Civic HX, what are the best years?
 

If I want a very efficient Civic, then the HX is the best model, correct?

If so, what are the best years to look for?

Is there a hatchback version?

Thanks

Technically, the 88 CRX HF is the best stock (nonhybrid) civic around. But it generally goes like this:

Hybrid > CRX > VX > HX

CRX was a hatchback in all trims.
Civic VX, offered from 1992-1995, was a hatchback.
Civic HX, offered from 1996-2005, was a coupe.

Don't forget the 92-95 Honda Civic CX hatchback.

the Hx is the safest one out of the bunch though, it also has the most creature comforts.

The Vx is lighter and a bit harder to find. But from what I have heard from certain inside sources is that its not as aero as a coupe.

I have an HX
 

I have an HX and I'm getting 42 mpg (tank averaging) for the last 4 tanks. The thing you want to consider most when looking at what car you want is year and safety and looks. Hybrids are too expensive and I hate the way CRX's look so I knew it was a VX or HX for me (the newer the better cause newer generally = safer and less miles = less problems in the near future)

Then I considered that the 96+ models were the next generation up so probably a little safer with standard airbags and also OBD II. Therefore I started looking for HX's and found one (5 speed). (Although I actually preferred the hatchback VX but there pretty hard to find)

One thing you must know before you dedicate yourself to a model because of fuel gains others seem to be getting is your willingness to change your driving style. I haven't seen anyone getting 40+ out of stock HX's that much and it's pretty much because I have to drive like a grandma (always try to stay below ~2000 rpm and 0-60 is in the 40-60 second range giving light engine load, better FE)

The moral of the story is you can rate cars if you want but it all depends on your discipline/driving style. This is a hard lesson I've learned and hopefully you can learn from me as well. I actually enjoy driving 65 on the interstate now. I used to go 85 but I've found that slowing down has actually calmed me down on the road. I just save my speed kicks for my streetbike now.;)

Is anyone else on ecomodder getting 40+ out of a stock HX? I was going to do a bunch of mods and copy AndrewJ/Basjoos's genius work but that's until I found out I hit my mpg goal with my car stock. (44+ mpg) Of course now I'm carpooling so I get 80+ :D

60+ is possible in a stock Hx

I shift @ 2000-2200 rpm and always accel @ 1-4 inches of vacuum (about 70% throttle). My Hx has a shorter geared Ex tranny and is costing me a few mpg's but my best has been almost 68 mpg :thumbup:

The real fun part is manipulating the throttle to stay in lean cruise.

With vg's, grill block, vx tranny, stock wheels with LRR tires, belly pan, rear skirts, deleted mirrors and wipers, MPGuino, throttle lock cruise control, and lean burn monitor I plan to hit the 70's with ease and maybe squeak into the 80's:turtle:

Sorry - searched this thread and thought I'd comment even though its so old.

I have owned my 98 HX and drive it to the job Mon-Fri, 21 miles of city traffic with a few good long 5th gear runs. I have had it for 2 1/2 years, missed a mpg tank or two on my spreadsheet, but in over 25,400 mile charted, I have averaged 41.3x mpg. It had 177,000 miles on it and I am the third owner. Going to tune it soon - not sure when it was last done. Happy eco motoring all -

(Hope this helps someone else "searching" for this topic later...)

I finally snagged a manual '99 HX earlier this spring after months and months of watching Craigslist. Only regret is the lack of cruise control and one slightly wavy quarter panel. I paid $2700. Maybe a bit too much, still it was worth the wait.

It was tough to find a manual that wasn't borked. I would have preferred a 2001+, but I'm happy to have Slambo under the shade tree.

We've been going through it piece-by-piece, slaying dragons and bolting in the good stuff. It rolled into the driveway with a bunch of eBay's finest parts. The fart can was replaced immediately. Did the EGR port clean yesterday and swapped the stock airbox back in, replacing the shiny eBay tube. Fingers crossed, we might be close to the MPG spec. It never felt like it was going into lean burn.

'99 and up can accommodate a double-din head unit.

