Cheapo HID Headlight Efficiency
 

I've only ever bought cheapo HID ballast/igniter combos. My last pair were only $30 shipped. I expected them to be fairly poor quality at that price. I'll usually lose a ballast after about 6 years of use. The HIDs were rated at 35 watts, 4500k color, and purchased from DDM Tuning.

I measured the current consumption last night and was shocked to find that 1 light pulled 47 watts! It didn't matter much what voltage I ran it. I measured current and voltage 3 different ways, and on 2 different power sources, and they all showed about 47 watts consumption after 5 minutes runtime. This is the same wattage as a halogen while barely outputting more light.

I'm willing to pay a bit more for lights that last longer and are more efficient. If they last a long time, I think it justifies the extra expense since I could even put them in a different vehicle if I sold the car.

My Prius came with H11 projector halogens, so I'm looking to replace the lights with something compatible with H11 and projectors. Is now the time to go LED rather than HID? Any recommendations for either LED or HIDs that are reasonably priced, long lasting, efficient, and put out more light than standard halogens?

I don't think I would ever use aftermarket headlights, that said, i do greatly prefer HID over halogen.

The cheapo $30 HIDs I'm running are an improvement over the nearly worthless halogen that came stock. They work well in the projector housing with excellent beam pattern and cuttoff. I'm currently running 1 halogen and 1 HID since a ballast just died, and the beam patterns are identical, with more light output coming from the HID.

That said, I went to the "expert" candlepowerforums, but the mods censor discussion so much that there is no useful info. They only allow discussions that support their belief that HIDs are an inferior intermediate technology between halogen and LED. While HID likely is an intermediate technology, it would be good to learn what makes a good vs bad ballast, and who makes good kits.

Have you considered HIR lamps (Halogen Infrared)? They're a relatively new type of halogen that produce about 50% more light per watt than regular halogens, and they have a good hour rating. I used some 9006 HIR replacements in an Acura Integra for about 6 years before I sold the car. I think they were the same wattage as stock (55W?), but quite a bit brighter. I don't know if you'll be able to find some that are lower wattage than stock.

I hadn't heard of HIR until you mentioned it. Seems they aren't made in the H7 size, otherwise I'd look into that.

I'll probably just throw a spare ballast back into the Prius and keep running these cheapo HIDs till I run out of spares. Hopefully in 6 years good LED replacements will be available.

I'm wondering if the 35 watt rating of the HIDs means to the bulb, with 12 watts lost to the ballast? Now I'm curious if even expensive HID units draw less power. Perhaps I can measure the stock HIDs in the Acura to answer this.

My H11 cheapo HIDs in my 2nd gen Insight hold up fairly well for over 5 year now.
One lamp failed quickly, but I had a replacement. The ballasts are original.
They are easily 4 or 5 times as bright as the halogens they replaced. If I have to replace them I'll most likely go for HID again.

Then user Natalya has just installed LEDs in her G2 Insight and they look the deal:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/2010-insight-hyper-black-34574-5.html#post563527
http://www.lady-natalya.info/ZE2/led-headlights-b.jpg

Some more on that on InsightCentral (but the photo's won't show if you're not a member):
What did you do to your G2 Insight today? - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

Not as cheap, but affordable nonetheless. The heatsinks on them are wide but not deep.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/more...ink/4445/9995/

I've got a question. Are you supposed to use a capacitor in series with the LED light so they don't generate so much heat?

OEM LED's flash on and off quickly, you sometimes see it on video.

Edit: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...HbtmO41mrwRCW6

I tested the assumed bad ballast today with a known good bulb, and it works just fine. Looks like either the bulb died, which I haven't experienced yet, or there was a loose connection. My test bulb is the wrong size, so I'll have to order a new H11 set.

Are there major differences in quality or efficiency in bulb brands? I'll stick to the 4,500k range. Any recommendations on a replacement bulb?

I thought the capacitor was to reduce interfering noise that can mess with the computers.

