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Old 11-23-2019, 03:23 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Both,longitudinally,and transversely,the unibody would have orders of magnitude larger structural triangulation and stiffness available,compared with a body-on-frame, stamped- steel chassis.And with less mass.The roof apex would act as an integral rollbar,augmenting a-pillars,b-pillars,and c-pillars in tightening,roll-over roof-crush protection standards.I don't know how you could beat it for beaming and torsional rigidity.
You actually want the frame to twist while carrying loads over rough ground. The ladder frame acts as a large torsional spring independent from body and bed.

With a unibody those forces go into the unibody stressing all the spot welds that hold it together. Eventually they fatigue and fail.

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Old 11-23-2019, 03:27 PM   #32 (permalink)
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forces

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Unpainted steel is way harder to keep looking good than paint. With paint you can just buff out a scratch. You can do the same with unpainted steel but it is way harder to blend from the newly buffed area to the weathered original surface.

You also can't repair dents with unpainted steel because you can't use filler. Either the dent is knocked out perfectly or you have to replace the panel. With a painted service you pop out the dent so it is close to the original shape, fill with body filler, sand the surface to match, and then repaint.
Seems like engineering hard points for attachment,and running magnetorheological dampers would be a walk in the park nowadays for addressing these issues.All-metal aircraft,from home-builts,to commercial jetliners all get by with rigid, stressed-skin fuselage.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:27 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Disappointing look, great features

I agree that the truck looks ... weird. And that's disappointing.

Everything else about it is great. Range, towing, built-in inverter, ground clearance. I don't really need a bullet-proof truck. But it's good that it does not scratch or dent.

Maybe the look will grow on me. I remember the ford Taurus (original jelly bean shape) looked very odd when it was released. 5 years later everything seemed to look like that. I doubt that Elon has started a new trend, and I doubt that anyone who wants one will have to wait for a large backlog to be produced to 'fill latent demand'.

I like the idea that police forces around the world will jump on board for these. There are a *LOT* of police forces.

The only part of the truck .. and it's a *LARGE* part .. that I don't like (and it sounds like this is pretty common ... HUGE SARCASM ... ) is the looks. It doesn't work to change out the body .. since that is the structure of the truck.

Perhaps there will be a *HUGE* and varied aftermarket for body kits that will make it look ... less weird? Stainless is tough to glue things to, welding is sort of a specialty, maybe the body kits will rivet onto it? That'll void the warranty, but it could be worth it! Carbon fiber panels riveted onto the stock panels should not change enough to mess with the crash testing stuff. It will mess up the aero a bit but I'd be willing to sacrifice some range for some semi-custom looks. The carbon fiber should not weigh enough to change the handling much.

I wonder how much carbon fiber would be needed to make it look like a Super GT?
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Turns out the Cybertruck glass really is bulletproof, but even bulletproof glass can only take so many hits before it breaks.

Tesla tested it over and over until they were confident they could pull off the stunt on stage:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1198090787520598016

Only then it became apparent it had been tested once too many times.

As for the looks, yes it is weird... but it grows on you.
There are not that many pickup trucks in Europe, but someone has a huge new shiny red one (don't know brand or type but it is really big) down the street one block away. I see that thing almost daily.
This morning I walked past it and couldn't help myself giggling. It suddenly looks so outdated, so fake.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:38 PM   #35 (permalink)
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looks

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Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
I agree that the truck looks ... weird. And that's disappointing.

Everything else about it is great. Range, towing, built-in inverter, ground clearance. I don't really need a bullet-proof truck. But it's good that it does not scratch or dent.

Maybe the look will grow on me. I remember the ford Taurus (original jelly bean shape) looked very odd when it was released. 5 years later everything seemed to look like that. I doubt that Elon has started a new trend, and I doubt that anyone who wants one will have to wait for a large backlog to be produced to 'fill latent demand'.

I like the idea that police forces around the world will jump on board for these. There are a *LOT* of police forces.

The only part of the truck .. and it's a *LARGE* part .. that I don't like (and it sounds like this is pretty common ... HUGE SARCASM ... ) is the looks. It doesn't work to change out the body .. since that is the structure of the truck.

