EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   Introductions (https://ecomodder.com/forum/introductions.html)
-   -   Curious newcomer from Eastern ND. (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/curious-newcomer-eastern-nd-30854.html)

bannie 01-12-2015 08:13 AM

Curious newcomer from Eastern ND.
 
Hello,

I have been lurking this website a while unregistered. I have a pretty long daily commute (63 miles), and I'm looking at options to improve efficiency of my current vehicles, and also researching options for my next used vehicle purchase with efficiency in mind (likely Honda Civic, Geo Metro, or something else).

I currently drive a '97 Camry V6. It used to get only 22 to 24 mpg, and I met a Toyota mechanic who plugged my car in, and modified the fuel and transmission shifting settings in my system, and that boosted it to 25 city, 29 highway. The car now has 278,000 miles and driving 126 miles a day is going to quickly reduce its lifespan.

I'm a home DIY mechanic, CAD designer (AutoCAD, Draftsight, AutoCAD Mechanical, Pro/E PTC Creo 2.0) with ~8 years experience professionally, and working to become a subject matter expert on GD&T.

I'm looking forward to learning as much as I possibly can here, and hopefully be a contributing member wherever I can...

elhigh 01-12-2015 08:34 AM

Welcome! One of the mods will be along to make it more official.

My Dad is from a tiny town in Minnesota, about 60m ESE of Fargo - extreme eastern North Dakota, you could say. Certainly Fargo was about the nearest city of any note within an hour's drive.

120+ miles per day will certainly rack them up, but flat prairie means the loading isn't ever that bad. The bigger killer to your car will be wintertime, which in ND is nothing to sneeze at.

Block heaters, grille blocks, warm air intakes I think will be some of the best places to start. Aero is certainly important, especially if you're spending so much time at cruising velocity, but in your case it may be more important to first mitigate some of the extremes the engine experiences, and when doing aero to do them with snow resistance in mind. You may have to dial back some of the bigger measures like airdams, considering that they will be spending at least part of their time as ersatz snow plows.

A microscopic cruiser like a Metro would be a good choice regardless, but I think we can all agree that when the snow flies, you're going to want something with a bit more beef. I could be wrong however, and we have an awful lot of Canadians on this forum; they can almost certainly speak with more authority to that than I can.

Fat Charlie 01-12-2015 08:54 AM

Welcome to the fun!

Modifying the shift points was a great move. Getting some instrumentation like a ScanGauge or UltraGauge will help you make the most of that. It's one thing to be told "keep your speed down," it's another thing entirely to have on board instruments telling you how your car performs at what speeds.

Enjoy.

Daox 01-12-2015 09:34 AM

Welcome to posting on the site.

As we tell most people, instrumentation is always a great start. So, a scangauge, ultragauge, or bluetooth adapter with torque on a smartphone should be on your short list. That'll help you tweak your driving habits. After that, I think aerodynamic modifications will be your best bang for your buck.

Have you considered replacing the car with something more efficient?

MetroMPG 01-12-2015 10:14 AM

Welcome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bannie (Post 463263)
I currently drive a '97 Camry V6. It used to get only 22 to 24 mpg, and I met a Toyota mechanic who plugged my car in, and modified the fuel and transmission shifting settings in my system, and that boosted it to 25 city, 29 highway.

I'd be interested in learning exactly what was done. The Camry has been the best-selling car in the US for years. If it's relatively easy to reflash the autotragic transmission logic, I'm sure other owners would be interested!

As for finding a more efficient highway cruiser, they're definitely out there. We have a fun thread going about cheap, used beaters with 35+ mpg US highway ratings, if you haven't seen it:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...mpg-30489.html

EG: '02 Corolla - 37 mpg highway - $1500

If you have the luxury of time, good choices always come up.

spacemanspif 01-12-2015 10:39 AM

With that long of a commute you will want to sacrifice some eco for creature comforts. I'd stay away from the micro sized Metro and look more for a 4cyl Camry. Look at what they offer compared to tiny cars and see if the trade off is worth it for you. But like was said already, you will have to deal with snow so fowl weather abilities should be a major priority as well.

Fat Charlie 01-12-2015 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacemanspif (Post 463286)
But like was said already, you will have to deal with snow so fowl weather abilities should be a major priority as well.

