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88CRX 06-16-2008 02:51 PM

Compressed Air Car
 
A friend forwarded me an email:

Link is here:zev car

The car won't be able to meet US Safety Regulations, but it's interesting:


AMAZING AIR CAR FROM INDIA
This is the same company which a few months back-invented a car that costs only $2500 new. BUT it's not available in the USA. Why is it that a gasless vehicle that eliminates the reason to buy oil from foreign countries hasn't even been noticed by US manufacturers? How bad can this be for anybody, anywhere in the world -- except, perhaps, for the oil tycoons?

The Compressed Air Car, developed by Motor Development International (MDI) Founder Guy Negre, might be the best thing to happen to the motor engine, and people all over the world.
The $12,700 CityCAT, one of the planned Air Car models, reaches 68 mph, goes for a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor units. MDI says it should cost only around $2 to fill the car up with 340 liters of air!

The Air Car will be starting production soon, thanks to India's TATA Motors.

88CRX 06-16-2008 02:54 PM

Thinking about it, it's a good idea. If you can get the range.

no combustion, so less energy loss via heat.

I guess it'll sound alot like an air impact wrench, or other compressed air tool.

What's interesting, the concern is freezing, because of the expansion of the compressed air.

Bigs 06-16-2008 03:02 PM

The design has been there for a bit! I think some Buses are running on this principle somewhere in the world! The MYT Engine can work on both air and fuel... Interesting for sure!

http://www.angellabsllc.com/

88CRX 06-16-2008 03:09 PM

Imagine an accident in one of those that ruptures a fully charge Tank!!!

meemooer 06-16-2008 11:29 PM

I really want the MYT engine. The design is mind boggling and it is so capable

ebacherville 06-16-2008 11:36 PM

if they made a 3 wheel version they could sell them as motorcycles in the USA.. Hell id pay the same price or more for a 3 wheel version.. if it came with a air compressor for at home to fill up with .. hell id pay 3500 for one witha home compressor or on board compressor for charging it up..

However .. wouldn't this be considered non powered motor vehicles.. its not using a engine per say..its just kenitic energy..


Also as for the air tank rupturing , i read up on these the air tanks are carbon fiber and if they rupture they cant explode , just crack open and release the air.. may be loud as heck but not explosive..

88CRX 06-17-2008 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebacherville (Post 35443)
if they made a 3 wheel version they could sell them as motorcycles in the USA.. Hell id pay the same price or more for a 3 wheel version.. if it came with a air compressor for at home to fill up with .. hell id pay 3500 for one witha home compressor or on board compressor for charging it up..

However .. wouldn't this be considered non powered motor vehicles.. its not using a engine per say..its just kenitic energy..


Also as for the air tank rupturing , i read up on these the air tanks are carbon fiber and if they rupture they cant explode , just crack open and release the air.. may be loud as heck but not explosive..

According to the website, under products>comparison:
-it has an on board compressor that is plugged in an electric socket, which will take 4 hours to fill an empty tank. It's kinda like a battery that won't wear out. Maybe the gaskets...
-there is also the option of filling up in a filling station which would take 3 minutes

elepski 06-17-2008 07:22 AM

Hello all...

I have included a few clip from you tube about the MDI Aircar... maybe this will help dispel some of the myths i saw mentioned here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDqcu8oJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4

88CRX 06-17-2008 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elepski (Post 35509)
Hello all...

I have included a few clip from you tube about the MDI Aircar... maybe this will help dispel some of the myths i saw mentioned here

The first video got silly in the end by saying it's a perpetual car, if an on board generator is put on to charge it self. If anything it started it's own myth. Perpetual motion!!!

I sure the car is Legit, but the video producer didn't know what he was talking about.

It's not free. I the same webpage i mentioned, annual cost is expected to be $220. That will pretty much from the power used to compress the air.

boxchain 06-17-2008 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88CRX (Post 35292)
What's interesting, the concern is freezing, because of the expansion of the compressed air.

Air conditioning! :D

88CRX 06-17-2008 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elepski (Post 35509)
Hello all...

I have included a few clip from you tube about the MDI Aircar... maybe this will help dispel some of the myths i saw mentioned here

Thanks for the videos. i liked the second on with the Australian designed engine. Pistons waste alot of energy...

elepski 06-17-2008 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88CRX (Post 35577)
The first video got silly in the end by saying it's a perpetual car, if an on board generator is put on to charge it self. If anything it started it's own myth. Perpetual motion!!!

I sure the car is Legit, but the video producer didn't know what he was talking about.

It's not free. I the same webpage i mentioned, annual cost is expected to be $220. That will pretty much from the power used to compress the air.

I agree with you there on the perpetual motion junk they mentioned...that is just hype...

However, that van is PRIME for a nice high watt solar array on the roof... one that could help to recharge the system on sunny days while it sits in a parking lot... depending on the system and exposure time.. it could recharge most of not all of the air consumed while it sits... This would not be perpetual motion.. but it could help with the time between top offs of air. And yes the air IS free.. the Method of Compressing it is not. but the annual cost of running a compressor is much lower than the cost of adding petrol... so free?... no.. better?... by far yes....

