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-   -   Carbon brake rotors (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/carbon-brake-rotors-34902.html)

oil pan 4 02-23-2017 03:12 PM

Carbon brake rotors
 
I was looking to see what it would cost to replace the corvette C5 brakes on the front of my firebird with corvette Z06 ZR1 front brakes which weigh about as much as a saltine cracker.
Well they are about $1,400.
Each, just for a single rotor.
So scratch that idea.

nemo 02-23-2017 05:43 PM

Cheap a twice the price. :eek: Go for it. :rolleyes:

Frank Lee 02-24-2017 03:20 AM

And that is one reason why owning such a vehicle would cause me far more agony than pleasure. :/

hamsterpower 02-24-2017 06:50 AM

Weight is not the only factor here. Carbon ceramic brakes need to be hot before they work. Normal street driving would be very disappointing- even dangerous.

oil pan 4 02-24-2017 08:24 AM

If that is true then how did the brakes on the ZR1 performance package even make it on to a street driven mass produced vehicle?

hamsterpower 02-24-2017 08:58 AM

Because it is a "performance" package for a limited production/ special edition car. Just because something is available doesn't mean it works for everyone. Performance parts often make cars less usable on the street.

oil pan 4 02-24-2017 12:05 PM

I was told the same thing about ceramic brake pads too when they first started to become more widely available for street driven cars.

jamesqf 02-24-2017 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 534942)
If that is true then how did the brakes on the ZR1 performance package even make it on to a street driven mass produced vehicle?

Because there are enough people with more money than sense?

I'm having a little trouble wondering just how long those carbon brake rotors are going to last...

oil pan 4 02-24-2017 01:10 PM

If replacing cast iron rotors with carbon ceramic rotors anything like replacing steel bearings with ceramic bearings then the life is something like 2x to 4x longer on the ceramic.

oil pan 4 02-26-2017 02:19 AM

The newest generation ZR1 brake rotors use a reinforced carbon ceramic silicon carbide composite.
That just sounds expensive.
These are not the first generation carbon/carbon rotors that wore out quickly and only worked properly when very hot.
Supposedly the old carbon/carbon were better at very high temperature and the newer generation may not be as good at the top of the temperature limit but they are far superior when cold or street driven.

jamesqf 02-26-2017 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 535052)
The newest generation ZR1 brake rotors use a reinforced carbon ceramic silicon carbide composite.

OK, that explains why they might last a while. Sloppy language from people who don't understand basic chemistry or materials - like the ones who don't understand the difference between silicon and silicone. Calling them 'carbon' makes me think of e.g. the brushes in an electric motor.

gone-ot 02-26-2017 02:43 PM

...or, the pencil lead in a kindergartener's pencil?

oil pan 4 03-11-2017 01:49 AM

The individual front 09-13 carbon ceramic composite brake rotor weighs 13.5 pounds each.
A standard cast iron front rotor depending on the manufacturer will weigh between 30 and 40 pounds.
So it more than cuts the weight in half.
Mmmmmmm.

Stubby79 03-11-2017 05:40 AM

you could "downgrade" to the original C4 11" brakes...IRRC, they're about 14 lbs each.

Yup. http://www.rockauto.com/info/142/CE_12162020_Dra.jpg

oil pan 4 03-11-2017 08:23 AM

I like the C5 brakes. The C5 brakes on the firebird don't even care when I tow an 800lb trailer on the interstate and have to stop. My wife's car, a hyundai on the other hand gets pushed around a little more than I would like.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 03-11-2017 08:12 PM

Even though the overall weight savings may seem negligible at a first glance since it's going to be fitted into a street-legal vehicle instead of a race car, the presumably longer lasting and the enhancement to the safety seem to justify.


Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 535052)
The newest generation ZR1 brake rotors use a reinforced carbon ceramic silicon carbide composite.
That just sounds expensive.
These are not the first generation carbon/carbon rotors that wore out quickly and only worked properly when very hot.
Supposedly the old carbon/carbon were better at very high temperature and the newer generation may not be as good at the top of the temperature limit but they are far superior when cold or street driven.

I'm not so sure about any decrease in the high-temperature performance of the newer generation of carbon/ceramic compound brakes.

oil pan 4 03-11-2017 10:29 PM

If you keep it under 140mph the carbon ceramic rotors pretty much don't ever wear out according to the corvette track racing forums.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 03-12-2017 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 535872)
If you keep it under 140mph the carbon ceramic rotors pretty much don't ever wear out according to the corvette track racing forums.

Some wear might happen, though to a much lower extent. But anyway, keeping it under 140mph is not likely to be a hassle for the average Joe :D

oil pan 4 03-13-2017 01:00 PM

This is bugging me. Now I want to do it.
But I can't spend retail price on this stuff.

freebeard 03-13-2017 06:20 PM

Pfffft!

Get the iron rotors and send them out to for https://www.google.com/webhp?q=cryogenic+tempering+brakes.

I don't hope to re-find the article, but the TLDR was 'four times the service life, equally popular with police car maintenance departments and racers.' Here're mine (it doubled the part cost):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...5-100-0201.jpg

jamesqf 03-19-2017 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 536043)
'four times the service life, equally popular with police car maintenance departments and racers.'

But I bet no weight reduction, which is the important thing.

Outside of racing &c, how likely is it that a stock brake rotor is going to need replacing before the expected life of the car?

freebeard 03-19-2017 05:12 PM

The 'expected' service life is based on the the sum of service lives of the various components. Are drums and rotors not consumables?

