Bought a 2021 Pacifica PHEV today
 

Finally got into the game with a Pacifica today. It's the most basic hybrid Pacifica you can get, the Touring, with just one option, the cold weather package so heated seats. I really hope they up the game a bit on the tax rebates ($10,000 not limited by tax liability) but if not I should be able to get close to the $7500, I maybe need to adjust my IRA to a Roth to put it over the top. There were $5000 in Chrysler incentives as well. I paid full MSRP but they game me a little more on the trade. I traded the Touareg TDI. That was the nicest car I have ever owned but it hasn't been confidence building in it's repairs up to now. Not that a Pacifica might be any better but at least I don't have to worry about anything for the first 3 years.

I took delivery with less than 1% battery energy and 20 miles on it after a 10 mile test drive. It's really seamless, I almost wish there was more I could force like EV only or more brake regen, but it seems it's just made to operate no different than our 2011 Town and Country (which I still have also, maybe for my teenage daughter, maybe I'll sell it and use the money for something compact.) What it did do is 39 mpg on the drive home (45 max speed, stop and go) according to the computer and like I said, that was with <1% battery charge. I plugged it in to 110 when I got home and it's shows 12 hr 45 min to full charge. We have 220 in out garage so I may invest in a level 2 charger. It will be primarily my wife's car and most days if I can convince her to plug it in at home she probably won't use much gas. We can't force EV so I don't know how light we need to be on the throttle to keep the gas from kicking on. I also don't know how smart it is with the remote start at using the plug in when connected to pre condition the interior.

We shopped a 2021 Sienna as well, and even looked at the 2021 Honda for grins as well. The Honda seems to have no good reason to buy it right now IMO. It was easily the most expensive, doesn't get better mileage than our 20 year old Chrysler, and is pretty plain in the inside. The Toyota is better on the interior than all of them and at MSRP is similar cost for similar features, but they have no tax rebate, and had a $1500 rebate vs $5000 rebate. That makes the Chrysler much less. We thought we might want the AWD available on the Sienna but we have gotten by just fine without AWD for many years now on the van, so it seemed like a good idea to save the $2000 premium for AWD along with saving another $11,000 because of tax and incentives. Come on Toyota, make it a plug in like the other Prime hybrids you make and I'd have a Toyota today.

Pretty happy. Pretty shocked to spend that much on a car, but carp we were at Costco today and refrigerators seem to cost $3-4k. So a van for 10 refrigerators doesn't see out of line. I also figured out that our old T&C is about 10 years old and almost exactly 100k on it. It has gotten pretty consistently 18-20 average overall. So 100,000 miles at 19 mpg is 5263 gallons at probably an average of around $3/gallon. If that had been a 30 mph hybrid, that would have been 3,333 gallons, or a $5,800 savings. If gas goes back to $5 or more or we end up getting much better than 30 mpg by plugging it in, then that's probably worst case savings. It's not going to really be able to save us money considering that initial purchase, but it certainly make more sense than a Honda for us at least. Just wish me luck on the Chrysler being a little new at this stuff. Our T&C has been 100% flawless in it's life so I can't knock the foundation of what's in the Pacifica and the hybrid part has a longer warranty.

Seems like a reasonable choice. Congrats.

What's the tow rating? ;)

There is conflicting information. The previous 2020 version it said not reccomend. This version I don't ever see not reccomend but I also never see a definitive number. Mopar makes a hitch and wiring harness for it which I just ordered and it lists 2 different ratings depending on what radiator I have. So it's either 1500 pounds or 3600 pounds. Either way my teardrop should be fine.

My morning commute worked out well. It still wasn't at 100% after charging 11 hours but it was 93% and it's now at 75% after the 4 mile commute which it did 100% ev and it was 32 degrees this morning. Extrapolating that out it's about a 22 mile range at freezing.

Check the forums to see if your stock EVSE can do 240v without modification. Often they can, but simply don't mention it. The Chevy Bolt EVSE for instance is labeled for 120v, but plenty of people use it on 240v. That will save you money on buying an aftermarket one.

