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-   -   Champion hypermiler Gerhard Plattner (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/champion-hypermiler-gerhard-plattner-18042.html)

Piwoslaw 07-05-2011 10:43 AM

Champion hypermiler Gerhard Plattner
 
After reading about how he got 2006km on a single tank of fuel in a stock (though eco-) Škoda Fabia Greenline I looked for more info on record holding Austrian hypermiler Gerhard Plattner. Just Googling his name is enough to show that he is the recommended driver for any car company which wants to show how fuel efficient its new car is. If a certain model has broken a record or two, then Plattner was probably behind the wheel. Apparently the only mod he uses is higher tire pressure, through he does seem to prefer the eco versions with their slightly better aero. The rest is "just" ecodriving.

Worth noting are his Fuel saving tips, which may not be anything new for us, but are surprisingly extreme for tips aimed at the general public (engine off coasting, for example, or drafting at a distance). One of my favorite tips (which I can vouch for!):
Quote:

On open plain courses you can also use the slipstream of a truck to save fuel. Plattner: "About 30 metres behind the truck a kind of suction is created. Once in the United States I tried this with a Volkswagen Golf. The consumption decreased two litres. Unfortunately this technique is very difficult in Europe, because if you keep a distance of 30 metres somebody will overtake and move into the gap infront of you."
Would anyone care to invite him over?

kach22i 07-05-2011 11:44 AM

convert meters to feet
30 M = 98.43 FT

That's 5-6 car lengths which is a recommended minimum highway speed spacing, right?

I would have thought a much closer distance would be optimal, as drafting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drafting_(aerodynamics)
Quote:

Drafting or slipstreaming is a technique where two vehicles or objects align in a close group reducing the overall effect of drag due to exploiting the lead object's slipstream.
This "suction" he talks about must be something different.

Angmaar 07-05-2011 12:34 PM

1,200 miles on a single tank is inspiring. I would be amazed if I could get half that.

pletby 07-05-2011 12:43 PM

Pretty good read.

California98Civic 07-05-2011 03:08 PM

DWL, 68mph, and coasting.
 
He recommends about 68mph on the highway (110kph). I suppose my civic would be up at about 3000rpm and would probably be in the vicinity of at least 70% load. I wonder about coasting down to 55 and accelerating with load to 68mph (rinse and repeat). Do any of you do this? You would yield an average speed higher than 55 for sure, probably well over 60, and you might reap FE benefits? EOC is a bit dodgy on the freeway. Does anyone do that? I am suggesting neutral coasting, engine on.

mnmarcus 07-05-2011 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 248525)
He recommends about 68mph on the highway (110kph). I suppose my civic would be up at about 3000rpm and would probably be in the vicinity of at least 70% load. I wonder about coasting down to 55 and accelerating with load to 68mph (rinse and repeat). Do any of you do this? You would yield an average speed higher than 55 for sure, probably well over 60, and you might reap FE benefits? EOC is a bit dodgy on the freeway. Does anyone do that? I am suggesting neutral coasting, engine on.

I get into sixth and "pulse" to five over, coast (in gear no gas pedal) down to the speed limit and repeat. Once every couple of weeks someone will be next to me and may wonder what the heck I'm doing. I usually just slow a bit so they can pass before they notice my speed is changing.

I used to coast in neutral, but now I coast in gear (I think the fuel cuts off when in gear versus a little fuel is used when in neutral to keep the engine on). I'll turn the engine off and coast in neutral to a stoplight (key to on for lights and steering). 1/3 the time I'll have to bump start to go when I get to the light, 1/3 I'll be sitting for 30 seconds+, 1/3 I'll come to a stop and have to start in less than 10 seconds (that ones the bummer).

Right now I'm pretty close to 30 mpg(combined) with my Vibe GT. Edmunds says 22/28. Before any hypermilling techniques I could get her down to 20 (or less!) I just had a couple of draging brakes fixed so hopefully it'll go up a bit more.

Piwoslaw 07-06-2011 03:38 AM

@Cali98Civic: What surprised me was recommending that the engine speed should be in the 2k-3k rpm range without adding that this is for a petrol engine. This is still highish, I read that the range should be more like 1500-2500rpm, while a diesel should stay below 2k rpm. As for the high speed (110 km/h), I try keep 80-100 km/h on the highway, but this may not suite everyone. He's trying to get to the general public, so 110 instead of the 120-150 that most people are doing is easier to get through than recommending 90. Also, when he does his eco-runs he may be aiming for a relatively high average speed, and bumping it up on the highway allows him to go slower in traffic, which probably works for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnmarcus (Post 248543)
I get into sixth and "pulse" to five over, coast (in gear no gas pedal) down to the speed limit and repeat. Once every couple of weeks someone will be next to me and may wonder what the heck I'm doing. I usually just slow a bit so they can pass before they notice my speed is changing.

