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Old 02-27-2019, 12:45 PM   #5171 (permalink)
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pricing

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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Electrical pricing by region August 2017.
.

.
.
https://stopthesethings.com/2017/08/...owered-france/
.
What's your point?

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Old 02-27-2019, 12:49 PM   #5172 (permalink)
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wealth to poverty

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I power factor corrected all my air compressors and welders.
Oh man they are getting screwed royally.
I pay 7 cents a kwh for the base rate and my entire bill divided by total consumption is usually between 9 and 10 cents.

A lot of these places trying to save the world are creating energy poverty with cheap dirty power, like germany.
Looks like France has the right idea. Let's all be more like France in this one instance.
I would argue that they're going from rags to riches,where we're going from riches to rags.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:53 PM   #5173 (permalink)
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price

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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Can you show us a chart of world electricity price that you like better?
The greater questions is,can you show us a chart of world electricity 'cost'?
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:07 PM   #5174 (permalink)
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wind and solar

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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Hmmm if I didn't know any better I would say it looks like you electricity is more expensive where you have more wind and solar.
Which goes against everything the green washin believers have been saying all along.
It's far cheaper in 'cost.'
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:13 PM   #5175 (permalink)
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paleoclimate

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Today on Slashdot: Extreme CO2 Levels Could Trigger Clouds 'Tipping Point' and 8C of Global Warming (carbonbrief.org)
https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/0...global-warming
We need to be very careful when we look waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in time.
The Earth has changed over time.It's physically different than a really long time ago.
Certain oceans were not connected.Ocean circulation wasn't the same.Land masses were physically different.
We don't want to compare apples to oranges.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:16 PM   #5176 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpoint5
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler
Navigating energy descent will likely require that we take the best of liberal world views like openness to ideas, enthusiasm for change, and tolerance of differences...
I'd say those views and behaviors are important to adopt at all times.
Liberalism - Wikipedia
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles*, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, and free markets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
____________

Liberalist - definition of liberalist by The Free Dictionary
a. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.
[Search domain www.thefreedictionary.com/liberalist] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/liberalist
____________

*Antifa
United States
The Antifa movement is a conglomeration of autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant groups in the United States. The principal feature of antifa groups is their opposition to fascism through the use of direct action, harassing right wing extremists both online and in real life.
More at Wikipedia


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4
Yep, all these scientific ideas slowly build to a peak then come crashing down.
BS.
Your dark matter was never a fact. It was the UFO of the universe, the Unidentified Mass.
Much like the celestial epicycles.

Quote:
Deferent and epicycle - Wikipedia
Deferents and epicycles in the ancient models did not represent orbits in the modern sense. Claudius Ptolemy refined the deferent-and-epicycle concept and introduced the equant as a mechanism for accounting for velocity variations in the motions of the planets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:18 PM   #5177 (permalink)
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The costs of renewable energy are front-loaded. The energy gathering systems have to be be built, and then they supply energy, with some maintenance costs.

The costs of fossil fuels and other non-renewable energy are back-loaded. The cost of fuel alone, over time makes these more and more expensive over time. They also have significant maintenance costs, and costs associated with pollution and waste materials. These energy sources use a lot of water.

Fossil fuels shift carbon fuels from underground where they accumulated for millions of years, and dump them into the atmosphere. Over HALF of all the fossil fuels EVER CONSUMED happened in about the last 30 years.

The known results of these chemical changes to the atmosphere - are undeniable. Chemistry follows the the laws of nature. If you continuously added more insulation to your house, you would have to expect that it would get warmer and warmer inside, all else being equal.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:19 PM   #5178 (permalink)
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possibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor95 View Post
Interesting article:
https://newatlas.com/carbon-capture-...to-coal/58637/
Supposedly turning atmospheric CO2 into coal is in the realm of possibility. One article I read said that it could be put back into the ground, however it could also be burned for energy, along with the byproducts produced from it.

A different article I read earlier today said something different from this article; that researchers actually made coal flakes from CO2 at room temperature.
What would the energy requirement be,per unit of energy,to take a diffuse feedstock,and convert to to a condensed,compact fuel?
It seems to defy (energy and economics wise) the second law of thermodynamics.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:22 PM   #5179 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Hmmm if I didn't know any better I would say it looks like you electricity is more expensive where you have more wind and solar.
Which goes against everything the green washin believers have been saying all along.
As you do know better you don't say that. Thanks.

High electricity pricing is driving people towards installing solar panels and wind mills (as that works in their favor).
The existence of wind mills and solar does not drive up electricity costs (there's no causation).

Of course do countries who have to import fuel have higher costs for electricity than the countries that produce those fuels, and of course do they try to reduce import by producing their own renewable energy.
It's not the fault of renewable energy. If anything, it is the solution; costs would be worse without.
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Last edited by RedDevil; 02-27-2019 at 01:33 PM..
 
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:33 PM   #5180 (permalink)
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education

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Jason Bradford linked his manifesto on Resilience.org.
.
Food, its scarcity, the desire and opportunity to grow it, and the need to do it in ways that are appropriate to place and circumstance, will drive demographic shifts this century. People with life experiences and training suited for the urban environment are going to need a rapid education on what it takes to live off the land, and so-called conventional farmers and ranchers will have a steep learning curve to adopt more frugal and sustainable methods. But farmers and ranchers are not the only ones who need help adjusting to 21st century pressures. A society that actively supports them is also crucial to their success.
Some worry that in losing access to cheap energy the worst aspects of the past, such as xenophobic tribalism, will resurface. Navigating energy descent will likely require that we take the best of liberal world views like openness to ideas, enthusiasm for change, and tolerance of differences...
.
With a list of references and further reading at the bottom
.
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2...nergy-descent/
.
Read the whole manifesto for download here here.
.
https://www.postcarbon.org/publicati...ture-is-rural/
.
Perhaps the first lesson would be to disabuse people of the notion that fossil fuels were ever cheap.
The evidence clearly suggests that they are the most expensive fuels ever conceived.
We're entering an energy ascent.
Business colleges are going to have to correct for the collective,generational dyslexia/logic inversions.

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