'm trying to figure out which combination of two vehicles best meets my range of trailering goals. It's quite possible that a compact which can tow better than most (bigger than geo metro for this reason) and a fullsize pickup which is understressed is a better combination than say, geo metro and V6 S10 if the latter has to be used for nearly all tows over 1000lbs. Similar to the charts of "how does mpg improve when you cruise at slower speeds" from 35mph to 75mph, i'd be curious to how much the MPG of each type of vehicle drops as trailering loads increase. I've heard of enough gas pickups getting 8mpg towing travel trailers for instance. Someone said they got 8mpg towing 3500lbs with a sedan though because it was completely overstressed.

That mileage drop at the time went from 53mpg with an empty car and no trailer and 39mpg with a 10 foot long trailer hooked on 3/4 of the tank of gas and full about half that time.

The truck that we have at work has a 5.4L V6 and is towing a 16 foot flat bed trailer that we haul granite on, when the total weight is getting in the 3,500 pound limit then the truck really notices and the mileage drops down to those 8-9mpg figures and even with that truck driving in bad weather with that much weight gets sketchy.
A diesel would be well worth it.

Back in the late 70's, my DD was a 1955 Ford 1/2 ton with a 6 cylinder and 3 speed stick. At 50 MPH, it averaged 18 to 20 MPG running empty, and 8 to 10 MPG pulling the smallest U-Haul box trailer.

Which just reminded me....
2006 Kia sportage V6 FWD gets 24 epa on hwy.
Towed my daughters stuff to college. flat bed uhaul trailer stacker 6 ft high w furniture and stuff.
Actually could see the gas gauge move. got 9mpg on that trip.

Ask your buddy with the 50,000 miles of towing experience what his fe is and how everything is holding up.

Nice thing about forums......facts dont have to be verified:rolleyes:

Reminds me of all the guys lowering their cars and claiming there's no additional wear......:eek:

You can be all the CAD engineer you want to be.....but you cant redesign bushings etc to keep from wearing out do to excessive loads beyond the design perimeters..
A compact car has parts machined to go on a compact car. smaller bolts, thinner bushings...the list goes on.
My Kia sportage is listed at 1500 lbs max.
a Kia sedona (van) is only listed at 3000.

But the REAL is SAFTEY.
So unless this is a 'hypothetical case'.....you really need to expand your thought process :thumbup:

another thought.....
High school kid learned how to override the ecu on daddy's BMW M5 on a bmw forum. Just like you, he asked. (he didn't just read it)
Killed himself and 3 buddies. Guess who the attorneys went after.......

So my cma advise to you is.......safety first.

3500 isn't as huge as it sounds... it's like towing an empty, modern family sedan. If speeds are low, accels and decels gentle, roads good, it probably is OK.

It seems like it would become more of a question of weight distribution than overall weight in this range. For instance towing a car in neutral on 4 tires is allot different than towing a load of roofing shingles on a single axle trailer with 500-1000 gross tongue weight. The more I look into it the more I think the wear and tear of trailers on gas sipper's isn't really meant for anything beyond occasional/semi-occasional light duty (1000-2000lbs) work. I mean it will definitely save money short term, and if you can't afford to get a truck then it's a useful option, but if you like to make your vehicles last then it's somewhat counter-intuitive for regular use. Just my .02 as i move forward.

P.s. i'm still planning a light duty aero trailer for my festiva. This will likely not ever exceed 1000 pounds total gross weight (including trailer) and will include trailer breaks. We each have to find what works best for our situation. :thumbup:

personally, id go for a 1500 pickup with a v6 and 5 speed. its a truck, everybody has parts, the parts are designed for light towing.

i posted this in another thread but ill repeat here, anything can tow anything but you cant stop 3500-5500lbs safely with a small car. think about that family who just had to slam on the brakes cause a deer ran into the road. can you control and stop your trailer?

plus if you go with chevy,dodge,ford you can play with gear ratios easily and really drop the cruising rpm's for empty return trips

I would be looking a the Buick Roadmaster ( or the two other GM variants),V8, ~5000lbs towing capacity, 8 seats, and can clear 21MPG, less drag than a large pickup,you can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in back with the seats down, cheap parts and cheap upgrades.

Here's a quick comparison, but not exactly what you're looking for. I had a Mitsubishi Legnum (Galant station wagon, 2.4 GDI petrol) that I usually towed 1500 lbs with all over the place. Average mpg, 16.8 US over about 2 years.

I then got a P38 Range Rover, 4.0 V8 petrol, and since it could tow 7700 lbs safely, I was able to load up the trailer to it's max of 3000 lbs (vs. the 1500 I towed with the Mitsu). Average mpg, 15.7 US over a period of 5 months.

The Mitsu had to work really hard around town while the Range Rover was barely breaking a sweat (even with the small engine), so I figure that it's also about efficiencies. If you're straining the small car (remember the Legnum isn't that small), you're going to be getting fairly bad fuel mileage whereas something that isn't straining will return you decent mileage.

some will feel this is ok
 

http://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/C...ng-On-Vacationhttp://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/C...ng-On-Vacation

and if it can haul it it must be ok!

http://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/C...-To-The-Garage

I want that guy's trike! :thumbup:

This seems familiar... http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ncy-22923.html

That's because stillsearching starts a new thread for every post. No wonder he's still searching.

Fancy hitches do not change physics. Pulling a 3500 lb trailer with a compact car is dangerous, IMO. Doing it on flat ground in light traffic is OK I suppose, but, it is still asking for trouble. Believe it or not, there are other considerations besides FE.

How much would you be using the tow vehicle without and without the load? If it will primarily be used without the load then the Highest FE vehicle that is capable(as in is rated for) of pulling the load seems the best option. If you will only be using it with the load then pick a vehicle that will get good mileage loaded and have a decent margin over that.

When talking about 3500 lbs I don't know of many cars that are rated that high. Think very hard if you are incline to over load. Sure the car may do it (and may be rated for it in other markets). Consider that if you are over the limit for your vehicle and you get in an accident (even if it's not your fault) you will be liable as the load you were pulling was not legal, the manufacture certified their product for a certain weight, you are on your own if you care to exceed it. Then try asking your insurance if they would cover you over loaded.

Stopping ability trumps Mileage. It don't matter how much money you save on fuel if you bend someone else's metal or damage flesh it ain't worth it. It does not matter how much Insurance you have it can not give back their time or take the pain you caused them away.

You don't need CAD to make a custom trailer hitch.

Bottom line is that different vehicles have different legal weight limits for towing and it's legit to get pulled over for towing what looks like an unsafe load and being taken to a scale to be weighed then paying $1,000's in fines for being over loaded.

I know a lot of people who can design a lot of different things, that doesn't make it safe or legal no matter how good of an idea they say it is.

If you want a small vehicle that can tow large loads get a small truck, something like a 1 ton Toyota, that has a larger trailer load limit and put the hitch close to the rear axle, get a load distributing hitch and have a vehicle that will get 20-25mpg towing and 30mpg without the trailer, but that has a solid frame, good brakes and is legal.