Buying a Car
 

Hi everyone,
I was planning to buy a car within a year or so. Does anyone have any recommendations for an inexpensive, fuel efficient car? I'm willing to do inexpensive mods that aren't overly complicated. I will be driving mainly around town, at least two miles per day but probably not too much more. I was thinking about the 1994-2002 Saab 9-3/900, pre-2000 Honda Civics, and older Audi A4s, BMW 3s, and Subaru Imprezas. I live in an area with a long cold winter and AWD is beneficial but not totally necessary.

That's an odd list of cars from a fuel economy and winter driving perspective. I strongly recommend FWD, as that powertrain is lighter, more compact, and better on gas. A FWD with four snow (not all-season) tires is a good choice for winter. All cars are 0WD during braking, so an AWD car can get you in to trouble, but it can't get you out.

Certain Civics are favorites here at EM. They're thrifty and reliable cars. My vote would be for an old Civic hatchback with a stick, or a Civic HX if you can find one. However, if the previous owner attempted any "performance" modifications to the Civic, steer clear of it.

Also, how about a VW diesel, or a small Toyota, Mazda 323, Ford Escort, or Saturn S-series?

From experience, I can tell you that BMW are nice car, but cost a lot to repair/maintain. I'd say go for a stock Civic.;)

I can tell you mileage sucks on subarus, and there isn't that much room for improvement with out major mods (like taking out a set of axles). But they are great in the snow. My first car was a 92 legacy, with studded snow tires. I tried to get it stuck, but never managed to. My 99 impreza is not as good (too light & I need snow tires), but it gets better mileage (28 vs 25 with similar driving). Subarus are not too hard to work on or find parts for, and they always seem to start, and get you where your going.
That said, I'd recommend the civic.

My wife got around RURAL Alaska just fine in her ford escort front wheel drive. We have moved in from the real rural area and she is driving another escort, and I drive a Civic. Good winter tires and half a brain will keep you going just fine. Studs are not necessary in my experience with good snow tires.

I only had one day last winter that I could not get out of the driveway in the morning. 31 degrees and light snow on shoveled and packed snow. No going up hill on that from a stop. (father in-laws 4x4 truck would not go up a similar day a few weeks earlier) anyway a little work with a shovel and some salt thrown down got me out of the driveway in about 10 minuets.

Any of robertsmalls suggestions would be good for mileage. I have really liked my civics.

An AWD car can give you a sense of security that you don't really have. Stopping and steering work the same in FWD or AWD. There are situations where if you are smart a AWD can get you out of and they will get off the line better without slipping as much. I duno how much that will help in your situation.

as far a AWD vs FWD:with AWD you can drive too fast in the snow. It is harder to know when your driving too fast, as by the time you start slipping a little, your a slight twitch of the steering wheel away from a 360 (possibly into a tree). With AWD it's easier to control the slide so you miss the tree, but it's harder to regain full control. Stopping in the snow is similar with both, but engine breaking it not. Steering in the snow is a little better with an AWD if you know what your doing, you don't get the back end slipping as much.
But still, go with the civic or something similar (FWD, small, and Japanese), they are fine in the snow with good tires, and get better mileage.

Don't forget about Hyundai's. I think there reliability is just as good at Toyota or Honda but they are a few thousand cheaper. The new Hyundai Accent Blue is rated at the lowest cost per mile vehicle (beeting all the hybrids) because you can buy it new for 10K.

Hyundai's latest offerings may be worth considering, and are surprisingly good on gas across the lineup. There is no V6 option in the Sonata, for example. Instead, they're planning a turbo four. Their manual transmissions appear to be geared correctly for FE as well. But Hyundai/Kia built low quality cars until recently, and I can't recommend any of their older cars.

Maintenance and repair on the German cars you mentioned will eat you alive. The Audis and BMWs are great cars, but problems in them can get super expensive super quick. The newer Audi seems to have some of the best interior designs, though.

For daily thrashing, a nice cheap Civic would be my choice. I'm a Honda guy, though; been driving them since before I got my license. ;)

-soD

Why are the HX/VX Civics so much more efficient than the other trims? Also, do the Civic coupes seat five? I like the idea of a VW diesel but those are hard to find around here, so are Civics that haven't been modified(performance and ugly) to death. Does anyone know how Mazda Proteges and the older Imprezas that were FWD are? In terms of Hyundai/Kia, I think the models I can afford are older :(.

I paid $3500 for my 2004 Hyundai Elantra.

Lean burn. You can also get it in Honda hybrids with a 5 speed tranny, i.e. the Insight and 03-05 Civic Hybrid.

What's your budget? If you're looking for the best bang for your buck, get a 95+ Geo Metro 2 door 5-speed with the 1.0 3-cylinder engine. I picked my 95 up with 108,900 miles on it April 17th for only $1200 and it's in mint condition and runs like a new car and gets 50 MPG. I'm 6'2" and 250 lbs, so if I can fit and be very comfortable almost anyone can. The 94 and older Geo Metro's have very cheap interiors and are far from comfortable.

