05-08-2025, 02:05 PM
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#431 (permalink)
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' contact of two solid surfaces...'
As long as a motor oil's film strength can protect against actual metal-to-metal contact, the coefficient of friction ( COF ) is basically of low significance. 
'Viscosity' is essentially what determines fuel economy.
' Chemically Accelerated Vibratory Surface Finishing ( CAVSF ), and 'Diamond-Like Carbon ( DLC ) Coatings will be equally interesting.
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05-08-2025, 08:13 PM
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#432 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead
As long as a motor oil's film strength can protect against actual metal-to-metal contact, the coefficient of friction ( COF ) is basically of low significance. 
'Viscosity' is essentially what determines fuel economy.
' Chemically Accelerated Vibratory Surface Finishing ( CAVSF ), and 'Diamond-Like Carbon ( DLC ) Coatings will be equally interesting.
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“ People who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it”
― George Bernard Shaw
That's all I can say on that atm... except for:
Thx for all your help getting this thread 'way up there' in the search engine results, which has helped me more than you know!
The last thing a can leave you (all) with is this:
Now if pistons somehow defy the laws of physics and logic and don't slow (mixed lube) an and stop (boundary lube) before reversing direction; whereTH does that come from!?
Good thing the mixed/boundary lubed piston assembly is moving too slowly to build up the frictional heat required to weld itself to the sleeve at this point of operation...
Also; thx to quench and that ~4mm of piston above the top piston ring, there is no burn heat in that area ...
freebeard: IIRC this was the er... 'sticking point' for you back at the beginning of this thread?
I hope considering that clears things up for you. And thx... (in this thread)
Also; lets not forget that valves and cam followers etc stand dead still for 3 strokes in 4.
Good thing engine designers had the good sense to avoid ridges here by making the cam follower stick out above it's little sleeve..! A logical solution!
On Hydrodynamic lubrication:
Why are roads rough and tires treaded..?
How much worse (in this case) would hydroplaning be on a glass road with slicks..?
Even at lower speeds...
Thx again! 
'Logic has left the building'
Last edited by Logic; 05-08-2025 at 09:15 PM..
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05-12-2025, 12:09 PM
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#433 (permalink)
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' Valvetrain '
Let's not forget that, at the time Dr. Erdemir joined Argonne National Laboratory, that it was automotive 'valvetrain wear' that concerned tribologists, not 'piston / cylinder' situations.
By 1995, when the Argonne PATENT was issued, passenger car engine wear was essentially of no concern to them whatsoever
Also in 1995, for CART, Formula 1, IndyCar, and NASCAR, 'valvetrain failure' was the ONLY thing teams were experiencing.
It remains an issue in 2025 with the National Hot Rod Association ( NHRA ) , and they're not relying on 'Boron' for any solution. They're using a 1965 technology for that.
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Last edited by aerohead; 05-12-2025 at 12:28 PM..
Reason: add data
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05-22-2025, 10:45 AM
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#434 (permalink)
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'Selling' Motor Oil in the United States............'
I'll start this and add data until complete.
No motor oil for automotive gasoline engines can be approved for sale in the United States until the following tests are satisfied, including oil with Boric Acid, under normal engine operating temperatures:
ASTM D56
ASTM D91
ASTM D92
ASTM D93
ASTM D95
ASTM D97
ASTM G99-17
ASTM D156
ASTM D189
ASTM D287
ASTM D322
ASTM D455 / JASO M358
ASTM D482
ASTM D524
ASTM E659
ASTM D664
ASTM D874
ASTM D892
ASTM D893
ASTM D974
ASTM D1160
ASTM D1298
ASTM D1310
ASTM D1500
ASTM D2266 COF Test
ASTM D2270
ASTM D2273
ASTM D2500
ASTM D2602
ASTM D2670
ASTM D2887
ASTM D2896
ASTM D3525
ASTM D3607
ASTM D3828
ASTM D3829
ASTM D4055
ASTM D4172, 4-Ball, Coefficient of Friction ( COF ) Test
ASTM D5293
ASTM D5800
ASTM D5950
ASTM D7042
ASTM D7320, Sequence III G Engine Test
ASTM D8114-22
ASTM ' high-temperature testing is done in a tube at the equivalent shear of a very low rpm', RedLine Synthetic Oil Corporation
RIO 191
CEC L-32-T-82
CRC independent L38 Test
ASTM Sequence Test V-B
ASTM Sequence Test V-C
ASTM Sequence Test V-D
ASTM Sequence IV Test
ASTM Sequence Test VIE
ASTM Engine Teardown & Parts Evaluation
Federal Test Method Standard 791 & 791b Method 203
Federal Test Method Standard No. 791b, Method 3470, Homogeniety and Miscibility of Engine Oils: 100% compatibility with
- all oils
- all additives
- all by-products of combustion.