The onboard charger is 6.6 kW so that's good apparently for a PHEV. It will go down to 2 hrs for a 0-100% charge on 240. I'll look into the ability to convert the existing box to 240. I have a feeling it will need a new one. I saw some were 32 amps and some 40 amps do you know how to do the math to see if a 32 will do it?

I Googled the Pacifica EVSE and it looks like it's capable of 240v without modification. You'll need an adaptor that converts from the NEMA 5-15P (standard outlet connector on your EVSE) to whatever your 240v receptacle is. It will cut your charging time in half (down to about 6hrs).

This forum thread talks about it.
https://www.pacificaforums.com/threa...e.26714/page-2

Your onboard charger is 6.6 kW. The math is;

6,600 watts (your onboard charger) \ 240v (standard 240v household service) = 27.5 amps. This is how many amps will be drawn to charge at the full 6.6 kW rate.

Electrical code states that a circuit cannot have more than 80% of the rated capacity continuously used. That means if you intend to charge at the full 27.5 amps, a 30 amp circuit is insufficient (that's 92% of rated capacity). The next standard size up is 50 amps, typically a NEMA 14-50R.

Sooo... if you want full speed charging you'll probably need a new dedicated NEMA 14-50R installed, and a new EVSE capable of at least 30 amps (might as well get one rated to 40 amps for future proofing). Alternatively, you can get a hardwired EVSE which will require a dedicated circuit to be added.

If you want to save money and 6hrs is fast enough, you can use your existing EVSE and get an adaptor that plugs into an existing 240v outlet if you've got one free.

I added my own 240v NEMA 14-50R to my garage because it was only 10ft from the breaker, and took about $75 in materials. Your EVSE doesn't require modification to work (but does require an adaptor), but the one I had did.

At my new house I intend to repurpose one of the 30 amp circuits for an outlet in the garage. I don't use the electric clothes dryer or cooking range circuits, for example.

It seems like literally every Volt and Leaf owner used their OEM L1 on 240vac

If you have it already there use it.


What isn’t clear is if your Pacifica is like the leaf and can draw up to the full 30 amps at 110vac based on the EVSE pilot signal

If it can and you have 20amp 110vac wiring (like my garage) you could buy a $99 DUOSIDA dual voltage EVSE and live with an 8 hour 110vac charge with the possibility of a 4 hour charge if you locate a 220 outlet at an RV park or similar


If you want a big boy charger, DUOSIDA and others offer dual voltage programmable EVSEs, some leaf owners get 3.3kw / 30 amp of 110volt goodness at RV parks using one of these
Having an adapter kit to fit common outlets along with an EVSE that can have preset amperage from 8-30amps is very helpful for opportunity charging.

All this said, YOU WILL NEVER SAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR ANOTHER EVSE!

From economics best to use your OEM on 220
For fun and convenience one of the other options is best (but even at $99 it does not make economical sense)

Wrong plug (but you get the idea, used to be a dude that sold full adapter kits to all the common outlets)

https://www.amazon.com/Couplago-Rece...31724381&psc=1

What I find very strange is that the Pacifica can take up to 14 hours to charge despite having a tiny battery, the mathematics don’t work out.

Cool thanks people! Just looking at my garage breakers, I have 2 different 40 amp 240s set up. They are actually not connected to outlets yet, the wires are just run the the boxes and blanked off. So i can buy whatever style 240 outlets and put them in. This was technically built as a shop for a cabinet guy, not necessarily a garage so it has it's own dedicated 10kA service.

That's a little bit of a conundrum because a 40 amp breaker and wires shouldn't be used with a 50 amp receptacle, and a 30 amp receptacle is not rated high enough to charge at the full 6.6 kW your Pacifica is capable of.

