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-   -   Could I use these instead of pizza pans? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/could-i-use-these-instead-pizza-pans-26001.html)

Xist 05-28-2013 03:00 PM

Could I use these instead of pizza pans?
 
American Metalcraft - 18915 15" Round Pizza Pan Separatorhttp://img2.foodservicewarehouse.com...t_18915_03.jpg

Somehow I do not like the look that is "all the rage" on here. I wonder if having straight edges would be good or bad. I imagine that they would not stick out as far as the edges, so I doubt that it would matter much.

These would cost $23.23 unless, of course, I actually wanted to mount them. I imagine that would cost extra.

MetroMPG 05-28-2013 03:31 PM

Sure, go for it.

Frank Lee 05-28-2013 04:05 PM

Check to see if a flat plate will fit your wheels before ordering.

MetroMPG 05-28-2013 04:08 PM

So practical, that Frank.

Buy it now, buy it now!

Xist 05-28-2013 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 373480)
Sure, go for it.

This is my current setup:http://www.mycarworx.com/artwork/For_whHb_BandA.jpg

Some day I need to actually take pictures of my own car instead of finding ones on the Internet.

There are many pizza pan installations on here that I imagine that I could copy. How many of you think that I should tap the lugnuts?

I do not have many tools, a socket and wrench set, some screwdrivers, and now a circular saw, which I could not imagine using for this project. The Wiki says there has been an average of 3.56% improvement, although I believe that we have had far more than five members make this modification.

Come on, people! Post your numbers! :)

While my Ultragauge showed 31.5 for http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ock-25986.html, I usually get around twenty-seven. I actually went 450 miles on my last tank (14.778 gallons, 30.4 MPG), but that included 165 miles downhill from my parents' house, where I once got 40.4 MPG.

103.56% of 27 is 27.96.

Xist 05-29-2013 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 373488)
Check to see if a flat plate will fit your wheels before ordering.

Weird. I swear that "Latest Unread" keeps skipping ahead, but I think that I had already ordered them by the time that you posted this, and then I realized that I might have been able to find something similar at a restaurant supply store that I know, but hopefully I will have a better idea of how to mount them before they arrive.

I was looking at Car MPG Efficiency Modifications Main - EcoModder and it says:

Belly pan / under tray 3.48%
3 user average

Front air dam 4.73%
3 user average

Three users is a very small sample size, but I expected a belly pan to be better than an air dam!

Xist 05-29-2013 03:57 PM

The lug nuts that I see on-line are around $2.50 each. I see four-packs for $9.50 and ten-packs for $50, which seems like bad math. I found twenty-packs, but they were locking lugnuts, which seems irrelevant and possibly problematic for this application.

Can I replace my lugnuts for less than fifty dollars? I do not want anything special if the first thing that I will do is punch a hole in them!

MetroMPG 05-29-2013 04:20 PM

Can you go to a wrecking yard? If so, then you can get them for a fraction of $50.

MetroMPG 05-29-2013 04:23 PM

I hope the discs do fit your wheels.

If the face of the wheel is higher at any point than the outer/bead, these completely flat discs aren't going to work very well. (Assumed you would have checked that before ordering!)

Xist 05-29-2013 04:50 PM

No, I did not think of checking, but to rephrase what I put in my first post, how bad would it be if the edges do not touch the wheel as long as they are shallower than the sidewall?

I will check the junkyards. I thought of them, but the one that I went to for the power steering hose that I was never able to pull, none of the cars had wheels, but hopefully they kept at least a small fraction of the lugnuts from the hundreds or thousands of cars that they have.

freebeard 05-29-2013 10:55 PM

You don't see real Moon disks Mickey-Moused onto the lug nuts. Drill the lip of the rim for sheet metal screws. There's ~1/2" of rubber behind the rim before you'd nick the cable in the tire's bead. Off-roaders call it a bead-lock.

It's swap meet season, why not real Moons?

Xist 05-29-2013 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 373770)
You don't see real Moon disks Mickey-Moused onto the lug nuts. Drill the lip of the rim for sheet metal screws. There's ~1/2" of rubber behind the rim before you'd nick the cable in the tire's bead. Off-roaders call it a bead-lock.

It's swap meet season, why not real Moons?