I used to coast in neutral, but now I coast in gear (I think the fuel cuts off when in gear versus a little fuel is used when in neutral to keep the engine on).

You're not coasting in gear as much as you are engine braking. In 6th it may not be noticeable, but the drag is there. Coasting in gear works well when you have to keep your speed under control while going downhill, but on the flats you should be coasting in N. If you engine off coast then you get the best of both worlds. I believe that someone here has tested that the extra coasting distance in neutral more than makes up for the fuel used to idle the engine.

California98Civic 07-06-2011 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw (Post 248618)
He's trying to get to the general public, so 110 instead of the 120-150 that most people are doing is easier to get through than recommending 90.

You must be right. I tried what I described on a 10 mile freeway run I had to drive last night. I jogged from 55-65mph, and I scored significantly higher ave MPG than cruising at 55. I got 53.5mpg for the freeway portion, while cruising 55 would normally offer an average about 51 or 50. My ave speed must have been better (forgot to track it). I would not win contests or become a "champion" with this technique. But it is a bit better for sure.

99metro 07-06-2011 09:01 AM

"If possible you should step on the gas on the steep counter-hillside. And then, when you are driving uphill, don't change the position of the gas throttle anymore; even if you slow down a bit. Accelerating when driving uphill really wastes a lot of fuel! One of the reasons why it is very important to think ahead when driving."
*****
Wow. And here I thought I was the only one who did this.

usergone 07-06-2011 09:23 AM

Quote:

A car consumes the least at the highest gear with around 2000 to 3000 rpm, explains fuel saving record driver Gerhard Plattner:
Does this mean I get to drive everywhere between 70 and 110? :p I don't think that counts as safe with 3 tons and less than sporty brakes

ChazInMT 07-06-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 248525)
He recommends about 68mph on the highway (110kph). I suppose my civic would be up at about 3000rpm and would probably be in the vicinity of at least 70% load.

Uh, how do you figure 70% load at 60mph? If you are not going uphill, you'd only be at 20-30% of the rated torque, thus load. Any more load and you'll be accelerating.

California98Civic 07-06-2011 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChazInMT (Post 248728)
Uh, how do you figure 70% load at 60mph? If you are not going uphill, you'd only be at 20-30% of the rated torque, thus load. Any more load and you'll be accelerating.

Correct. I'm accelerating. I was not clear. Accelerate in fifth, then decelerate in neutral, then repeat.

endurance 07-06-2011 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 248499)
convert meters to feet
30 M = 98.43 FT

That's 5-6 car lengths which is a recommended minimum highway speed spacing, right?

I would have thought a much closer distance would be optimal, as drafting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drafting_(aerodynamics)


This "suction" he talks about must be something different.

That's definitely the sweet spot for me. I'm completely comfortable in the 75-100' range and you can hear and feel the difference in air flow over the car. You can watch the LOD drop and the MPG climb as soon as you crawl into the slipstream. I had a 77 mile stretch behind a semi once that averaged 48.8mpg at an average of 69mph. That included some bits over 80mph and some city-highway traffic around 60mph.

You don't have to get into the stupid-zone to get great mpg gains. All you need to do is enter into the disrupted airflow and low pressure zone and you make impressive gains.

ChazInMT 07-06-2011 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 248739)
Correct. I'm accelerating. I was not clear. Accelerate in fifth, then decelerate in neutral, then repeat.

Glad yer not CraaaZzzzZy like the rest of us!:D

Cd 07-06-2011 10:14 PM

Thank you very much for this article Piwoslaw. You always have good information to share with the group !

BTW, I find it amazing that the roof top luggage box was left on when he did one of his runs.

Arragonis 07-08-2011 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endurance (Post 248753)
That's definitely the sweet spot for me. I'm completely comfortable in the 75-100' range and you can hear and feel the difference in air flow over the car. You can watch the LOD drop and the MPG climb as soon as you crawl into the slipstream. I had a 77 mile stretch behind a semi once that averaged 48.8mpg at an average of 69mph. That included some bits over 80mph and some city-highway traffic around 60mph.

You don't have to get into the stupid-zone to get great mpg gains. All you need to do is enter into the disrupted airflow and low pressure zone and you make impressive gains.

Yep, I think slipstreaming is dumb because of the danger of emergency stops of debris from the vehicle in front's tyres. Keeping to the "2 second rule" (pick a point at the side of the road, count 2 seconds from when the vehicle in front passes it until you do. Less than 2 seconds you are too close) still means gains in my experience - the air vents go quiet and you can ease off the throttle with no loss of speed.