Heh. Fowl weather:

http://blog.nwf.org/a/6a00d8341ca022...cde1970c-320wi

And now we can return to more constructive posts. :D

Frank Lee 01-12-2015 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elhigh (Post 463266)
A microscopic cruiser like a Metro would be a good choice regardless, but I think we can all agree that when the snow flies, you're going to want something with a bit more beef. I could be wrong however, and we have an awful lot of Canadians on this forum; they can almost certainly speak with more authority to that than I can.

Where did the Ecomodder forum go??? :eek: :rolleyes: :mad:

There's nothing wrong with cruising a Metro or some such in this environment. In fact they are perfect and much more suitable than the typical ubiquitous 5,000 lb V8 4x4 solo commuter vehicle.

Frank Lee 01-12-2015 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 463272)
As we tell most people, instrumentation is always a great start. So, a scangauge, ultragauge, or bluetooth adapter with torque on a smartphone should be on your short list. That'll help you tweak your driving habits. After that, I think aerodynamic modifications will be your best bang for your buck.

Instrumentation for droning on a highway for hours on end? :confused:

Here you can actually use a cruise control to hold steady throttle. I usually pick a cruising speed nearer to 50 mph while many North Dakotans seem to prefer 80 mph. Guess who spends more time stopping at gas stations.

Frank Lee 01-12-2015 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie (Post 463267)
Welcome to the fun!

Modifying the shift points was a great move. Getting some instrumentation like a ScanGauge or UltraGauge will help you make the most of that. It's one thing to be told "keep your speed down," it's another thing entirely to have on board instruments telling you how your car performs at what speeds.

Enjoy.

Think of a slate pool table. Then think of snapping a chalkline mark on it. That is a ND road. The distances are far enough such that a motorist can test different speeds and fe tank-to-tank and get a feel for the results fairly quickly.

Just sayin', instrumentation is nice but not necessary.

kafer65 01-12-2015 04:08 PM

Welcome! Wheel covers in the snow may be a mod with issues. They work well otherwise but I'd be worried they may get torn off in hard packed snow. Airing up tires also questionable in snow. I'd like to hear others with experience on that one. All of the aboved for heat retention are good for sure to get lean quickly. What about an manual steering conversion to reduce cold fluid pumping losses? Tall skinny tires?
How's idle oil pressure and cylinder compression and idle fuel pressure at 260k miles on that engine? Are you thinking you can get another 100k out of it?

Fat Charlie 01-12-2015 04:11 PM

Tank over tank results in varying conditions just aren't the same as instantaneous mpg and gph results.

With a gauge you can learn on one commute what would otherwise take testing over several tanks to establish and memorize. With a gauge once that's done you'll also be better able to adjust to changing conditions instead of just knowing what your car will do on a pool table. Besides, the distances are far enough means that minor differences in results add up quickly- all the more reason to have instant data!

MetroMPG 01-12-2015 05:09 PM

I have driven with well above placard tire pressures for years and years, in snow & sun

In a tiny Geo Metro (Firefly). In Canada. Sometimes (often, actually) over long highway distances.

I can hear the shock & horror. :O

(OK, so not this particular winter what with the winter beater Civic. But it's still well above placard.)

kafer65 01-12-2015 07:54 PM

No shock. Maybe a little awe. I'd do it myself but I haven't encountered any substantial snow since I started using fully aired up tires. Good to know its been field tested thoroughly by our friends to the north:thumbup:

spacemanspif 01-13-2015 07:29 AM

My old Saturn was a loud car to ride in even when my exhaust wasn't leaking under the cabin and I can't stand to be in my sister's beater Metro because of how loud it is inside the car, and that is only driving on back roads at 50mph. I can't imagine a 60mi commute in that car for more than a couple days which is why I encourage some sacrifice for creature comforts. Considering OP is spending 10hours a week in the car, a quiet cabin and comfy seat are qualities that shouldn't be overlooked and I have yet to be in a Metro with either of those.

Frank Lee 01-13-2015 08:30 AM

Perhaps you should sample a non-beater representative of the model before condemning all.

elhigh 01-13-2015 09:30 AM

MetroMPG is precisely who I was thinking of, driving a Firefly in the Great White North. If anyone can tell us of experience with that featherweight in foul weather, he's the guy.

