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Old 02-07-2018, 05:57 AM   #931 (permalink)
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That's even worse.
Most of the individual years fall well with in the standard deviation.
I have a feeling the "control years" would look a lot different if the unusually colder early 80s and mount pinatubo years were excluded.

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Old 02-07-2018, 11:05 AM   #932 (permalink)
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Since this thread is the graph repository...

Recent slight upward trend in concern about GW


China and Austraila don't care. Who knew Canadians care less than Americans? Maybe cold climates welcome the warmth.


Climate change about as serious a problem as packaging waste
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:33 PM   #933 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
With the artic sea ice one they use 1981-2010 as the "base line" compare the base line to 2011 and 2012 then 2016 and 2017, while leaving out 2013, 2014 and 2015.
Then same thing with the antarctic except they leave out 2011 through 2015.
Thats called Cherry picking.

Given the limited available data all years should be included in the base line, even the ones that don't support the predetermined outcome.
That data is all there - look at the interactive graph:

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/sea-ice-tools/

No cherry picking is going on.

The long term trend is down - rapidly.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:39 PM   #934 (permalink)
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Since y'all are so good at parsing sea ice, what do you think of this:



I'm not sure what he's saying. The most I get is that solar forcing models count photons but not energized particles (which vary by 10-100x), and increasing cosmic radiation increases cloud cover and therefore reflectance.

...something about a gyre of fresh water trapped in the Arctic?
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:22 PM   #935 (permalink)
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Quote:
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cosmic radiation increases cloud cover and therefore reflectance.
Has it been shown that cloud cover is a net cooler of Earth? Reflecting sunlight certainly rejects heat that would otherwise be absorbed, but clouds are a greenhouse gas themselves, trapping in the heat that does get absorbed. In other words, does the amount of rejected energy outweigh the amount of trapped energy?
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:45 PM   #936 (permalink)
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Looks like we are going to need all the global warming we can get.
Hopefully the sea ice is melting, I just don't believe it's down ward trending as rapidly as some people would like to think, due to the tiny cherry picked sample sizes used.

If I really thought "snowy winters will soon be a thing of the past" I wouldn't be trying to secure a source of coal.
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Last edited by oil pan 4; 02-07-2018 at 09:12 PM..
 
Old 02-07-2018, 09:19 PM   #937 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
That's even worse.
Most of the individual years fall well with in the standard deviation.
I have a feeling the "control years" would look a lot different if the unusually colder early 80s and mount pinatubo years were excluded.
Uh... the 80's were hotter than the 70's on average.

Pinatubo. likewise, only cooled the Earth for a few years. The 90's were hotter than the 80's, on average, which were hotter than the 70's, on average... which... let's be honest, the 70's were slightly cooler than the 60's, I think, but the 90's onward are all hotter than the decades before them.... and hotter than anything we've experienced during recorded history.

Want hotter, you have to go back to 120,000 years ago, when temperatures were 4 degrees higher and ice melt gave us sea levels several meters higher than today.
 
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:26 PM   #938 (permalink)
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I don't think global warming is as big of an issue as is feared. Humans adapt, we wouldn't be where we are today if the past ice ages hadn't ended. Eventually we will enter another ice age, so what.

We should work toward less Co2 emissions because it is a sustainable model, not because we should hate fossil fuels. They are necessary, we just need to use them more efficiently.

My 2 cents.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:45 PM   #939 (permalink)
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Th 70s were cool enough to make all the climate scientists think that the next ice age has started. Saying the 1970s were a little cooler than normal is an understatement.
In 1982 in Maine 6 to 8 inches of snow fell June 30. Yeah it was probably a warm year.
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:48 AM   #940 (permalink)
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What's different this time is when the miles-high ice walls advance South, they will be topped with solar-melt-water lakes filled with barges with casinos and vertical farms.

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