We popped in a (relatively) inexpensive JVC flat screen with AppLink ... add a $20 OBD WiFi dongle and DashCommand is *on* the dash, at last ... :)

Sounds like a nice build. You should start a thread for the work you've done, and will be doing.

Thanks, Daox!

My goal - after achieving a (hopefully) easy 50 MPG - is to produce an entertaining half hour series pilot with Slambo ... and if the car isn't too rough, take it to the SEMA show in November. I'm thinking of this one as a test mule, rather than a show pony, so it won't be getting a $5K paint job. (ha!)

I've posted an intro video and a overview review of the JVC unit (still figuring it out) in my YouTube channel so far. I didn't want to appear to be too promotional by pushing the stuff here on EcoModder. Let me know what's okay and I'll stay between the lines. :)

I have a slew of crazy ideas and have collected a bunch of different materials for aero experiments. Needed to get the MPGs back to spec before pushing forward.

3M VHB Tape is the coolest ...

Are newer 7th gen Civic HX ('00-'02)models as efficient as the older ones? The 2002 for example, looks quite a bit different than the older gen, and I'm wondering if it's as good, or better? I see mostly 1996-1999 models for sale.. so when I see a newer HX from 2000-2005, I'm not sure what to think.

That's a good question...

To add to this extremely old thread, in the 1 day of my driving my HX, I have averaged 10% better then my Corolla, and I didn't even try very hard. There was really bad traffic going to work so I had to take an alternative route which consisted of much, much more stopping and going (stop lights so dead stop back up to cruising speed) uphill starts, lots of idling and I still managed 40mpg on UG (was 40.1 when I got to work) and I'm sure it was actually more because I was in L/B for a little while too. Under similar conditions, I probably would have gotten about 32-34mpg out of my Corolla.

I figured the age didn't matter, but I didn't realize it started in 2008! I just looked at the last post date, lol.

I'm hoping we'll get more feedback on HX results.

Agree with Daox... sure would like to see a build thread MPGomatic. On the OP's question, there are significant differences between the 1996-00 HX and the 2001-2005 HX: mostly in gearing (earlier had the better taller gears) and engne size (later had the bigger 1.7 engine).

Depending on what you want the newest and highest EPA rated Honda you might get would be the 2006 Insight, which was still the first generation little awesome 2 seater. I'm not totally sold on hybrids, but there are lots of amazing insight projects on this site to use for reference.

Thanks for the tips, do you know much about durability/design quality? I've read and honestly it appears that the older model has more build quality, and I especially like the lack of angles and flat body panels on the older 6th gen. The 7th gen kinda looks ugly in comparison, to me.

Not to hijack a hijacked, resurrected thread, but is a 2002 Insight worth looking into? I think they look like butt and I would prefer an HX but since this popped up FOUR HOURS ago locally and you mentioned the insight...can it be modded to efficient status without hybrid tech? I don't much find hybrid technology appealing because of the recycling and replacement costs.

http://images.craigslist.org/00r0r_5...9k_600x450.jpg

depending on mileage, that Insight looks like a great deal. insights are pretty much the same from 2000 to 2006. in fact, 2005, and 2006 cant do the "calpod" mod (enables you to run the car w/o the battery, just on motor); which is a big disadvantage. i have a 2006 Insight and I had to install MIMA to get full control of the battery.

the later model HX's are not quite as efficient as the earlier ones; hence why i bought a 2000 HX instead of a newer one. tho is VERY hard to find an HX out there with less than 150k miles.

the Insight is a great fuel eco car. much better than the HX, but the HX is also semi 'fast', you can have SOME fun in an HX........ not with the Insight tho, its simply WAY (and i mean WAY) too slow to do anything but hypermile

Well, since you are in Cali, modding the Insight to run without the battery would probably be an instant emissions fail. You could swap a newer engine lawfully, but now you're into relatively high difficulty and expense compared to buying a clean used 2000 Civic HX or something.

Most Insight batteries can be resurrected with a grid charge, you'll get a few more years out of them, and a basic grid charger can be built for about $25. As for engines... if the engine is blown, you can get a replacement for <$100, there are literally warehouses full of Insight engines that nobody wants because they simply don't fail. The car is usually wrecked before the engine goes out.