The clip-ons would not fit, which is why I mailed back the ones that I had bought. Everybody seems to lose those anyway. I would need to find the screw ones.

freebeard 05-30-2013 01:53 AM

I got a set of 4 at a swap a few years back for $5. But they have big notches where the three holes used to be. :(

Xist 05-30-2013 05:42 AM

How about I tap the discs into the rims?

Does that ever go poorly? If the discs were notched, what would have happened to the rims?

Xist 05-30-2013 08:19 AM

What about something like this? IdealŪ 201/301 Stainless Steel 57 Worm Gear Drive Hose Clamp, 7/16 - 1 in Capacity | StaplesŪ I actually have found fifteen- and sixteen-inch ones, as well as custom kits. How difficult would it be to bend in the edges on a cylinder? What about the fastener?

justme1969 05-30-2013 09:58 AM

had a set 1x
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 373787)
How about I tap the discs into the rims?

Does that ever go poorly? If the discs were notched, what would have happened to the rims?

I am also going your route Im guessing you have 14" wheels also so the 15 " pan after drilling hole for the valve will fill the rim inside.
I had a purchased set with clips one time before and clips broke over time and would not seat on old American racing wheels so I removed wheels from truck drilled through safe portion then transferred holes into hubs.
Next I tapped wheel holes to 6-32 and picked up circuit board stand off from radio shack. screwed into wheels and used nylock nuts on hub caps.
the wheel covers squeek slightly at low speeds to resolve that I used some silicon and squeezed a dab here and there before bolting covers on.
this combo served me well for another 3 years of service.
rust coated them so I painted them red to match the truck and sold vehicle for a ten year moonie service life.
standoffs were really cheap and come in different sizes and can also be screwed together to effect length and mounting issues.
FYI. not all standoffs are male or female or 1/2" or 3/4" etc. look into it before ya start, and dont run drill into aired sections of your wheel..

freebeard 05-30-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Does that ever go poorly? If the discs were notched, what would have happened to the rims?
I never saw the rims, it looks like the disks were removed and reattached repeatedly (?) All three holes were worn out the same amount. Standard attachement is three sheet metal screws maybe 3/8" long.

A hose clamp 50" long? You can chain them together, but i can't see gripping the edge of the disk and rim working and the air would be seeing a step the width of the hose clamp.

Here's a picture that's on topic.
http://i.imgur.com/UNeFj.jpg

Oversized disks, stand-offs, valve stem hole.

Xist 05-30-2013 08:17 PM

Is there a reason that moon discs are convex? Wouldn't you want the rim\cover to extend as far as the sidewall, but not any further?

My trays arrived today. It turns out that my fifteen-inch wheels have sixteen-inch rims and these are about an inch and a quarter small. I think that I will go to that restaurant supply store and see if they have sixteen-inch discs. I just paid $11.50 to mail back the hubcaps. If I pay the same amount to return these trays, I would only get half of my money back.

What else can I do with these things?

freebeard 05-31-2013 01:13 AM

The tire has 15" holes and the rim has (apparently) a 5/8" lip.

Moon disk are convex for strength, spindle clearance (sometimes you'll see them with a hole or bullet in the middle) but mostly so they *catch the light* better.

Overhanging the lip? Everyone opines that the disk would wear on the tire sidewall and simply destroy it. I think the tire and the disk are moving together and it would be more of a press and release, at the bottom where the sidewall deforms. The guys that run the Mariani Farms roadster know the facts.

Quote:

What else can I do with these things?
When I try to process that I have a halting problem.

Xist 05-31-2013 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 373962)
The tire has 15" holes and the rim has (apparently) a 5/8" lip.

Moon disk are convex for strength, spindle clearance (sometimes you'll see them with a hole or bullet in the middle) but mostly so they *catch the light* better.

Overhanging the lip? Everyone opines that the disk would wear on the tire sidewall and simply destroy it. I think the tire and the disk are moving together and it would be more of a press and release, at the bottom where the sidewall deforms. The guys that run the Mariani Farms roadster know the facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 373920)
What else can I do with these things?

When I try to process that I have a halting problem.

I wonder if everybody but me knew that hubcaps were an inch and a quarter bigger than the rims. Moon disks are mostly convex to catch the light better? I was not sure if the hole or bullet was to catch the light better.