If you don't mind getting your hands dirty, these are the best you can get right now. $100, and they'll last the life of the car and then some, with known OEM quality.

I use these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J6YGGZ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Bought these in 2016 and they still work. They literally just plug in. Only weird part is the do have fan noise at park after running around (bc they are hot).

Found these : https://www.lightinthebox.com/h8-h9-...l?prm=1.1.92.0
For that money, I'm tempted...
Could always use them in the fogs (H11 too) if the pattern spread is no good or what.

Update:

Both the ballast and bulb were found to be working. My dad had just assumed the HID bulb had died and took it out rather than check the connections. While doing that he cracked the ceramic insulator, but it seems to work just fine. I'm always trying to implement new technology on my vehicles when something breaks, and my dad is always rushing out to buy the old part at full price before I get a chance to try it my way (bought 2 Pb batteries for the truck before I could put in my supercap, bought halogen bulbs before I could diagnose HID, bought a Pb battery for the Acura before I could experiment with a LiFePO4).

Anyhow, I bought H11 LED bulbs from Amazon, and the light output was just slightly less than my HID, but the real problem was the mounting tabs were impossibly fragile and all broke off immediately. Also, the beam pattern in the projector lens was unacceptable. I sent them back.

That said, I tried the same LED bulbs in H7 formfactor for my motorcycle in a reflector housing, and the beam pattern is good and light output much better than halogen. I ripped out the HID kit on the bike and will try the LEDs out. The best part, power consumption is much less than advertised. I measured 15 watts, and they are rated to draw 25 watts each. That's 1/3rd of the power consumed by the old HIDs.

Here's what I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wanted a passive cooled LED since fans are susceptible to failure, and I don't want the noise on my motorcycle.

As for the HID power consumption, I suspect the HIDs truly consume only 35 Watts. At 47 Watt total, the ballasts would be 75% efficient, which is lowish for DC-DC converters, but ballasts are a special case anyway.

I never considered this though. I might try out LEDs for the hell of it, but I need the fanless copper braid type as the bulky fan types are impossible to mount.
I read the braid isn't always electrically insulated, so I'd put them in a net to prevent them touching metal.

Let me know how that type works out. You might just test the braids to see if they are electrically connected or not, because I would promote airflow to them as much as possible, including not using a net. These suckers get hot. The heatsink on the one I purchased is untouchable after a couple minutes use. I should get a temp reading to see what it gets up to.

I think LEDs are the way of the future, though there are drawbacks still.

I've been running a DDM tuning kit in my Insight for several years now. Recently I was curious about LEDs and purchased an H1 kit to stick in my H1 projectors. Turns out the LED "bulbs" are too big around and don't fit into the projectors. When I have an actual failure, I might look for the smallest diameter LED bulbs and drill out the projectors a bit to make them fit, but until then I'm sticking with my 35w HIDs.

Good to know about the low efficiency of the ballasts, that's something I've wondered. Light output is significantly better though, so I'm not complaining.

The reason electrical consumption is of concern to me is that I run a supercap only in my motorcycle. Headlights rapidly deplete my 400f caps connected in series, leaving me with about 10 seconds to start the bike from switching it on. The lower power consumption of the LEDs will double my starting opportunity.

I wasn't tempted enough by then. But that was way back when those lamps were still, you know, EXPENSIVE...! ;)
Now I bought these:

https://www.lightinthebox.com/nl/p/s...prm=1.18.104.0

https://i.imgur.com/2nsMrKI.jpg

(that text writer must be a professional comedian)

Special offer, it was less than €9 including shipping...!
Surely that cheap can't be any good, but worst case I would still have had a story to tell.

I tested them. They draw less than 0.8 A so less than 10 Watt. You can barely hear the fans. They get lukewarm and the heat spreads quickly down to the fins and fan. I doubt the fan is even necessary.