The mileage will be the same or possibly slightly better with the hybrid systems disabled (just slower), but even a 90% dead battery will still provide auto-stop and idle-smoothing.

It's very difficult to get less than 50MPG out of one. You can drive like an asshat and still get 50. I got 84 on my last extended trip.

EDIT: I wouldn't recommend buying something you wouldn't want to drive though. Get a car you like.

Good to know! I think I will take your advice and get a car I like more, the civic. I don't love them but they look ok, and I don't remember hating the drive last time I was in one. :)

The Insight is barely slower to 60mph than the HX, but is infinitely more tossable. 2nd gear is good though something like 60mph, and the three banger pulls sweetest around 4-4.5krpm. Of all the cars I've owned, I had the MOST fun in my Insight, and at wrecking time I'd put 40k on it averaging 69.2 mpg (even with having some occasional fun). That's tank records, not display calculated.

Only another week or so before I get to go pick up the basket case I'm getting for free :). I've been Insightless for 2 years now and it's been killing me. Currently driving an 04 Civic and it feels like a big fat turtle in comparison.

interesting, probably because of the weight I suppose.

Anyway I'm going to ask we get back on topic, I seemed to have helped this thread turn into an insight thread.


Anyone have experience with both generations of civic HX??

:D:D

When I told my mom about getting a 96-2000 civic hx, she was telling me I should go for something newer, but I'm not sure that's a good idea or not. :o Personally I like the 2000 era best, especially the facelifted version of that generation.

I haven't driven either though, I've only driven a 2-door civic from the previous generation (pre 1996) but I assume it's similar

Re: your Mom's concern about the age of a 1996-00 HX... how mechanical are you? There will be work to do in rehabing the car to full capacity, unless you pay a premium for the rarer low miles, unmolested, and well-maintained vehicles. If you want to address her questions about getting something newer and still have a Civic, consider the 2003-2005 Civic Hybrid. Or even the 8th generation Civic Hybrid, which I thought was a great looking car, with nice smooth wheel covers and a great 49/51 set of EPA ratings, which good hypermiling would crush. Get an '07.

The truth about the HX and DX Civics is that by 180,000 miles, even when treated nicely they start to have components fail, even though the main hardware is still great and just a little competent wrenching will keep it on the road as a reliable go-box.

I'd say it's probably the torque. Electric motors are torque monsters!

Fat turtle, larger and much heavier than the mid '90s and earlier Hondas. Hondas got obese compared to what they were.

Something about a hybrid doesn't really play nice with what I "want." I know engines and components enough to do most work myself, except I'd likely pay someone to rebuild the engine if it came to that. I don't know a ton about hybrid electronics, and I am a little frightened by the light weight chassis being crushed by a local yokel running a light...or suffering worse damage in any accident than an already lightweight civic which has 500lb more mass. :confused:

Also, I would like four seats. I wish I could have four doors but...on well. I also would like a trunk to 'hide' stuff in, at least keep things from being visible if I need to go into a store.
Are HX rear seats usable for someone around 6' tall without breaking your neck on the roof?

I would be confident doing CVs/boots, brakes, wheel bearings, shocks, and the clutch, among other things.
I intend to find a car that's clean and average priced and with a good engine/trans/clutch.
Tips on good prices to pay are greatly appreciated!

Also, I would not feel too confident about the repair costs of an insight, including recycling and replacing the ni-mh battery. I'd want to do it myself probably, so I figure about $1k for that if I can learn how to not kill myself installing it on my own; then I still have other non-hybrid components to worry about (engine, tranny, shocks, brakes, etc...).
Perhaps it's doable but it's still not quite what I want. I'm taking a hurdle going from a supra to a civic already...something I thought I'd "NEVER DO," so bare with me when I say I've always thought insights were silly looking.

For me, it's a situation of not understanding and thus doubting the feasibility/economics of a hybrid, too. I know people, including myself, rip on the Prius for being more harm on the environment than gas guzzlers...
I don't know the specs or have data to tell me for sure, and I think the prius uses li-ion and not ni-mh, but it's overall environment effects still concern me.
I also wonder if insight owners get hassled by eco-haters? I imagine those people are out there. The civic just looks like any other car so I wouldn't anticipate that, and it's not quite so small... I do admit they can be modded to look good but that means money.