Frank, I'm considering a little more than just sheer economy when I'm talking about "beef." The guy is spending a couple of hours a day (80mph cruising velocity may reduce that just a *tad*) on the highway, and the Metro, thrifty as it is, is a bit of a buzzbox. I would sacrifice a few MPG for a nicer environment within which to spend so much of my day.

That said, the comment about looking for a 4-banger Camry is a good one. Maximum power output is a small consideration when so much of the day is spent at the modest loads of highway cruising.

Frank Lee 01-13-2015 02:03 PM

It's up to him to decide what's acceptable. I just can't believe I'm seeing this on EM. I've done 600 mile one-way trips in a '98 Metro hatch; if I didn't already have such a ridiculously over-sized fleet I'd have a Metro of my own for sure. It goes through snow, it has good heat, the seats are comfy, it is quiet (new exhaust and good tires)... I'm just :confused: that some wouldn't think this is the ultimate commuter car.

MetroMPG 01-13-2015 02:08 PM

Can't fight lifestyle inflation! :P

Frank Lee 01-13-2015 02:24 PM

I see... how about an Expedition loaded up with about 8 kids? This is my recommendation. Gas is cheap and ND obviously is representative of the entire globe with all that wasted undeveloped space- fill 'em up!

elhigh 01-13-2015 04:12 PM

I thought the point of EM was to make the most of what you have, not insist on everyone buying the thriftiest car possible. Ecomodder, not Ecoshopper.

Frank Lee 01-13-2015 11:31 PM

I'm not insisting he change cars. It's the notion that a Metro is somehow "less than" or unsuitable that puzzles me.

Fat Charlie 01-14-2015 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 463448)
Can't fight lifestyle inflation! :P

Performing necessary mainenance can be considered making a sacrifice for creature comforts, but...

In a car with bad aero a grille block is kind of an assumed mod, so why not a little Dynamat in a car that's a little loud? Livability mods are just as valid as mpg mods, probably more so because they let you look at cars you otherwise wouldn't.

But after you've become an ecomodder, at some point in the future you're going to be a shopper. You've got to do a real mod or two at that point, once again with the nut behind the wheel. A Mega Cab with tow mirrors and a drag chute just isn't going to fly anymore, no matter what your friends drive. Fuel economy needs to be on your list and anything that takes away from it needs to be justified.

In no-budget used car shopping, mpg is obviously way below initial price and probable reliability, but once you get past "I have $500 and I need a car this afternoon" you do need to step up and be an Ecoshopper.

bannie 01-14-2015 01:30 PM

Wow!

THanks for the great welcome, guys!

I guess for a bit more info...

I live pretty much in the FAR South-East corner of ND. Flat prairie lands and virtually ZERO hills. So my only concerns for mileage is Ice/Snow and Wind.

My current vehicles:

1997 Toyota Camry 3.0L V6 (1MZ-FE)
278,000 Miles, averaging just under 30 MPG.

2002 Chevy Impala
250,000 Miles
3400 SFI Engine
Paid $25 for it, sunk in $475 into it for all new engine gaskets, head machining, plugs, wires, serpentine belt, and it's running like a dream. This is my wife's daily driver for hauling our daughter. Averaging 31 mpg with aggressive driving - likely that could improve with changing driving styles.

1979 Chevy K20 Scottsdale (Camper Special)
407,000+ miles
Goodwrench Crate 350 (about 85,000 miles)
Edelbrock intake, carburetor & valve covers / filter.
4-on-the-Floor Manual, 4x4,
14 Bolt rear axle, rear air suspension for campers.
About 9 MPG average, I can get 11 MPG if I'm careful! LoL!

1979 Honda CM400T motorcycle for summer fun.
Pretty much stock bike except for a small windscreen.
Gets 65 MPG if I keep it around 55mph.
At 48 to 50 mph, I can get close to 70 MPG with it.

I also have a 1955 Farmall 400 with 7' Allied snowblower...
It helps me get the 3.7 miles to the nearest paved road in the winter months, and mows the ~11 acre homestead I own. I've been working on a design for a downdraft stratified woodgas generator for backup power on the tractor. Its slow & simple design makes this not too difficult to acheive.