My Superbeetle was 40+ years old when I uprated the brakes.

oil pan 4 03-19-2017 08:20 PM

Drums and rotors do have wear out measurements, a minimum thickness for rotors and drums a maximum diameter.
But most people don't bother to measure this when they replace pads or shoes.

I really want to do it now but the cheapest I can find the rotors, calipers and pads is about $3,400.
But the Jewish side if me can't let go of that much $.
Keep looking and maybe I can find a used set cheaper.

gumby79 03-20-2017 03:29 AM

1+ frozen Rotors they also can provide the rotors if you are getting new.
I put a set on my 91 Dodge back at 280k .
You were saying life expectancy 3 sets of pads with surfacing between ea average . 2nd set of Rotors for this truck. With pads at ~40k intervals.

RoadTripRob 03-20-2017 02:01 PM

I often try to disregard the purchase price as long as the running costs are low, but with these even the running costs are high so no way worth it. Even if you get a lot of track time its not worth it. Just a race car novelty

jamesqf 03-20-2017 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 536427)
My Superbeetle was 40+ years old when I uprated the brakes.

But the average age of cars on the road today is less than a third of that: 11.5 years per this Average age of cars on U.S. roads breaks record So does it make sense to spend a lot of money to extend the lifespan of the brake rotors far beyond how long you'd expect the car to last? Especially if there's no other benefit?

Add to that the fact that most of us here should be using our brakes far less than the average driver.

oil pan 4 03-20-2017 06:50 PM

Ha my car is already 28 years old.
I'm more interested in those rotors being larger and half the weight, lasting longer is just a side benefit.
When I hook the trailer up behind the car the brakes get a pretty good work out.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 03-20-2017 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 536441)
Drums and rotors do have wear out measurements, a minimum thickness for rotors and drums a maximum diameter.
But most people don't bother to measure this when they replace pads or shoes.

Many people still claim that drum brakes are "cheaper" and "longer-lasting", especially in the trucking industry. Maximum diameter? Sometimes they just put a thicker liner on it...


Quote:

I really want to do it now but the cheapest I can find the rotors, calipers and pads is about $3,400.
But the Jewish side if me can't let go of that much $.
I can totally relate to that.

oil pan 4 03-21-2017 12:26 AM

My trailer is getting drum brakes.
I really doubt that I will ever even wear out a pair of shoes unless something changes.

oil pan 4 03-21-2017 09:51 AM

I think I'm going to start my eBay selling again so I can buy these and at the same time eliminate some of the stuff I'm not using.

jamesqf 03-22-2017 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 536551)
Ha my car is already 28 years old.
I'm more interested in those rotors being larger and half the weight, lasting longer is just a side benefit.

My truck's 29. and AFAIK (I've only had it about 10 years) still on the original rotors. And it's often carrying loads, and/or descending steep mountain roads.

I think you misunderstood: I wasn't talking about the carbon rotors, which as you say do provide additional benefits. It's the freeze-treated ones that seem to offer nothing but extended life.

freebeard 03-22-2017 04:49 PM

I did it because I was tired of scoring on the rotors making them unusable before their time.

oil pan 4 03-26-2017 07:36 AM

Looks like if I resell all my left over car parts, especially the parts the VW dealership bought to trouble shoot my 1.8t bug (back in in 2015) I will have all most all the $ to buy a set of these front brakes. I better get ebaying.

oldtamiyaphile 03-29-2017 07:01 AM

Those rotors are the main reason I want Corvette suspension under my F1 pick up.

The cost isn't that bad considering you get reduced rolling inertia, reduced unsprung mass, reduced brake dust, no rust on your car etc.

Plus if they last like they say, you can always sell used rotors on.

oil pan 4 03-29-2017 04:07 PM

And they can't warp.

Problem is used ones go for almost as much as new ones since they don't really wear out or warp.
I have looked and looked to find what goes into the C5 to C6 ZR1 brake swap. Aside from having 18 inch wheels there isn't anything else I can find that says they won't be a straight swap.

oldtamiyaphile 03-29-2017 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 537320)
Problem is used ones go for almost as much as new ones since they don't really wear out or warp.

That's not a con, that's a pro. It means you can always get a good amount of your investment back. If you buy used it's essentially risk free other than shipping costs.

freebeard 03-29-2017 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
Those rotors are the main reason I want Corvette suspension under my F1 pick up.

The yellow one? :thumbup: But I'd be doing it for those shiny aluminum A-arms.

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225...yqLk7eTiBw.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/c4-corvette-front-suspension

18" minimum is no problem, that just means you can use 19" [red!] Model A wheels or chrome Chrysler wheels with Bridgestone Ecopias

http://assets.hemmings.com/story_ima...00-0.jpg?rev=1

http://www.bridgestone.com/corporate...3030502_01.jpg
ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/bridgestone-announces-large-diameter-narrow-tires-25208.html

oldtamiyaphile 03-30-2017 08:16 PM

Yes, the yellow one. Wire wheels hiding carbon ceramic rotors? Now that would surprise a few people :thumbup:

freebeard 03-31-2017 01:01 PM

Heh. Carbon-ceramic rotors, red (or chrome) wire wheels and 50-series tires. :)

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 03-31-2017 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile (Post 537393)
Wire wheels hiding carbon ceramic rotors? Now that would surprise a few people :thumbup:

That would be interesting to say the least.


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