Can't shake the low 20's
 

I can't seem to shake out of the low 20's in the Strawberry. Although I know I've improved I just can't get higher. My 90 day average is 23.79mpg, and my last 2 fills were 21.99 and 22.79. I was thinking about getting a block heater. Are these hard to install?

The block heater install tends to depend on the car, but it shouldn't be too hard.

I think the cold might just be getting to you. Ever though of trading in for a station wagon?

popimp - where do you live, and how long is a typical trip in the car?

If the answers are "somewhere cold" and "short", then a block heater would be worthwhile. You'll need something that packs a punch though - no wimpy 300w units.

I've installed a few and they vary from intermediate to difficult, depending on the type you get. (The best ones warm the coolant directly - vs. bolt-on or magnetic radiant heaters.)

I live in Fairfield California. The block heater I was thinking about getting is the OEM type that goes in the freeze plug. I only live .75 miles from work so I walk almost everyday, but when we go shopping we have to take the van. I haven't really thought about trading it in, because you usually lose when you trade in.

I owe about 8K on the van what would you recommend to trade it in for? I have two kids and another on the way.

Ouch. That is a killer commute. I think the EBH will make a big difference. I was getting almost 10% and that was for a long commute. How's the van doing on the 20w oil?

How long have you been tracking your FE? (I'm wondering if this is a seasonal slump.)

Are you significantly off your peak FE performance?

(PS - I can import your fuel log from the other place, if you'd like.)

And one more question I'll throw at you - how are you doing relative to others with the same vehicle? I know there aren't too many FE forum members driving Strawberries, but if you head over to fueleconomy.gov, you can search to see what "regular people" are getting in similar vans (if not identically spec'd vans).

Congratulations. The van can do fairly well but with that commute it going to be hard to get really good mileage with any car. I've had both a plymouth and a odyessy and was able to get around 27 mpg out of them but that was with a much better commute.

You're being sarcastic about the killer commute thing right? The 20W oil is fine. The recommended oil is 5W-20 but I use 0W-20. MetroMPG please do the import from you know where.

I try to walk to work since it's such a short distance.

I got these numbers off of the fueleconomy website.

Number of Vehicles: 4
Average User MPG: 20.7
Range: 19 - 22 MPG
Updated On: 12/18/2007



Hide Individual Estimates



Average MPG State Driving Conditions Estimate
Last Updated
Stop & Go Highway

1 22.0 NY 10% 90% 06/27/2006
2 20.7 PA 04/27/2006
3 21.3 MA 0% 100% 01/05/2007
4 19.1 MA 30% 70% 02/23/2007

Killer as in a bad way for FE but good as far as the environment and such. I guess I miss understood. I thought that you used the van to do shopping and thought that the distances traveled would be short, less than 5 miles. Which is a FE killer on a cold start. My apologies. :)

No need to apologize, I misunderstood. I live on base so everything is really close. I gave up on shifting from Drive to Neutral. Even though the RPM's go down according to the Scan Gauge 2, the load stays the same.

So any recommedations on wagons? It would need to fit 3 crying kids the wife and I and fit the strollers as well.

Subaru makes some good wagons. I wish they still made the accord wagon...a crossover suv might also work and get better mileage than the minivan...

Do you think it would make financial sense? I've had the van less than a year, it should be paid off in a little over a year. What are the Subarus costing? I wish I was still living in Japan so I could buy a cheap Civic.

Here's what I'd do: wait until the van's paid off, and there are a few used Mazda 5's on the market. Why Mazda 5? Because you can get it in a 5-speed, and even though (like most other manuals) it's geared to low for good FE on the highway, if you're a serious hypermiler, you simply can't beat a manual transmission.

Of course, I'm assuming both you and your wife would drive stick.

The 5 is rated city 22, hwy 27, but with the stick, you could kick butt on those numbers.

I think the majority of the time people drive by themselves, I would probably be better off buying a used Civic or CRX and using that as my vehicle, and use the van when it's all of us. So you're saying pay it off then trade it for a Mazda 5 or pay it off, keep it and buy a 5?

Well, before we go any further, what's your goal? Lowest overall fuel consumption, or to save $? The answer's going to be different depending on your goal.