Is a round shape better than a flat one if it has a larger frontal area? I continue to think that you would want the sides to be flat, although if you are going to have the caps bigger than the rims, it does not make sense to me to have them smaller than the middle of the sidewall, so that you have one curve, as in the picture that you shared. I would think that if the edge of the moon disk is level with the widest part of the sidewall, when it flattens against the ground, it would push against the disk, which would flex away, to whatever extent is possible, but if the disk reaches the inner portion of the sidewall, towards the center, the rubber would also push against the edge of the disk, which could cause more wear, but I do not know anything.

I was asking if anyone had any idea what to do with aluminum discs, these trays that I bought. If I return them I would only receive eleven or twelve dollars if shipping charges are the same as they were for my hubcaps.

If moon disks are convex for strength, but they creak because they flex, are they too convex or not enough?

Would they creak if they were attached to the lugnuts, like mine? I know that exposing the holes would make them less aerodynamic, but I imagine that can be fixed.

freebeard 05-31-2013 03:54 AM

Holes or spindles to clear the axle end. By 'catch the light' I meant glister in a becoming way. Bling.

Convex for rigidity. The frontal area is minimal and exists in a region that has problematic airflow anyway. I'm for major Minority-Report style bubbles.
Quote:

Somehow I do not like the look that is "all the rage" on here. I wonder if having straight edges would be good or bad.
"The look" being completely flat, or having that pizza pan lip?


I'm not clear on whether you have pans or separators. And how the edge is finished.

I don't know about creaking hubcaps. For years I've run mag wheels or stock VW logoed/logoless (like baby moons) VW hubcaps; not full disks. If disks are pinned along the edge (3 screws is sufficient) how can they creak?

You could center the disks (that you don't want to return) in the rim and they could be fastened similar to this way. Use stand-offs to leave 1/4-1/2" gap all around so air can circulate to the brakes. A new look.

You can actually do a lot with tire sidewall contour. Other than selection about the only control you have is rim width. And that has to balance with turn-in and possibly other effects.

Xist 05-31-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 373980)
Holes or spindles to clear the axle end. By 'catch the light' I meant glister in a becoming way. Bling.

Convex for rigidity. The frontal area is minimal and exists in a region that has problematic airflow anyway. I'm for major Minority-Report style bubbles.


"The look" being completely flat, or having that pizza pan lip?


I'm not clear on whether you have pans or separators. And how the edge is finished.

I don't know about creaking hubcaps. For years I've run mag wheels or stock VW logoed/logoless (like baby moons) VW hubcaps; not full disks. If disks are pinned along the edge (3 screws is sufficient) how can they creak?

You could center the disks (that you don't want to return) in the rim and they could be fastened similar to this way. Use stand-offs to leave 1/4-1/2" gap all around so air can circulate to the brakes. A new look.

You can actually do a lot with tire sidewall contour. Other than selection about the only control you have is rim width. And that has to balance with turn-in and possibly other effects.

Well, when I first found hubcaps, they were fake chrome, which cost extra. Real chrome definitely looks better, but still, I do not even like the term "bling," let alone the pursuit thereof.

These wheels? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ricket_Car.jpg

I do not remember that car, just this one, which has conventional rims: http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-jk...A-1280x960.jpg

I found some pizza pans on walmart.com and it says "electrolytic tin plated steel." I think that they look cheap and they are prone to rusting. I do not care about them being flat, what I bought is flatter still!

I have separators and the edge is just cut. I imagine that I would want to round that. I also wonder about using dissimilar metals.

I have pictures, but I am not planning on posting them until Monday. I had a test this morning and I really needed to study for it. I do not understand, it is like I am trying to find anything to do but schoolwork, when it is the most important.

Having wheel covers smaller than the wheels themselves may indeed be a new look, but I do not like it.

I did not understand much of how those moon disks were attached, the guy had tools that I doubt that I would purchase, except for the ones that he made himself. I really liked the finished product, though.

I think that part of the problem is that I have only seen Dzus' fasteners mentioned a few times here and I had not heard of Cleco fasteners.

As for creaking, I wonder if it is because the cover flexes differently than the wheel. I do not know if that would apply equally to tapped-in eyes or clipped ones.