If someone fills the gap then that is usually because they are lane changing to exit or enter a motorway. My attitude is let them do this, it means you concentrate on them whilst they concentrate of getting to the outside lane asap and may not be watching you. And it means people can merge on/off without you braking.

savefuel 02-12-2013 02:34 AM

One's for sure: doing 68 mph gets a much lower mpg than doing 55! Even Gerhard can't beat physics...

AndrzejM 02-12-2013 04:02 AM

Thanks Piwoslaw,

I think that's the best paragraph is:
Quote:

Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
I like it :thumbup:

savefuel 02-12-2013 10:13 AM

constant travelling speed versus mileage
 
One's for sure: doing 68 mph gets a much lower mpg than doing 55! Even Gerhard can't beat physics...

Shooting for Guinness World Records one has basically to figure out at which speed a specific car gets the best mileage. With most cars that speed is somewhere between 60 and 90 km/h (37 - 56 mph). Now, european trucks generally travel at 89 km/h (ca. 55 mph, yes they usually exceed their 80 km/h speed limit by 10+ %). Hypermilers would have to travel that speed in order not to disturb traffic flow on the RH lane. Yes, it's a sport and a lot of concentration is needed to shoot for best mileage. It's a sportier way of driving than putting 'the pedal to the metal'.

As Gerhard is generally averaging 75 - 80 km/h on his record drives, his highway speed would be closer to 90 than 110 km/h. Each km/h above 90 will reduce mileage by ca. 1%

Arragonis 02-12-2013 12:42 PM

This is old.

euromodder 08-05-2013 09:30 AM

Gerhard does it once again. On CNG this time.
 
Over 2600km on less than 100 euro worth of CNG

Using a Skoda Citigo CNG - a half-brother to the VW up Ecofuel (and my GasDwarf) - Gerhard Plattner has driven 2619km from Vicenza, IT over the Alps, through 9 countries all the way to Stockholm, SE , merely using 2.39kg CNG / 100 km (NEDC : 2.90kg/100 km) and costing less than 100 euro overall .

Doing it on 100 euro (max) was the challenge - but he still had 9.93 euro in change and enough gas to go another 300km or so ...

Best tank : 2.04kg/100km

All CNG must have been H-Gas (CNG with High caloric value) though, to achieve this kind of numbers.


Looks like I have a long way to go ... even if we account for the lower energy in L-Gas (CNG with Low caloric value).

OTOH ...
I've done 7150 km on 50 euro (CNG and 2 US gal petrol) :cool:

Even if only because I'm about 1/3rd into the 500 euro CNG credit that I got from DATS24.be - the leading CNG supplier in Belgium - when I bought the CNG up! :rolleyes:

euromodder 08-05-2013 10:07 AM

What I'd more interested in, is HOW he got that low a gas consumption.

But I'm not sure VW / Skoda even want to go there ...

They claim the car wasn't modified, but I'm pretty sure he ran considerably "higher than recommended by Skoda" tyre pressure :p

RedDevil 08-05-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 248499)
(about slipstreaming a semi ... )
That's 5-6 car lengths which is a recommended minimum highway speed spacing, right?

I would have thought a much closer distance would be optimal, as drafting.
Drafting (aerodynamics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) (link fixed)
This "suction" he talks about must be something different.

I slipsteam semis a lot at a greater distance than GP advices as I apply the 2 seconds rule.
What I find that if I come too close (less than 10 meter) the air becomes very turbulent. That reduces aerodynamic efficiency and increases resistance, so much so that when I leave the car in cruise control mode (which in eco mode responds slow to lowering speeds) makes it lose speed and self corrects the distance.

The benefits from slipstreaming at a distance are small, but noticeable. But low speed is the real winner. Most of all the presence of the semi provides a legit reason to drive slower than the rest of traffic, which is eager to overtake that semi anyway.

Drafting close by would only work if you draft really close, as like on the towhook. Needless to say that is not a safe driving strategy.

savefuel 08-07-2013 10:51 PM

Riding with a higher tire pressure does not count as a vehicle mod. Everybody can run his car at a optimum tire pressure for better fuel economy.
Gerhard Plattner most probably is the world's most experienced longtime hypermiler!

Mustang Dave 08-07-2013 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDevil (Post 383665)
...But low speed is the real winner. Most of all the presence of the semi provides a legit reason to drive slower than the rest of traffic, which is eager to overtake that semi anyway....

That is my basic strategy for driving southern California freeways.
Let the other drivers enjoy their rat race. Even if they win, they're still rats. :)


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