I don't mind some sensors going bad or having to do basic tune-up or running gear maintenance, I just feel like 40-50mpg would be awesome and worth it for a while until I don't care as much about saving every penny. I can't figure a better car to find in my price range to save money this side of a geo metro that isn't too small, ugly as sin, a gas guzzler, or something crappy that will break in 20k miles or disintegrate. Numerous domestics or a corolla come to mind but none fit the bill like the HX (that's why I'm bent on finding one).

I have friends with auto shops and extensive Honda knowledge, so I could probably do fine if it needs some work done, possibly even trade photo work for their businesses in exchange for labor.

Right now I'm developing my business and I need reliable, economical transportation for myself and my photography gear plus the occasional passenger(s), and it needs to look clean to maintain my image. (business image - just a clean car showing that I'm not a slob).

If I could get a decent insight for similar money ($2500-4000) that will stay within that range after immediate maintenance, and if I knew they were safe in wrecks, I'd consider one. I don't want to die though and you can't beat physics...which the HX gives me an edge on I think. I'll be concerned enough coming from my 3400lb supra to a 2300lb Honda eco-coupe. :rolleyes:

Yeah, a f'ing prius backed into my friend and I when we were driving by, hurting my neck and crunching his civic. I'm plenty familiar with their 'capabilities'....

Then you are back to an HX. Pay a bit more and get a really clean-looking one for your image concerns, as well as one with lower miles. For about $5,000 you could find one of those from about 2000 or 2001 with 100,000-150,000 miles on it. It would look clean and have tens of thousands of miles of reliable relatively trouble free driving left in it.

I know what you mean. Despite the Prius overcoming most of my paper hangups about hybrids, I still just don't want one (never mind that it doesn't have three rows of seats required by our next vehicle). Partly this is styling and partly the cheap feeling interior for the price. I still feel, though, that deep down it goes beyond that for me. A TCH or FFH, which largely fly under the radar, appeal to me much more than a Prius, which is conspicuously hybrid, yet still not enough for me to really actually want one. Much like you.


:-o

I'm way to lazy to sit here and read all these posts, so I'll just respond to what I got from reading the couple of posts.

Buy a HX, 96-00, 97-98 seems to be the most popular year that doesn't get molested, no idea why. I bought mine for 2k, and have only put about 300$ into it and it's in good running condition now. I was terrified to change the dizzy o'ring and vtech solenoid gasket myself but, I did it and I'm really happy I did. If you can find one in perfect condition for around 3.5k it would be worth it. Even in bad condition (as long as it doesn't have a blown head gasket or something) you can just youtube the basic repairs and do most, if not all of them yourself.

[Edit]: Something like this would be perfect for you: http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4543504900.html

Yeah I wish so many eco cars weren't fugly. That's another reason I feel like the HX is PERFECT, because tasteful mods can make them look pretty good, and that's not to say it's not good looking as-is. I like the stock enkei rims, too. The TCH and FFH don't look bad, you're right. If I had that budget though I wouldn't give a crap about fuel expense, I'd be in a mkIV supra, or something else comfortable, powerful, clean, and fun.

Oh and yeah, I hate priuses more because of that accident. I already didn't like them but now they make me cringe (or scream if they're in the way). I had to fight over a year, eventually winning a lawsuit, because a careless woman backed into the street and smaked our car, tweaking my neck; and they (the insurance of the car owner, not the driver) didn't want to cover basic treatment. Don't support Farmers, they can burn in hell. Also, don't stand near hybrids or drive by without observing their occupancy, they're silent killers. :p

Thanks for the tips! and the price info, it's hard to believe these cars are so inexpensive, but they are old and after all just a civic. Still though, I'm happy not to need a $6k budget.