What if I made my own fiberglass hubcaps? I could mold the outer area on 16" dividers and then copy my bolt area, properly receded so the outer edges are flush, but the lugnuts correctly pass through?

freebeard 05-31-2013 02:46 PM

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...ot-05-copy.jpg

I guess I was thinking of I, Robot. And it's more like 4-wheel skirts with reversed-out hubcaps. :confused:
Quote:

I have pictures, but I am not planning on posting them until Monday. I had a test this morning and I really needed to study for it. I do not understand, it is like I am trying to find anything to do but schoolwork, when it is the most important.
When I was in college I'd look at my last quarter's GPA. If it was above the all school average I'd work more (pizza chef/deliveries) and study less. If it fell below the all school average I'd study more and work less. I was an average student.

Today, I'm out of town for the weekend, visiting family and the NW Bug-Run.

Quote:

What if I made my own fiberglass hubcaps?
Use a water tank or a big satellite dish for a form, and use carbon fiber. :cool:

And as for the jig in that Street Rodder article, one could jury-rig that, or use a big lathe for indexing if one have access to...one.

Xist 05-31-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 374034)
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...ot-05-copy.jpg

I guess I was thinking of I, Robot. And it's more like 4-wheel skirts with reversed-out hubcaps. :confused:


When I was in college I'd look at my last quarter's GPA. If it was above the all school average I'd work more (pizza chef/deliveries) and study less. If it fell below the all school average I'd study more and work less. I was an average student.

Today, I'm out of town for the weekend, visiting family and the NW Bug-Run.


Use a water tank or a big satellite dish for a form, and use carbon fiber. :cool:

And as for the jig in that Street Rodder article, one could jury-rig that, or use a big lathe for indexing if one have access to...one.

Ah, yes, I never watched that because I read... a book...

The lowest GPA requirement that I saw for a graduate program was something like 3.12 and last semester I had a 2.58. My cumulative is 2.94, but that is now 143 credits. I really wish that my mistakes on my first Bachelor's did not carry over to this one, but last term's GPA was worse than I had averaged, although I honestly think that it was the first time that I did not drop at least one class. I do not remember where had the lowest standard, but if I cannot get into grad school, I am seriously considering transferring to another school, getting the same degree from a different school, and hoping to find better dating opportunities.

Except that I would be thirty-five and most girls (the program is 90% female) are right out of high school.

Why is it so important to you that my wheels be convex?! :)

The satellite dish is an interesting idea. I just think that they would be simpler and lighter if they were flat, but I might be able to sell them with a negligible profit if they were moon disks.

Shortie771 05-31-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 374034)

I would like to see that thing in a wind tunnel. I wonder what the drag coefficient is on it.

freebeard 05-31-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Why is it so important to you that my wheels be convex?!
Here's the trick: it isn't. I'm just giving you a plausible reason to not do your homework.

Xist 05-31-2013 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 374073)
Here's the trick: it isn't. I'm just giving you a plausible reason to not do your homework.

Please define plausibility and how it applies.

Well, if it is not important to you, then I guess that it does not matter. While I was under the impression that it was, I figured that if you helped me figure out how to do it, I might as well do it how you suggest.

How much does it cost to work with carbon fiber? I liked the trays because they were cheap. They are only supposed to increase my mileage marginally.

Shortie771 06-01-2013 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 374034)
Use a water tank or a big satellite dish for a form, and use carbon fiber. :cool:

That's pretty much what I'm about to try. Going to use a piece of cardboard that came in a Wal-Mart refrigerated pizza box which happens to be the perfect size for my rims and lay some fiberglass resin over it to create a mold. Then I'm going to fiberglass 4 identical disks with it. Not as cool as carbon fiber, but it's cheaper, very light, on hand and it's still plenty strong.

Xist 06-01-2013 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortie771 (Post 374126)
That's pretty much what I'm about to try. Going to use a piece of cardboard that came in a Wal-Mart refrigerated pizza box which happens to be the perfect size for my rims and lay some fiberglass resin over it to create a mold. Then I'm going to fiberglass 4 identical disks with it. Not as cool as carbon fiber, but it's cheaper, very light, on hand and it's still plenty strong.