I work as a Quality Technician for a very reputable and popular manufacturer in the area. Lots of co-workers travel from miles and miles around to work at the same place, so many of them have Metros, hybrids, and pickup trucks.

I'm very good with any CAD software, CAM software & tools, I do my own reloading & gun designing & building for a hobby.

I ***HATE*** modern cars with a passion. I hate dealing with electrical wiring, sensor faults / failures, shorts, and other electrical / computer crap in cars. I love simplicity, and ease of maintenance. I want a car that's carbureted, or has such a simple EFI system that it works a lot like a carbureted engine, like some early EFI engines. I love the simplicity of my GM 350, but hate the poor mileage.

I specifically bought my Honda 400 because it's a simple 2 cylinder, carb engine, with kick start & electric start, and is incredibly easy to work on myself.

I'm going to have to look more at the links in this thread, and also look at good, reliable, low-cost, high-efficiency used vehicles.

My budget for my next used car will likely be around the $3000 to $4000 range, and I'm hoping to get something efficient, but with Automatic (I know) transmission - so my wife can use it as a backup vehicle if necessary (she has a disability & needs Auto).

That's why I was thinking perhaps a Metro with Automatic? Or a used Civic, and install something to let me see instantaneous MPG to help me develop my driving habits, and maybe do a couple modifications?

Any other ideas / suggestions?

MetroMPG 01-14-2015 01:50 PM

Oh my -- stay away from the automatic Metros! They took a 10 MPG hit with antiquated non-lock-up 3-speed slushboxes.

Some older automatic Corollas were equally antiquated & inefficient.

Make sure you do the research when choosing a budget econo-slushbox.

elhigh 01-14-2015 02:20 PM

Bannie,
Thanks for telling us more about your fleet. You might want to start a garage page for your daily drivers; maintaining a record of results helps a lot in determining what works and what doesn't.

Granted, looking at your bio I don't think anyone really needs to tell you that.

Farmall 400, hey? That's a sweet piece of equipment, certainly means you don't wish the snowplow would come by when you can shift for yourself. I have a '45 A, but since I live on 1/4 acre I only really ever use it for fair weather fun, motoring to the post office and such. It's a smile-and-wave sort of tractor.

If you get the chance, look up Changzuki elsewhere on the EM. On top of building a compact diesel engine into a Riley kit car (and getting bonkers mileage numbers out of that), he also screwed a small Chinese diesel engine into a Suzuki bike frame. It ain't fast, but it is thrifty. Fascinating read. If you're comfortable at modest speeds on a modest bike in the name of immodest mileage, well, it gets the creative juices going.

bannie 01-14-2015 04:09 PM

That's good to know about the automatics...

Part of me would love to have something like the XR-3 Hybrid, but I may not have adequate time to build something to the same detail level of the XR-3, and it may not quite be in the budget as well.

I've always toyed with the idea of building something similar to a simplified version of the XR-3, but using the drivetrain of a Honda Goldwing, with steeply reclined seats, and a welded steel tube structure for a safety cage, and use the front wheels & steering / suspension from an older style 70's VW Beetle.

Or perhaps purchase a Kubota Diesel, and mate it with a drivetrain, and drop it into a more simplified & low-cost kit car design based off a factory car...

Here at work, the engineering team puts on an annual "Pinewood Derby" contest using a highly advanced track with timers, etc... There are numerous classes - like BSA class, and Anything Goes... It's incredibly impressive to see how engineers design for aerodynamics, and to see what does and doesn't work best. These guys use CNC and 3D modeling to cut their pinewood derby cars to truly amazing designs, and use clever weight distribution... To see how those designs worked out aerodynamically was impressive.

Seeing custom designs that significantly improve aerodynamics is inspiring to say the least. But I also have to keep cost and self-maintainability and long term parts availability & commonality in mind.

What do you guys suggest? Or just get a used Carolla?

Edited: Yeah, I LOVE my Farmall! I truly wish there was a way to install a Farmall 400 / SuperM engine into a car... I absolutely LOVE being able to completely rebuild the engine for under $500, including replacement cylinder sleeves, replacement pistons/rings... Engine wears out? Just re-line it, new gaskets, check your valves & seating - good to go! They're so easy to work on and keep running. It's still running on a 1987 battery too - why use the battery when I can crank start it?