88CRX 06-17-2008 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elepski (Post 35590)
I agree with you there on the perpetual motion junk they mentioned...that is just hype...

However, that van is PRIME for a nice high watt solar array on the roof... one that could help to recharge the system on sunny days while it sits in a parking lot... depending on the system and exposure time.. it could recharge most of not all of the air consumed while it sits... This would not be perpetual motion.. but it could help with the time between top offs of air. And yes the air IS free.. the Method of Compressing it is not. but the annual cost of running a compressor is much lower than the cost of adding petrol... so free?... no.. better?... by far yes....

Yeah it is much better. i imagine it does not idle when your not pushing the pedal it's off.

It would be great if they can modify in a way that will allow it to compresses air when you brake.

ihatejoefitz 06-17-2008 11:56 AM

This is very cool.

elepski 06-17-2008 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88CRX (Post 35591)
Yeah it is much better. i imagine it does not idle when your not pushing the pedal it's off.

It would be great if they can modify in a way that will allow it to compresses air when you brake.

Yes.. that was one of the key things of that system... there is no idle.. as it dose not need to... gas engines need to idle to sustain the reaction.. or have a electric starter motor to start the reaction... in the air motor.. one or more pistons are always on a power stroke.. you would just need to open the valve and apply the air pressure to start it up again...

The system really has potential...

I am kinda working on my own concept... using some of the ideas I mentioned about power reclamation..

Bigs 06-17-2008 12:01 PM

You can even add your name to a list for info when they become available! :)

The guys here at work are freaking out now! lol

88CRX 06-17-2008 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigs (Post 35605)
You can even add your name to a list for info when they become available! :)

The guys here at work are freaking out now! lol


It a great idea huh...

I wonder if they will have conversions available. When my CRX's engine blows up, I'd like to put one in.

ebacherville 06-17-2008 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88CRX (Post 35628)
It a great idea huh...

I wonder if they will have conversions available. When my CRX's engine blows up, I'd like to put one in.

OH man what a great idea.. really the CRX is not to much heavier than these thing snad probably more areo efficient..

I want one of these things .. Just make it a 3 wheeler and they can sell them her eint he USA.. 3 wheeler 3 seats would suffice great here int he USA.. if they prove to be safe enough as a three wheeler we have a argument for allowing 4 wheelers to be legalized..

Id feel far safer in one of those than a motorcycle .. Plus out of the weather :)

MPaulHolmes 06-17-2008 05:30 PM

In L.A., if they compress the air from the atmosphere, then when it's released in the car's exhaust, it won't meet air quality standards. hehe

Duffman 06-18-2008 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigs (Post 35296)
The design has been there for a bit! I think some Buses are running on this principle somewhere in the world! The MYT Engine can work on both air and fuel... Interesting for sure!

http://www.angellabsllc.com/

I looked into the MYT engine about a year ago and my conclusion was that the inventor is a wonk with no scientific/engineering understanding or it is a scam to collect $$$ from investors based on wild claims.

88CRX 06-18-2008 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebacherville (Post 35635)
OH man what a great idea.. really the CRX is not to much heavier than these thing snad probably more areo efficient..

I want one of these things .. Just make it a 3 wheeler and they can sell them her eint he USA.. 3 wheeler 3 seats would suffice great here int he USA.. if they prove to be safe enough as a three wheeler we have a argument for allowing 4 wheelers to be legalized..

Id feel far safer in one of those than a motorcycle .. Plus out of the weather :)

Great Point it's probably safer then a motorcycle

88CRX 06-18-2008 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes (Post 35722)
In L.A., if they compress the air from the atmosphere, then when it's released in the car's exhaust, it won't meet air quality standards. hehe

HAH!!! that probaly true also

nmgolfer 09-24-2010 02:22 AM

Only problem I see with it is...

compressed air tanks are big bombs! They'd have to be subjected to the same sorts of design / test / build standards nuclear waste WIPP transport containers are... Wonder how many bars they put in and how big. Major safety issue IMOP

Daox 09-24-2010 07:41 AM

And a tank full of gas is a big fire hazard! :) Any form of stored energy can be extremely dangerous. This is nothing new. Those tanks can take quite the impact before anything bad happens to them. The weak point is the valve/head. I'm sure it wouldn't take much to create a solid protective cage around it. They do the same for EV batteries, gas tanks, the civic GX's natural gas tank...

sawickm 09-24-2010 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmgolfer (Post 195704)
Only problem I see with it is compressed air tanks are big bombs! Wonder how many bars they put in and how big.

Automotive high pressure Hydrogen tanks, and Low pressure Propane tanks already exist that are DOT approved. ??? But it would still depend on the tank pressure needed for the air. ???

nmgolfer 09-24-2010 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sawickm (Post 195726)
Automotive high pressure Hydrogen tanks, and Low pressure Propane tanks already exist that are DOT approved. ??? But it would still depend on the tank pressure needed for the air. ???

The way to store hydrogen for use in vehicles is in metal hydrides:

United Nuclear - Hydrogen Fuel Systems

totally safe...