Logically, the light yield isn't great (comparable to a 55 Watt halogen lamp, but neutral white) nor confined enough to be of use as a headlight. They do fit, easily even, but are nowhere near as bright as the HIDs - nor as neatly cut off. The stray light did not seem to be a blinding problem in the projectors, but still it is worse than the HIDs even though the HIDs are at least 5 times brighter within their beam.
So a no go. Worse than halogens (more stray light) and worse than HIDs (nowhere near as bright).
Fair enough, I did not expect anything else for the money.

But then I have fog lights, which had H11 halogens just like the original low beams. Where the halogens are underperforming in the low beam projectors, they do a reasonable job in the fog reflector lamps. Except when having HIDs in the low beams they have little to add...

Now my kids Scouting group resides on a fortress island surrounded by a serrated moat, and access is by a narrow one-way road adjacent to that moat. At night unlit bikers and pedestrians travel it and can't be seen round the corners, as the low beams are relatively narrow.
DRLs with a spread to the side would be ideal. And the fogs do spread wide.

So I wanted to use the fogs as DRLs, but the OEM halogens in them are too bright for that. I tried some cheapo LED replacements, but they were blueish, not bright enough and rapidly failing. A second pair of different LEDs were better, but in the end they too failed.
These LEDs however are twice as bright as the last attempt. As DRLs they are on a par with the brighter of the OEM LED DRLs around here.

https://i.imgur.com/wYW6dGd.jpg

By day they are very noticeable but won't blind anyone. By night they may be on edge, but I'd only switch them on when I need to then.

https://i.imgur.com/HDVHr6A.jpg

As you can see they do have a low and wide spread. This will definitely help me safely round the moat.

As I read the thread, I was going to mention the issue of the light spread with LEDs, but it appears you've already discovered it.

My best guess - since I haven't tried it - is that you want to try LEDs that are aligned like your OE bulb is. If your filament runs side to side, the LEDs should too, and if your filament runs front to back, your LEDs should too. Otherwise I doubt it will throw the light anywhere near close to the direction the reflectors are designed to work with.

Again, I haven't tried it yet, but it seems logical that these flat & wide LEDs have little chance of throwing the light in the correct direction(s). Especially when it comes to high/low beams, which are on separate filaments with slightly different locations within a bulb, allowing for a tighter or a wider beam depending in which is active.

These cheapo bulbs would probably be fine for a car that never leaves the city or otherwise never needs the high beams, and will definitely cut back on power consumption. Plus it will take a long time for the efficiency to repay $100 if its only saving you a few cents per tank of gas...mostly of benefit to people going alternatorless to increase run-time between charges.

These LEDs are not suited for use in headlight units, just as I expected. The 'filament' is too large to allow for sharply defined beams.
(H11 lamps are single filament anyway. These probably would work as high beams, but my high beams use a different lamp type)

They are marginally usable as fog lights, depending on the fog light housing.
Their light output just isn't enough to justify their use as fog lights.

They are fit to use as DRLs in most fog light housings. Which was what I was looking for.
If these don't fail prematurely I'm very happy indeed.

They are too bright to use (in the fog lights) when dark. When I flip them on I see everything light up. Easily 10 times more stray light than my low beams at eye height.

Still, that's nowhere near what my high beams do. They are perfect in between. A nuisance to other road users at worst, like when it is dark, but not really blinding.

The best news is this:
Someone out there is able to fabricate H11 LED lamps that do put out as much light as a 55 Watt halogen bulb for just € 6.04 a pair - cheaper than many halogens.
Then it should be possible to make them with smaller high-power LEDs in a area no bigger than a lamp filament for a reasonable price. Those could properly replace halogens...

I replaced my motorcycle headlight bulb with an LED. It wasn't any more expensive than an actual incandescent bulb would have been, under $7. It works better/brighter than the weak 30-watt bulb it replaced. The LED points up, so the light hits the reflector and bounces forward and down, rather than all over the place, so it has a nice cut off. Guess that's one benefit of most motorcycles using a similar bulb/reflector?

Do you have reflector or projector headlights?