You could install a 30 amp receptacle and buy an adapter to use with your stock EVSE. The stock EVSE will limit itself to 12 amps, so no risk of overloading a 30 amp circuit. You'll be limited to ~2.9 kW though instead of the full 6.6 the van is capable of. The other sucky thing is that RV hookups tend to only have NEMA 14-50 receptacles for their 240v service, so your adaptor wouldn't work there.

Alternatively you could buy an EVSE and have it hardwired to your existing 40 amp electrical run. You'll get full charging power by doing so, with the expense of having to buy another EVSE and complete the connection to the existing wiring.

If it were me though... and this goes against code and would blow up 120v appliances if you connected them... I would simply wire a NEMA 5-20 receptacle to the 240v circuit and plug your EVSE into it. I'd put a red warning sign on it that says not to use the outlet because it's 240v. I'd have a fire extinguisher rated to put out electrical fires nearby in case someone still decides to disconnect your EVSE, not pay attention to the warning sign, and plug in a 120v appliance. I'd do this because it's electrically safe so long as nobody ever tries to plug a 120v device into it, and it's the cheapest since the only expense is a $3 receptacle. I'd get a single receptacle instead of dual just to minimize the temptation to plug anything else in.

NEMA 5-20 on Amazon

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1500_.jpg

So may battery was totally dead and it said 12 hrs 45 mins. I had to leave at about 11 hours and it was at 91% I think.

They say the level two charger drops that to just 2.5 hours. Makes me think the factory box is just pretty amp limited. It says 12 amps 1440 watts that's at 120. So if i tried to use the factory box but with a 240 adaptor would it just run the same 12 amps but then 2880 watts? That means an actual 240 charger running the full 27.5 amps is needed to do the 6600 watts.

OK, I know you guys probably get this I'm just working it out in my head.

anyway even at 1440 watts a 16,000 watt battery should fully charge in 11.1 hours but I'm sure it ramps down a couple times as it approaches 100%

I bet the 2.5 hrs at 6.6 is a bit optimistic as well, probably more like 3 to hit 100%.

Also isn't 100% charging bad? I can't seem to set other limits. Maybe what they call 100% isn't actually 100%.

Your assumptions are correct.

Note that preheating a plug-in (or EV) usually draws more than the 120v outlet can keep up with, so it will use a little bit of the battery in the process. Generally you need to step up to L2 if you want to avoid any battery drain during preheating.

Your probably the kind of guy who makes their own deadman parallel cords. LOL.

I think I'll just put in a 30 amp 240, buy the adaptor, and run the 12 amps knowing 6 hours charge is going to be fine. I'm sure I can use the 30 amp 240 for other things as well, like our camper. Even after driving back out to the dealer after work, and then home, a total of 17 miles all EV overall today, it went from 91% to 35% and shows 8 hours to recharge on the 120. That dealer is way outside of town by the airport so that's beyond any normal daily usage. Getting that 8 hours down to 4 would be pretty good. Even 12 hours isn't a deal breaker as we are normally done and home by 6pm most days, maybe 10pm once a week, and then out again no sooner than 6 am.

If anything I may want a 2nd charger so I can do 2 spots to charge as we have a split driveway and my wife prefers to park in front of the house, not in the garage. Maybe use the factory 120 up by the front door and get a 20 amp or so 240 charger for the garage if we need to turn and burn sooner.

I did remote "start" it this morning but not for very long, just as I approached it and then watched it for a minute or two to see how it acted. It did seem to be keeping up but the garage was still probably 50 degrees, not the 32 it was outside, and I didn't turn on the heated seat and steering wheel until I got in. If I remember right it was saying 5 kW was being used by the climate when I was driving to work. That would mean the 1.4 kW obviously doesn't keep up. I don't know how much the AC draws as I shut down the climate control as it was a perfect 61 this afternoon.

All this is probably academic as if my wife ends up being the primary driver on this, she will just use it like a regular minivan. She already calls it my "space" car and can't figure out why it doesn't start when you push the button. At least she says "my" meaning me, maybe she plans to keep using the old van.