I have a guy responding to my HX want ad, but sadly his has 250k miles on it, it's been lowered, and he didn't seem to know if it had any basic things done, like timing belt, clutch...etc. I was shocked but he said since 2007 and the last 100k or so...it hasn't needed major work.
I will look at it tomorrow but I'm also going to tell him his $3k asking price is way high for that mileage without major parts being replaced
Perhaps I could offer $500-$1000 for it? I have yet to see it, but at least I'll get to see a HX for a few minutes, which is my main incentive at this point.

He said he'd probably take an offer if I made one but I dunno what he exects and then I'd have to go about getting the...

cosmetic issues worked out (crack in bumper...etc)
correct enkei rims in good shape found, and new tires to fit
new clutch
possible engine rebuild (i mean it's 250k miles...holy crap)
wheel bearings
new sensors
new front seat (minor tears so I'd want something fresh eventually)
full tuneup including timing belt, dizzy/rotor, plugs, wires, EGR cleaning
tranny rebuild??

I don't want to do a rebuild myself, the rest I'm game. It's just a bummer when I wanted to just get a $3000-$3500 nice car and be done with it. I will pass I think but I'm still going to look at it. Who knows maybe he'll take $500? lol.

3k is way to much. I would offer 1,500,as that would be reasonable. I doubt it needs a motor rebuild, Honda engines last forever. As for the rest, I would immediately change timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, spark plug wires, dizzy O'ring, v-tech solenoid gasket, oil, tranny oil, brakes, and clean the engine compartment. It's a big gamble buying it from someone who knows nothing about cars, I got lucky with this civic it wasn't something major leaking oil, or I could have been in big trouble.

Car Gurus lists a 1999 HX sold by a dealer in RI and seemingly stock with 207,000 miles at nearly $3000. But cargurus calls that price $500 too high. So they seem to think 2500 would be a "fair price" for one with 43K fewer miles than the one you're looking at, and theirs already has the stock wheels. Just more evidence for the "that price is too high" claim.

Haha yeah I was already pretty convinced 3k was way too much. I was seeing about on par with what "car gurus" says, after looking at about 30 ads over the last few months. :D

Pay for and run a carfax! It's the best recommendation I can give anyone. I know they seem expensive, but they save you a headache and much more money down the road. Plus you can tell when an owner is lying to you once you have the history of the car.

When I went on the hunt for a VX, I spent almost $200 for carfaxes, I bought 5 at a time, and ran every car I had interest in. I now own a minty VX!! Well worth every dime I paid carfax.


My $.02 anyway. Good luck!





ZO.

Thanks! I will probably do that, and whatever other auto registry there is (autocheck and someother one). I always forget that.

I can however say with certainty that carfax will not reveal all, but it does help. My car has a clean title and I know for a fact it's been a horrible accident, so lesson learned there would be to check under carpets when allowed, and look for asymmetrical steel. Mine has folds under the rear seat but the chassis looked ok on a lift. go figure.
It was my first car and will be retired to a racecar/track car in the future.

You know unlimited carfaxes is only 50$ a month right?

They did away with that long ago.

FWIW Carfax can be easily fooled and the good scammers know this. The reports are virtually worthless imo.

I owned a used car lot for years.

DITTO!

You can easily have a car repaired without reporting it, and my current vehicle has evidence it's been in a MAJOR accident. There are literally straightened FOLDS under the rear seats from when the sheet metal was crunched, then straightened. There's also broken and shoddily repaired rear subframe damage. Clean california title, and no california smog equipment either (no second cat).

All-in-all I consider vehicle checks as a good record of lien sales, # of owners, and a location history for the car. It's like a supplement to what the owner tells you, trained eyes, carpet pulling, and a mechanic are the best bet.

I'm not sure how to ask an owner about pulling up carpet though, lol.


SOO I have a line on a 2000 HX with a 5spd and ~130k miles! He was asking $3500 but i'm going to offer $2700, and probably stop at $3000 because it does not have A/C, and the timing belt and water pump have never been changed.

Never changed?! Wow!

Well, I sure hope that mine was changed at sixty and a hundred and twenty thousand miles, but it made it to 180k, when I had it changed.

AC can be useful. My HX is black and I live in Arizona.

I've talked to several owners who took theirs to 160k or so, or perhaps never knew of a timing belt change.

I'll be using it to talk him down probably. we'll see.