If it's strictly a financial decision, you need to crunch the numbers. How much fuel would you have to save to pay for a second vehicle's insurance, repairs & depreciation, assuming you could double your fuel economy with an old Civic?

A buddy of mine keeps complaining about the cost of driving his (compact) pick-up. He wanted to buy my car. I told him if he did the math, he'd probably end up spending more money to buy mine than he'd save in fuel if he just keeps his truck.

Too bad we don't have a tool on the site that would help people make decisions like these. Right, Benjamin? :)

Suby's... I'm not sure, shouldn't be too bad, for a used one anyway. 20ish grand, can't be anywhere near the Suburu WRX which is around 30 new, so their new wagons (dubbed, sport wagons, which are actually good enough looking that they don't look like total station wagons) should be in the mid-upper 20's. Find maybe a 2004 used one, and check it. Do a KBB on a wagon. Believe it or not but SCC magazine did a review on one of their wagons for a track car on sunday, family hauler on monday thing and it scored the highest and stuff.

You'd probably get much better mileage in more longer drives. You're doing probably a lot more city driving for getting stuff. It's really hard in larger vehicles to see any improvement in city driving, but in highway you can see a large difference. I run low 20's and it's hard to shake it, I could probably do mids and uppers if I didn't have to factor in city with highway combined. You're not doing bad at all, On longer drives my mileage goes up, but stop and go is horrible.

I would say more for financial, but having a vehicle that can get really good FE might encourage others to shoot for higher numbers on their vehicles. Even though I'm doing my best with what I have, I don't think I could convert people with my current MPG numbers. People like to hear about the 40 and up MPG.

Oh, I didn't see the rest of the thread, if you really wanted to, I'd by a beater for yourself for a 4 banger or a 3 banger for like 500, and start saving some green. If you want to save money, but still have a family car to not be selfish, I'd get a beater for yourself to drive by yourself and when you wanna hang out with the rest of the family, drive the Van!

It's all relative. The super high numbers are fun to look at, but the reality is you're doing better than the 4 other drivers with the same vehicle who posted their numbers at fueleconomy.gov. That's what counts.

That's the plan, but right now the wife isn't going for it. She says I can walk 2 work, which is true and we don't need another expense (oil, gas, insurance, ect...) My come back is but I want it!

I just wish I could get together with you and SVO to find see where I'm going wrong and learn some new techniques.

Hey, I'm open to couch surfing in exchange for driving clinics in the southern US for the next couple of months! :P

AH, well it's worth it I think, insurance on like a ford festiva or geo metro shouldn't be much, oil won't be that bad and gas would be no prob if your getting 40's and 50's.

IF you really wanted to, I'd go and get a Mountain or Road bike. I'm Thinking about getting a Jeep Mountain bike for 179-300 depending on the funds and you get infinite miles per gallon on that one, only miles per effort!! ^_^

If you want to convert people talk about how many miles you displace from the car and how little gas you use.:)
I think one thing you need to keep in mind is that impressive numbers are great but your fuel usage is got to be down if you are walking to work. Someone that gets 40 mpg and drives 200 miles a week is burning alot more than someone who drives 50 and gets 20 mpg. Very few can post big numbers and low fuel usage(Metro/SVO:D).

My best mpg was 29 going from Las Cruces, NM to Luke AFB, AZ. The only real difference was using 86 octane gas instead of 87.

Mazda 5 sounds like a good idea.
Subaru has the 4wd system.
Of course that's nice for traction but it's bad for FE. More drivetrain mechanics going on, always. All those whirling gears add mechanical complexity and drag to the system.

A block heater sounds good too.
Plenty good comments on those on CleanMPG.com.
During the first few minutes after a cold start, a lot of energy goes into heating up the block. If you start out with a warm block you're way ahead of the game, as long as you have a good AC source and can set up a timer to run the heater for maybe 2-3 hours before you want to drive. The freeze-plug type heater is the way to go, is what I hear.

The cost of electricity to warm it is definitely less than the cost of the fuel that would do the same warming job. That math has been done several times.

Do you have a ScanGauge? Gives you a readout of real-time mpg. Those are supposed to be excellent for finding how to drive your car most efficiently. Works on just about anything '96 and later. Mine is an '89 so no-go for me till I get my next car.

I have an SG2