We're coming into the most efficient part of the year to drive EV. Don't be shocked if your winter range is 2/3 of your summer range.

I just cancelled my hitch order. I saw in the manual where it still says towing not allowed with hybrid even though Mopar sells a hitch that fits. Apparently it's just for bike carriers and such. I think a small trailer in the wake would be no different than loading it up with 7 people but I'm not willing to blow warranty coverage just yet.

It also looks like kind of a PITA to install the factory one, and the aftermarket ones hang down pretty low.

Oh well, I still have different tow vehicles, Just my dream of getting 25 mpg or better with the teardrop is smashed for now.

What could be a reasonable motivation for the hybrid not featuring a towing capability?

Webasko has a clearance on their industrial 30amp EVSES

https://store.evsolutions.com/mobile...tions-c54.aspx

Reliable charger

Would I just get the one listed Canada 15' cord even though I'm not in Canada? The 15" should be good for me, the 240 outlet is right in the middle of the wall on the side the van charges on, even a 7 foot cord would be plenty. It shows free shipping and no tax so $249 is really good for a 30A.

Is that hardwired? I can't see much info on their page about it.

When the clearance started there were 30 different versions both corded and hardwired.

What is left, is whatever is left, I’m told the plug in version comes with an obscure obsolete plug nobody uses anyway

The "transmission" is totally different. That is the only weak link I could think of. Still a small trailer would hardly put a different load on it that say 7 fatbodies in it. I suppose Chrysler has to factor in the possibility of 7 fatbodies AND a trailer. Or people towing something with 80+ sqft of frontal area. The regular one says something like a 40 sqft frontal area limit already, basically probably a similar size to the van itself.

I may disregard this no towing thing, but not right off the bat, and probably not in the first 3 year of bumper to bumper warranty.

The new Jeep Wrangler PHEV has a 3500# tow rating but it still has the normal 9 speed auto and the electric motors are separate front and rear, not inside the CVT like the Pacifica.

You don't want to run US electrons in Canadian wires.

I know right. I think it just has the required French trapper language on the faceplate. Come on guys, give the beavers a break.

The Canadian version has an extra sticker in French rest is otherwise identical

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32092

Those so-called e-CVTs don't really seem to justify any restriction to towing.


AFAIK the Wrangler PHEV has both the belted alternator-motor and another motor between the ICE and transmission, replacing the torque converter just like the ZF modular motors fitted to some Volvo hybrid buses which underwent tests in my hometown around 6 years ago.

I've heard lack of tow rating isn't because engineering said no towing, but that they didn't test it.

I see a lot of people with PHEVs and EVs towing with vehicles that have no tow rating and haven't heard of an issue yet.

I've never owned a vehicle with a warranty though...

The first Corolla Cross that I spotted on the wild was a hybrid, so it's needless to say the HSD is conceptually similar to the e-CVT fitted to the Pacifica PHEV, and it didn't even have plates when it was fitted with a receiver hitch.

I watched a teardown of the transmission in the Pacifica and it's nothing at all like a CVT. It's all gears, no bands, clutches, or belts, that I can determine and looks very stout. The final gear looks stouter than that in a ford 9" rear end.

So what I think might be the limitation is how much cooling capacity it has, but then something all geared without slipping parts like a Ford 9" rear end doesn't need much cooling.

We'll see how reliable the whole van is for 2-3 years and then decide. If its problem free I'll add a hitch and keep it, if it's had to go in a bunch then I'll probably sell it and try something else.

https://youtu.be/rDPwQefY2KY

The transmission teardown

CVT is somewhat a misnomer on most hybrid electric cars. They call them eCVT. Technically it is a continuously variable transmission, only it accomplishes the ratio change by running an electric motor/generator at varying speeds in a planetary gearset linked to the ICE.

There's no reason why an eCVT should wear out prematurely even at high load, because the vehicle should be programmed to not operate outside of limits that would cause premature wear. This is why I was not worried to pull 1,800 lbs with my Prius (at slower speeds and plenty of stopping space).