Perhaps there will be a *HUGE* and varied aftermarket for body kits that will make it look ... less weird? Stainless is tough to glue things to, welding is sort of a specialty, maybe the body kits will rivet onto it? That'll void the warranty, but it could be worth it! Carbon fiber panels riveted onto the stock panels should not change enough to mess with the crash testing stuff. It will mess up the aero a bit but I'd be willing to sacrifice some range for some semi-custom looks. The carbon fiber should not weigh enough to change the handling much.

I wonder how much carbon fiber would be needed to make it look like a Super GT?
If the performance is associated with the 'looks,' then there's no reason to change it.We'd finally have 'death of the Paris dressmaker.' Which I'd have been praying for since 1926,if old enough.I'm not saying that the shape is 'ideal,' however,they're knocking on the door.And like an aircraft fuselage,airship envelope,or submarine outer hull,you basically just leave the 'styling' alone for the rest of time.
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Presently,an automotive finish is the most expensive part of a vehicle.The lack of a spray booth and all the robotics will shave a lot off the cost of a production facility.And OPEC price shocks won't affect the price of the Tesla's 'finish.' Ever.
The paint shop isn't even close to the cost of the body-in-white. There are way more more tools, fixtures, and robots putting the unibody together and many are specific to a specific model.

The robots in the paint shop are shared between every model produced in the factory.

Also polished parts are way more expensive than painted parts to produce and much harder to keep from being damaged during assembly. Ours all have plastic films on the A-surface to keep them from being damaged. If they are damaged bare metal parts are very hard to repair. A polished mirror finish is pretty easy to fix but blending a matte finish to match the surrounding area is very specialized work.
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:58 PM   #37 (permalink)
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paint shop

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The paint shop isn't even close to the cost of the body-in-white. There are way more more tools, fixtures, and robots putting the unibody together and many are specific to a specific model.

The robots in the paint shop are shared between every model produced in the factory.

Also polished parts are way more expensive than painted parts to produce and much harder to keep from being damaged during assembly. Ours all have plastic films on the A-surface to keep them from being damaged. If they are damaged bare metal parts are very hard to repair. A polished mirror finish is pretty easy to fix but blending a matte finish to match the surrounding area is very specialized work.
As I understand from the reporting (Hyundai's US assembly plants),during manufacture of a painted automobile,the electro-prep dipping,priming,top-coating,and clear-coat, costs more than any other 'component' of the vehicle,including the engine or transmission.The cost and operation of the multiple 'line' procedures to complete the finish, constitutes a significant portion of the overall assembly plant cost,and vehicle unit cost.
I'll have to defer to you with respect to any special handling complications of working with stainless,however I'm given to understand that there are specific advantages in the deletion of a painted finish and all that it entails.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
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When buying kitchen appliances stainless steel fronts were more expensive than enamel painted fronts.
I almost just wish they would go flexible colored plastics for all the surfaces, especially on something built to work or go offroad. Think side by sides.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:08 PM   #39 (permalink)
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When buying kitchen appliances stainless steel fronts were more expensive than enamel painted fronts.
I almost just wish they would go flexible colored plastics for all the surfaces, especially on something built to work or go offroad. Think side by sides.
GM's Saturn Corp. had reaction-injection-molded plastic panels bonded to a metal superstructure.Velcro has a product in the pipeline which will be used to secure panels on automobiles as well as aircraft I believe.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:31 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
As I understand from the reporting (Hyundai's US assembly plants),during manufacture of a painted automobile,the electro-prep dipping,priming,top-coating,and clear-coat, costs more than any other 'component' of the vehicle,including the engine or transmission.The cost and operation of the multiple 'line' procedures to complete the finish, constitutes a significant portion of the overall assembly plant cost,and vehicle unit cost.
I'll have to defer to you with respect to any special handling complications of working with stainless,however I'm given to understand that there are specific advantages in the deletion of a painted finish and all that it entails.
That sounds right. McKinsey put the exterior at 11% of the parts cost, and I imagine it's a much larger portion of labor costs.

https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mck..._supplier.ashx

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