Too bad car manufacturers don't design engines to have lifelong replacement & repair capability. I'm sure I'm at least the 3rd generation to own that tractor, and it's running great.

It takes the township about 3-4 days after a storm to get around to plowing out my way, and I have one neighbor with a large brand new Case IH and he blows about 2.5 miles to the main road - so I only have to blow out about 1 mile, about 3 passes to clear the road (unless it's really deep). I used to drive the tractor into town for food & supplies during a couple huge blizzards our first winter in ND (before I had the 79 Chevy). When the snow gets extremely deep the narrow-front wheels no longer do anything for steering - I have to steer the tractor with the left & right brake pedals to keep it on the road if snow is over 2-3 feet deep! But it'll run through anything!

Frank Lee 01-14-2015 04:21 PM

GoldWing = inefficient. Look elsewhere.

spacemanspif 01-14-2015 04:48 PM

One good thing is that your commute is basically a set-and-forget drive where cruise control can be used without feeling guilty. On many new-er cars the manuals are geared much shorter than the autos so for constant cruising an auto might do better considering the lower cruising speed. Certain cars are more simple than others, you'll just have to pop the hood and decide for yourself how much spaghetti you are willing to deal with.

FWIW My brother had an Impala like yours and my fiance has a 2008 with 3.5 V6. My bro isn't an overly aggressive driver and used to get low 30s and I swear my woman's 08 could beat my Focus on my work commute (90% highway) if it were driven the same way.

UltArc 01-14-2015 08:26 PM

I'll just leave this here...

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ems-18892.html

Whatever you decide, I look forward to seeing how it turns out :)

mikeyjd 01-14-2015 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 463630)
I'll just leave this here...

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ems-18892.html

Whatever you decide, I look forward to seeing how it turns out :)

I was going to say Honda Insight. The automaitcs can get 60+mpg on a commute. Prius would be another option, albeit a little more money if you want a 2nd gen.

bannie 01-15-2015 08:02 AM

Wow... Thanks for that great info!

I didn't know I could get a Honda Insight for that price!

Looking around, there's a pretty nice one for under $3000. Looking at the Carfax on it, it looks like it's been a bit neglected and likely needs another tranny fluid change, but all in all, looks like a decent vehicle.

It's a 2001, but looks like the guy bought it with a loan, took care of it, paid it off, and then took out a shady second loan on the vehicle for cash. He defaulted on his payments, and after 3 years they managed to Repossess it. Sell it at auction to a dealer, and there it sits... Overpriced by about $500, but not too bad looking.

I just bought a bunch of stocks on the stock market, made some major repairs to my house and put in a new water softener, so I'm a bit low on money, but I will definitely keep an Insight in mind for my future vehicle!

For the short term, I'm going to look into possibly buying some gauges to put into my Camry or Impala to start learning better driving habits. I'll also have to start leaving earlier for work too.

elhigh 01-16-2015 09:31 AM

The cool thing about all that refurb work on the tractor: you can do it with the engine still in place. And it just happens to be at a convenient working height.

Those first-gen Insights work just fine with the IMA battery failed, I think you can even run the vehicle reliably with the IMA pack completely out of the vehicle. That's a 60+ lb. weight reduction on a car that only weighs 1800 to start with, significant.

G1 Insight also use a timing chain instead of a belt, so you can have some confidence that even in the face of poor maintenance, at least the valves haven't met the cylinders. If I didn't already have a car payment to meet, I'd be in the market for a G1.

bannie 01-19-2015 09:02 AM

I sure do like the simple and reliable design of the Farmall engines!

If only there was a way to incorporate them into a normal street legal vehicle with an efficient transmission!

In the meantime, I'm still pretty interested in designing and building my own reverse trike design though. I'll have to find out what might be the best engine / transmission combination to use for it... I'm a fan of Honda motorcycles, but something modern and fuel injected might be the most efficient option. I like the idea of a lightweight, efficient, fun, and all-weather motorcycle / trike designed and built by myself.

For a daily driver all year round, I'll probably go with a used Honda Insight if I can find one when my Camry finally does die, but it's now at 280,000 and still going strong with great compression in every cylinder and no other problems (aside from little interior issues, rust, and other old-car issues).

Does anybody have any suggestions on motorcycle recommendations?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com