I didn't know there was a difference until a few days ago when I watched that video (I probably should have watched before buying). I always thought all of these were just a CVT and thevE part ment attached to an electric motor. They really should totally change the name to just EVT or something else. CVT has a terrible reputation. I always used to reccomend against buying a car with one with the exception on the Prius. Then I started thinking well if Toyota can build a good one maybe I shouldn't write them all off. Now learning that maybe because they werent really building CVTs, but these ECVTs. Now I worry again about my mom's Subaru.

I don't know how best to differentiate the products, and really conventional CVTs shouldn't have a bad reputation because they should have been engineered to be at least as reliable as automatics (which already don't have great reputations). CVT and eCVT conveys the meaning though, that the transmission can maintain optimal ratio regardless of speed, and therefore improve fuel economy or performance.

I purposely steered a friend towards a Ford C-max because she drives like the throttle is an on/off switch, and kills automatic transmissions from all of the excessive shifting and forces. Since her manual shifting skills are even worse, I figured we might as well see how well eCVTs hold up. 2 years and no issues yet.

IIRC Chrysler actually refers to the setup fitted to the Pacifica as EVT, standing for electrically-variable transmission.

Mind that charging is not 100% efficient. Resistive losses, conversion to DC and pack voltage, charge monitoring and losses at the cell level reduce the actual efficiency to about 85%.

So while you may draw 1440 Watt from the panel only 1224 Watt goes into the pack. Then it would take just over 13 hours to fully charge an empty battery.

Also, the actual capacity of the battery will be bigger than it shows. Just like '100%' isn't entirely full, '0%' isn't completely drained. But while sitting uncharged it may well have dropped below the '0%' level...

Looks like the base trim can have heated seats and steering wheel added, so that's the only option I'd add. I don't care for integrated entertainment systems because technology is outdated so quickly. I can buy an Android tablet for $40, so I don't see much point in spending $3k on screens built into headrests.

Looks like with the $5k discount, the price would be $37,500. Between Oregon and federal subsidies, that's another $10k off bringing the price down to about $27,500k. That's getting into pricing territory I'd be willing to purchase a new van for. Unless I could get a good condition used one for $17k or less, I think new is the way to go in this case.

Mine is the base hybrid with only the cold weather group added, heated front seats, steering wheel, and leather wheel. A $495 option. Delivery is $1495 so total msrp is $42,285.

The base uconnect is really good as is the instrument cluster. There are a ton of options on how to configure things. The android auto just connects automatically to the phone in my pocket, brings up google maps on the screen, and starts playing my spotify playlist. It also connects to my daughters iphone if she is with me and then she can take over with apple CarPlay if she wants. I think the android looks better, apple looks like a cartoon.

It also has proximity key standard along with lane departure and auto correction, forward collision avoidance with auto braking, and adaptive cruise control.

Finally ran out of EV range today and had to switch to hybrid mode to make the last 10 miles home. Not bad overall have put 285 electric miles and 10 gas miles in almost 3 weeks. We are going to a wedding in Seattle in August so that will inflate my gas usage then. That's sort of the point, day to day I never need more than 35 miles, today we went out for a drive/hike and used a little gas on the way home. From what I understand it's going to go into a fuel refresh mode a few times of year anyway if you don't use the gas to burn up "old" gas.

95% EV isn't too shabby. I'd say that's the optimal use.

Workin' on kid #2 and friends all have kids too, so I think minivan makes sense.

I saw a grey one today, also hybrid. It does look quite good, unlike what we hear about "soccer-mom vans". Well, I have already been favorable to minivans for a while.

I do like the look better than the 2020 model, and both look better than the 2011 Chrysler we have. Before that we used to have a 2000 Grand Caravan Sport AWD which was pretty nice looking, and the 2021 takes a few hints of the 2000 model
https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digi...pg&w=580&h=370
https://medias.fcacanada.ca/jellies/...24cf2bab8d.png