How do you plan on attaching them?

Shortie771 06-01-2013 12:07 PM

I haven't decided on that yet. I think I'm going to try using 3 screws on the center cap. If that fails I will have to try something else.

freebeard 06-03-2013 12:48 AM

Shortie771 -- I hope to see the result. I got some sheet ABS to make some fender skirt with. with an accurate form one could heat-drape and trim ABS into a circle.

I went to the NW Bug-Run swap to try and make a point. Within 3 minutes I'd found 2 spun-aluminum Moon disks. But the guy with the price would "be back in a few minutes." I went to put batteries in my camera and was back in 5 minutes; he'd returned and sold them (for $10). :( That's swappin'.

Xist 06-03-2013 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 374391)
Shortie771 -- I hope to see the result. I got some sheet ABS to make some fender skirt with. with an accurate form one could heat-drape and trim ABS into a circle.

I went to the NW Bug-Run swap to try and make a point. Within 3 minutes I'd found 2 spun-aluminum Moon disks. But the guy with the price would "be back in a few minutes." I went to put batteries in my camera and was back in 5 minutes; he'd returned and sold them (for $10). :( That's swappin'.

I am sorry about that! Better luck next time!

Well, August 11th there is some giant swap meet in Pomona, California. West Coast's Largest Swap Meet & Classic Car Show | Pomona Swap Meet

Should I drive six hours each way for moon disks? :D

Apparently, there was one today perhaps half an hour from where I had drill, but I was at drill.

There is one two hours away: 13th Annual Classics at Prescott, Car Show & swap Meet

If nothing else, I could base my own disks off of moonies, to make Freebeard happy. :D

freebeard 06-03-2013 03:46 AM

Hey, I got to tell the story and I saved the $10. So no worries.

It's swap meet season. My next opportunity is Father's Day.

I have a camera that's working (new batteries did wonders :)). I should patch the 4 I've got to show how I want to do it. It should be kind of neat.

One swap meet Moon disk and enough carbon fiber for 2 layers X4. :thumbup:

Burlap and polyester resin wheel disks?

Xist 06-05-2013 04:02 AM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...81024645_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...12229541_n.jpg

They look really plain and boring, as well as too small and off-center. I guess that is a good argument for moonies.

We already established that wheel covers need to be one inch larger than the rims, but here is some evidence in favor of me not being completely mad, although I admit that it is circumstantial:https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...33084387_n.jpg

Xist 06-05-2013 04:13 AM

Would this work or do I need a flat dish? Satellite Dish Antenna | eBay http://i.ebayimg.com/t/satellite-dis...ZC!~~60_57.JPG

NoD~ 06-05-2013 08:38 AM

what is the exact measurement of those pans you ordered? Just curious!

Xist 06-05-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoD~ (Post 374827)
what is the exact measurement of those pans you ordered? Just curious!

The page says eighteen gauge, so 0.0403" or 1.02mm (according to Wikipedia). I measured it just under 15"--14 7/8"s, I think.

freebeard 06-05-2013 01:19 PM

Is the DirectTV even 15" in diameter? It needs to be symmetrical, a 'body of revolution' if you will.

The first picture in #34 is "plain and boring", the 2nd one looks Blurred in Photoshop. If you get bigger disks you will have to deal with the wheel balancing weights (notch the disks or use stick-on weights) used for mag wheels.

One could jack up each wheel (or do 4 disks on one wheel) and spin it while holding sandpaper against the disk—just enough to hide those random marks. It'd look better when they're turning.

NachtRitter 06-05-2013 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 374814)

One option you have (which I did on my VX) is to have a wheel/tire shop remove the clip-on weight and rebalance using stick-on weights (which go inside the wheel) though that may or may not be worth it to you. At least, that would give you the ability to center the covers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 374814)
They look really plain and boring, as well as too small and off-center. I guess that is a good argument for moonies.

Consider them to be a canvas... :) I can imagine all kinds of fun stuff you could paint on those... spirals, tie die, smiley face, the pattern of the old reel-to-reel tapes, ...

freebeard 06-05-2013 01:36 PM

I wouldn't notch a bigger disk, what if you rebalance the wheel?

Hypnotic spirals... :eek:


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