The HX and VX get fuel economy a number of ways. One, as mentioned, is lean burn in some circumstances. Another is relatively tall gearing. The engines are of relatively modest power and size, which also helps. They aren't optimized for top-end (high RPM) power, so they can work well in an operating regime that gets good MPG. I'm sure there are more reasons as well.

The Civic coupes will not seat five that I know of. The sedans (four-doors) can seat five, depending on how big they are and what year the sedan is.

Not sure on your other questions.

-soD

I highly recommend the Toyota Corolla. It is the most common car in the world. (Some 40 million Corollas have been produced worldwide)

I have a 1997 Corolla with 1.6L 3 spd auto, with 196,000 miles on it. I see so many of these cars still on the road. I purchased it with 134,000 miles about 5 years ago from a dealer for $4000 including Tax/Title/License. In this time my car has only not started once (loose battery cable).

1996 and 1997 models have OBD-II connectors. I am not sure about anything earlier. This is important if you want to connect a ScanGuage II or to get Check Engine codes.

What I like about it:

Toyota Quality - I work on the car myself. Everything is so easy to work on. It does not require a large tool set. It is not especially rugged or flimsy. Everything on the car was designed for economy, which is great for EcoModders. Classic Toyotas are known for longetivity. 200,000-300,000 miles on the original engine is not uncommon. Classic Toyotas are very reliable and are not subject to the current Toyota recalls.

Size - Compact - Great for fuel economy, but still much roomier than ultra-compacts like the Geo-Metro. Curb weight for a 1997 Corolla is around 2300 pounds (light enough for good mpg, heavy enough to have a good feel while driving). Later models are considerably heavier.

Engines - Available in 1.6 or 1.8 L for that year. MPFI, 16V DOHC

Transmissions - 3 speed (I don't recommend it, although I can still get great gas mileage), 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual

Tires - 185/65R14 or 175/65R14 stock. I run the 185s in a Pirelli P5 with 85,000 mile warranty. They cost $74 each for the tires. My ride is so smooth and I have nothing to worry about for a long time. I live in Texas. We have about the worst roads in the world. I understand the advantages to running an ultra-small wheel, but I think for safety it is better to run a normal size tire where I live.

Upgrades - There are actually a ton of aftermarket parts for Corollas. Parts for Corollas are usually pretty cheap because of how many of these cars that were produced. Most parts can be replaced by just removing a few bolts. (Like the suspension upgrade I just did. 6 bolts per strut, too easy)

Here is a Corolla with way too many upgrades: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/653609/9

Safety - Driver and Passenger air bags are available. Everyone in Texas has a giant truck. The corolla is the smallest car that I feel somewhat safe driving on freeways here.

But Ford now make cars of "equal quality to Toyota", HA HA HA. They sure dropped that slogan fast when that recall happened.

I have only good things to say about Toyotas, my mom had a 90, which is likely still running strong in a junkyard (rust ended it's long service to her), and she would have gotten another had it not been for their no AWD deal with Subaru.

I'm a believer in cheap old cars. I think you'll save a lot in the long run by buying a $2000 to 3000 car, rather than a 4000 dollar car (if you pick the right one that is). You will drop the value of the $4000 one to 2000 in a year or three, where as the $2000 one will never drop in value below $1000 if it keeps running. The key is finding a car that will never stop running, and is cheap to repair (not European).

What part of NY are you in, I'd be happy to suggest some cars on your area's craigslist.

If you have $4000 to spend, you are probably best to spend $2-3000 on the car, $100-200 to replace all the fluids and keep the rest as an emergency fund for repairs.

2 mile trips are absurd in a car. The engine barely warms up. A bicycle, OTOH, always starts, never gets stuck, and keeps you healthy.

Yeah thats what most of the civics I can find look like except for 2006 and newer models.

I would normally bike two miles, but its not practical for me to ride my bike to school when I have more stuff than will fit in a back pack and much of the year I'd be riding on sidewalks and streets that aren't plowed too well. Also, I don't really want to ride my bike home after track especially in the winter.

I know people who haven't had the best experience with Toyotas but I'm open to them. I know people who have had nothing go wrong with their Saabs and Volvos ('90s and older though) and got well above the EPA mileage but it could be that certain cars end up being more reliable than others.

I'm not going to tell you not to buy a car (I like 'em), but get a rack and a pair of saddlebags for your bike. I can fit a week's groceries in two saddlebags. I could also drop a backpack in one saddlebag, and a coat in the other. Taking the pack off your back dramatically improves the comfort of the ride.

I used to ride about four miles to school until the first snow accumulation. Then I'd hang up the bike until March.

And think of the bike you could get for two grand! Studded snow tires, sweet saddlebags, and no need for car insurance!

Just my 2p but I would avoid the temptation of Volvo and SAAB, especially the 9-3. Both are quite bad for FE and the 9-3 has loads of problems like dodgy steering (rack attached to the bulkhead).

took a quick glace at craig's list this is what I found:
Imprza high millage, but if you don't drive much you'll get your $700 worth

Geo prizm worth looking at

Subaru Legacy could be a good car for $1700, not much for MPG's but a good deal if it has less than 160K miles

I'd also recommend that prizm. They were toyota corollas with the badge changed, and excellent cars that last. I have several friends that have them, and even driving like a maniac will get 40 MPG.