No... compressed air scares the heck out of me... I much rather sit on liquid fuel tank... Empty gas tanks are far more dangerous than full ones but nothing like a compressed air tank... Have a look at welding tanks .... those are what the air tanks would have to look like... and then electric batteries start looking much better! No losses compressing the air either which would need to be factored in .... Air motors are efficient (gas turbines have amazing power to size / weight ) but I suspect electric motors are more efficient ... (longer time to recharge though)

sawickm 09-24-2010 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmgolfer (Post 195834)
No... compressed air scares the heck out of me...

A carbon fiber tank rated at 10,000psi is what I had in mind: Quantum Technologies - Products

Bicycle Bob 09-24-2010 10:19 PM

All other fuels have to mix with air before releasing most of their energy. Even LNG has a relatively trivial energy of compression. Compressed air, OTOH, has all of the energy available instantly, like dynamite. SCUBA tanks are regulated much more stringently than aircraft parts for this reason. If you take one in to be re-filled, and the shop sees a hint of damage, they drill a hole in it, so nobody can fill it.
If this wasn't a stock fraud, I'd worry about whole traffic jams and parking lots going up in a chain reaction.

NeilBlanchard 09-24-2010 10:33 PM

The whole concept of using compressed air as a storage medium is not very efficient. If my memory serves, the compressed air only stores about 40% of the (electrical?) energy you put into it. Pretty poor ratio...

And, the tank has to weight a big boatload? How far can a 60-80 gallon tank at 2500PSI take you? And talk about lack of infrastructure; it's almost as hard as hydrogen.

euromodder 09-25-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 195724)
The weak point is the valve/head. I'm sure it wouldn't take much to create a solid protective cage around it. They do the same for EV batteries, gas tanks, the civic GX's natural gas tank...

You can't create a cage that's solid enough to survive any collision - it'd weigh so much it's no longer viable.

On a compressed air tank, you could make (a) rather large weak area(s) where it'd tear open in an emergency.

euromodder 09-25-2010 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmgolfer (Post 195834)
The way to store hydrogen for use in vehicles is in metal hydrides

Ever seen a car ablaze with a laptop and a Lithium-battery in it ?
Gets funky when the fire brigade throws water on it !

Ryland 09-25-2010 01:52 PM

Where do you get the kind of air pressure to recharge your air powered car and where do you get the energy to run it?
Alot of compressed gas's that are sold are not pumped as much as they are frozen to compress them.
Also things like small propane tanks are one time use only because they are so light weight that you are not allowed to transport them, it's a DOT rule not a propane rule, that is why you can get home refill kits for filling them off larger heavy tanks but you will never find a store that will refill your small hand held tank.

Bicycle Bob 09-25-2010 05:20 PM

Safety relief valve, eh? An oxygen cylinder got dropped on delivery to my high school, and it wrecked 3 classrooms as a whirling rocket. Somebody was damn glad they had followed the rule about avoiding a school in use.

Cancerkazoo 09-25-2010 05:24 PM

I would imagine if the safety valve was big enough and the tanks were secure you could dump a lot of air at once in an accident and not create a rocket launch.

Bicycle Bob 09-25-2010 05:31 PM

An accident does not leave you enough microseconds to dissipate the energy as anything but an explosion. Sending a rocket straight up would probably be the safest option.

Patrick 09-25-2010 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob (Post 195971)
An accident does not leave you enough microseconds to dissipate the energy as anything but an explosion. Sending a rocket straight up would probably be the safest option.

What goes up must come down. ;)

Patrick 09-25-2010 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryland (Post 195936)
Where do you get the kind of air pressure to recharge your air powered car and where do you get the energy to run it?
Alot of compressed gas's that are sold are not pumped as much as they are frozen to compress them.
Also things like small propane tanks are one time use only because they are so light weight that you are not allowed to transport them, it's a DOT rule not a propane rule, that is why you can get home refill kits for filling them off larger heavy tanks but you will never find a store that will refill your small hand held tank.

Where I used to work we had a cascade air system for our 2250 psi tanks. It was 220V and took several hours to charge the whole cascade (a series of large tanks that could be used in succession to fill smaller tanks to a high pressure). The system cost about $10,000.

Propane tanks are very low pressure in comparison. You just need enough pressure on the propane for it to change state into a liquid (about 150 psi @ 90F).

nmgolfer 09-25-2010 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick (Post 196001)

Propane tanks are very low pressure in comparison. You just need enough pressure on the propane for it to change state into a liquid (about 150 psi @ 90F).

Yep... Propane gas (top of the tank) is always at the vapor pressure which is a function of temperature but pretty low even on hot days.

nmgolfer 09-25-2010 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 195931)
Ever seen a car ablaze with a laptop and a Lithium-battery in it ?
Gets funky when the fire brigade throws water on it !

Can't say I have but what's your point? What does chemically bonded hydrogen storage in metal hydrides have to do with lithium ion battery fires?

winkosmosis 09-27-2010 04:57 AM

The range of these things is useless. Don't fall for the hype... and especially the ridiculous perpetual motion bull**** I saw parroted on Discovery Channel.


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