- cerium catalysts
- lanthanum catalysts
- palladium catalysts
- platinum catalysts
- rhodium catalysts
- ruthenium catalysts
- incapability of generating low speed pre-ignition ( LSPI ), instantaneous, catastrophic piston damage in gasoline direct injection engines
Oil viscosity must be proven against the effects of:
- unburned fuel dilution
- oil oxidation
- oil volatilization
- oil contamination with by-products of combustion
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All these tests can be considered 'hurdles', which must be 'jumped' by any oil or additive in order to be officially accepted. Failing any one test can knock the candidate out of the running.
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Last edited by aerohead; 05-24-2025 at 10:48 AM..
Reason: add data
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05-22-2025, 12:32 PM
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#435 (permalink)
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' FRICTION MODIFIERS '
In addition to 'Boron', the following substances or processes have been investigated as friction modifiers ( FM ) for motor oils, some currently in service
- Aerodynamic streamlining of crankshaft counterweights
- Auto-Start-Stop
- Ceramic valves
- Chemically Accelerated Vibratory Surface Finishing ( CAVSF ) 'Superfinishing' [ asperity removal from metal surfaces ]
- Chrome-plated top piston-rings
- Chromium Nitride ( CrN )
- Diamond-Like Carbon ( DLC ) 'Dylyn (R) Plus' coatings
- 'Finger' ( follower ) rocker arms
- Glycerolmono-oleate ( GMO )
- Graphene
- Graphite pistons
- Hydrodynamically-streamlined water pump impellers
- Hypereutectic Aluminum Alloy pistons
- Low restriction, tuned exhaust
- Molybdenum disulfide ( MoS2 )
- Molybdenum dithiocarbamate ( MoDTC )
- Molybdenum top piston-ring
- Nano-graphite
- Narrow / larger-diameter bearing journals
- Oleyamide ( Amide )
- Piston-ring tension reduction
- Piston-skirt surface area reduction optimization
- Polytetraflouroethylene ( PTFE ), 'Teflon / Fluon'
- 'Pultrusion', engine block & cylinder head oil & water passage surface friction 'machining'
- 'Roller' camshafts
- 'Roundabouts' traffic circles
- Silicon-Carbide ceramic
- Silion ceramic
- Synchronized Traffic Lights
- Titanium Carbo-Nitride ( TiCN ) hard-ceramic
- Titanium connecting rods
- Titanium nitride ( TiN )
- Titanium valves
- Two-ring pistons
- Variable Coatings Synergy 'ensemble' EXAMPLE: Molybdenum Chromium Nitride
- Valve-guide diameter reduction
- Variable valve-timing
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Last edited by aerohead; 05-24-2025 at 10:43 AM..
Reason: add data
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05-24-2025, 11:28 AM
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#436 (permalink)
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"Chemically-Aged" Motor Oil
This is perhaps the deal-breaker for any candidate oil or oil additive, requiring " fired" engine testing, or "motored" engine on a dynamometer, with used motor oil from a previous 'fired-Motor" test.
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Argonne National Laboratory, and Dr. Ali Erdemir would have been familiar with the 'mechanism' of this phenomena, as it was published by Amoco Petroleum Additives Company ( now British Petroleum ), in 1986, SAE Paper # 860374, 'Wear mechanisms in moderate temperature gasoline engine service., by C.T. West et al..
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What was discovered was that, in ASTM 'Motored-engine' testing, that, for 'new oil', all ZDDP extreme-pressure additive could be 'removed' from the oil with no effect to significant engine wear.
'Wear' occurred only when the motor oil was exposed to combustion-by-products / blow-by of exhaust creating fuel dilution / oxidative Viscosity Index Improver degradation, viscosity reduction which added additional wear.
No amount of 'success' during 'un-fired screening tests' could compensate for the 'failure' during 'fired' testing.
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* All motor oils and additives must have 100% compatibility with every other oil, additive, and exhaust gases, or it's a 'FAIL.'
* All motor oils and additives must survive 225-C ( 54-C above the 'useful' temperature limit for boric acid [ Dr. Ali Erdemir ].
* As of 1995, boric acid was 'NEVER' evaluated for 'Fired-engine' operation.
* 2008, "... orthoboric acid is chosen for evaluation." Dr. Ali Erdemir ( no mention of any prior 'evaluation' of boric acid ).
* 2008, "... interest for automotive application". Dr. Ali Erdemir ( it's 13-years after Argonne'' US PATENT, and they're just now 'interested' in boric acid & automobiles ).
* 2008, "... screening studies", Dr. Ali Erdemir.
* Between 2008, and 2013, boric acid had never completed the batteries of 'safety' and 'environmental' tests required to be accepted for use.
* Between 2013, and 2017, when Dr. Ali Erdemir retired from Argonne N L, nothing else was published about 'boric acid.'
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Last edited by aerohead; 05-24-2025 at 12:07 PM..
Reason: add data
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