I found that the LEDs I used had acceptable cutoff in a reflector housing, but not projector.

They are projectors.
They had a sharp cutoff and almost no stray light at all with the OEM halogens, which was a problem as we don't have side running lights over here. AFAIK they are the same units used for Insights with OEM HIDs.
My aftermarket HIDs have a sharp cutoff and little stray light too.
These oversized LEDs don't. The beam seems less bright than even halogen, but that's 'compensated' by ample stray light.

This morning somebody nearly cut me off. I wasn't using the LEDs in the fogs, just the HID low beams - and he clearly had not seen me...
I will (also) use the LEDs permanently from now on. They seem too bright at night when the low beam HIDs are just on, as those don't have their full brightness at first - especially when it is this cold. But once the HIDs are at full strength the LEDs are just a bit brighter to the eye than the HIDs above the cutoff, so not really blinding.

There is a tiny color difference; my HIDs are 5000K, the LEDs more like 6000K. Apart from each other both look neutral white, but the HIDs lean slightly towards yellow. Most small '6000K' LEDs look blueish white, these don't.

As mentioned in post 12, my experience with LEDs in an H11 projector housing was scattered light, and with HID, it cut off correctly.

With my very limited testing, my assumption is that LEDs are generally ok in reflector housings, but not in projector housings.

The problem remains that the LEDs are generally bigger than the filament or discharge chamber of a halogen or HID lamp. As reflectors are bigger, the dispersion is less prominent, but it is there.
My fog lights have reflectors, but the dispersion is distinctly different from what it was with the halogens, even though the center of the LEDs is where the filament would be.

I'm tempted to buy another set of LED lamps that have big solid cooling fins and tiny LEDs. €15 now... Never seen them that cheap. Problem is I really don't need them :)

I like the DDM Tuning kits at around 4500K. They have some of the best engineering of the bulbs to put the "fire" in the same place as the halogen that the reflector/ projector was designed for to get acceptable cut off. They are way brighter that halogens. These kits are also so inexpensive in the USA. A prime example of China's currency manipulation. $35 for all of that hardware? That is less than a good pair of halogens. And they will last 5 times as long.
.
The problem with LED headlight replacements is that in order to make enough light, the emmiter is way bigger than the filiment the housing was designed for. Which usually causes the pattern to spray. And most LED bulbs have a huge heatsink or fan which won't even allow the access cover to be reinstalled so you are stuck with the chance of getting water in the housing.

The DDM LED emitters look narrow enough, but like all LEDS the heat sink in between takes up space so they are still 1-2 mm away from the center line.
I like thesehttps://li0.rightinthebox.com/desc_i...2949317634.jpgas the LEDs are small, seem close to the center, are covered so nothing can damage the emitters and have fanless heat sinks.

My lamp housings don't have a back cover. The engine bay is covered under so not much dirt or moisture finds its way in.

In fact I just ordered them, for the hell of it :)
I just want to see what they are like, if they are any better than my cheapos or not.

If they really are much better they might replace my HIDs. Then I may buy their H4 counterparts for my wife's car. But they need to be reliable - replacing the lights in a I10 means dismounting the lamp housings themselves...

I think they are still going to spray vertically in most housings. The emitters are in a longitudinal array.

The filament of halogen lamps is mounted longitudinally too.
The reflectors reflect this (sorry for the pun) in the spread pattern.

But we'll see. The cheapos were in within 2 weeks of ordering.

Voltaic usage doth furrow my brow wherefore I do cause to ambulate a device, viz. "supercap" solely in my motor-driven cycle. Lights of the head do most expeditiously tire themselves of mine 400f upper regions allied in sequence, apportioning my most glorious personage with nigh 10 seconds to engage the motor-driven velocipede from the onset of its genesis. The fractional puissance-drinking of the L.E.D. wilt enlarge magnificently my germinal odds.

Canadian moon lamps suck, buy American.

No thanks.

Can we ban davis54 already?