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Cd 06-07-2008 10:45 AM

CV boots-need mechanical advice please
 
I'm not sure what these things are called, but from what I understand they are CV joint related.
Can someone in the know explain what these rubber boots are and what they do ?
Do they just seal in the grease, or do they perform some other vital function ?

If they do indeed just seal in the grease, can I just clamp them down using a hose clamp, or must I get them replaced ?

What could happen if I continue driving the car with these things split like this ? Will I lose control of the car and crash, or have my wheels fall off ?

I'd like to just be able to clamp them back into place and forget about them, but I'd rather be safe than cheap.

Thanks for any advice !

(This is on a '93 Civic by the way.)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/...08f917bd_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/...9b3f0089_b.jpg

thebrad 06-07-2008 11:16 AM

They protect that joint from dirt, grime, and other elements that could get in there and ruin the ball bearing. Get them replaced ASAP or the repair will only get more expensive.

Since it's a Civic it might just be cheaper to replace the whole axle (remanufactured/refurbished ones are readily available), especially if you can DIY.

You also got the name right. :thumbup:

Coyote X 06-07-2008 11:26 AM

Is it the cv joint or a tie rod?

Looks like it is on the steering to me :)

thebrad 06-07-2008 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyote X (Post 32389)
Is it the cv joint or a tie rod?

Looks like it is on the steering to me :)

Haha, looks like you're correct. Didn't really pay attention to the location of it from the first pic.

digitaldissent 06-07-2008 11:31 AM

those are inner tie-rod boots

I would check to make sure there is no "play" in the tie-rod ends before just changing the boot. Maybe be better to just change the joint while your at it.

get an alignment when you are done :)

ttoyoda 06-07-2008 12:09 PM

You will have to doublecheck cause I do not know your engine/transmission details, but
Here:
http://bkhondaparts.com/billkay/jsp/...itch=&hidIrno=

14 53534-SR3-A52 DUST SEAL, TIE ROD
( No Color ) 1 1993 CIVIC 18.21

15 53534-SR3-N52 DUST SEAL, TIE ROD
( No Color ) 1 1993 CIVIC 12.92

And yes you need to change these asap. The crap that gets on the rod will drag back into the seal on the power steering rack and make the seals there leak. Then you will be unhappy.

Use a caliper to measure how much thread is showing past the lock nut on each tie rod end before you take it apart. Put it back this way for your drive to the alignment shop.

Cd 06-07-2008 11:44 PM

What is a honest charge for doing that sort of work ?

digitaldissent 06-08-2008 12:15 AM

its been so long since I worked as a mechanic, best to call around and get quotes.

I would say no more than 2 hours labor for both sides even though with a lift and an impact gun I can remember doing those way faster than that.

let me now what kinda prices you get

thebrad 06-08-2008 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Cd (Post 32544)
What is a honest charge for doing that sort of work ?

I can try to get you the flat rate labor charge and OEM price cost from AllData within the next two weeks. I'll try cycling out to school tomorrow, see how far I get though, no promises.

Cd 06-08-2008 10:12 AM

So if these things just seal in the grease, why can't I just clean out the gunk in there, regrease it, and then clamp them down using a hose clamp ?

I know it won't work ( otherwise you guys would have suggested it already ) I was just wondering why it wouldn't work.

thebrad Thanks for the offer, but no stress ... I'll just call around to a few shops.

digitaldissent 06-08-2008 10:36 AM

I think technically it would work, but I don't think it would come out as well as you might imagine. It just wouldn't seal right and the boot would end up being too short and just tear again very soon.

You do need to get that done soon however because you are running the risk of ruining your steering rack. Not sure how mechanical you are but its really not that hard of a job if you wanted to try your self.

thebrad 06-11-2008 05:37 PM

Made it out there today here are the estimates from AllData.

Parts-
Manual steering boot: (r) 20.42, (l) 20.42
Power steering boot: (r) 23.77, (l) 16.85

Labor-
outer tie boot (one side, without toe-in adjustment) - .6
outer tie boot (both sides, without toe-in adjustment) - .9
inner tie boot (one side, without allignment) - 1.1
inner tie boot (both sides, without allignment) - 1.4

Cd 06-13-2008 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebrad (Post 33854)
Made it out there today here are the estimates from AllData.

Parts-
Manual steering boot: (r) 20.42, (l) 20.42
Power steering boot: (r) 23.77, (l) 16.85

Labor-
outer tie boot (one side, without toe-in adjustment) - .6
outer tie boot (both sides, without toe-in adjustment) - .9
inner tie boot (one side, without allignment) - 1.1
inner tie boot (both sides, without allignment) - 1.4


Thanks ! ( Can you translate it please ? )

ttoyoda 06-13-2008 09:57 AM

Parts is the cost of parts in dollars, for the boots themselves.
Labor is the time in decimal hours to do the work.
.5 would be half an hour or 30 minutes
Multiply the time by the "hourly labor rate" of the shop you are using
to get the total cost. Hourly labor rate might be around $75 per hour.
Then after all this you have to go get the front end aligned.
(This analysis is all a guess on my part by the way) :D

thebrad 06-13-2008 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttoyoda (Post 34451)
Parts is the cost of parts in dollars, for the boots themselves.
Labor is the time in decimal hours to do the work.
.5 would be half an hour or 30 minutes
Multiply the time by the "hourly labor rate" of the shop you are using
to get the total cost. Hourly labor rate might be around $75 per hour.
Then after all this you have to go get the front end aligned.
(This analysis is all a guess on my part by the way) :D

Bingo. :thumbup:

Just call around for estimates in your area to see if those estimates are in line, don't forget to ask what they charge for flat rate.

ttoyoda 06-13-2008 01:37 PM

Quote:

Bingo. :thumbup:
Thanks.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. ;)
I probably should have clarified that the boot cost in dollars is what the garage bills the owner of the car. It is not the price the garage pays for the boots. There needs to be some markup by the garage to compensate for the fuss of handling (ordering, storing, not-losing, returning-wrong-or-defective, paying the bills on) the parts. So don't use the parts prices you find online to (female dog used for breeding pups^*) at the garage people. Just like you would not insult the chef at a restaurant before you eat, and for the same reasons. :D

*word filter. I wonder if I can enter the equivalent of "rooster" or "miserly" ;)

Cd 06-26-2008 12:17 AM

I'm currently putting around ... maybe 35 or so miles on the car in a months time ( just to keep the car from falling apart ), so no rush at all to get this done.
Also, I called a shop or two and one fellow stated that I might as well just drive the car as is.
He said that unless I hear 'clicking' sounds when I turn corners , not to worry about it.

Since he made it sound like it was no big deal, I think I might go ahead and clean out the dirty grease ( it's not that dirty really but I want as little grit as possible in there ).
I'll just replace the grease with new grease ( do I need a special type, or is grease ...grease ? )
I'll then try and seal the gaps in the CV boot.

Thanks for the help folks !

Johnny Mullet 06-26-2008 06:48 AM

Um, is this a steering rack we are talking about or an axle joint because there should not be grease packed in a steering rack boot. Any fluid leaking from there would mean the rack is leaking power steering fluid.

Tooelecherokee 06-26-2008 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet (Post 38486)
Um, is this a steering rack we are talking about or an axle joint because there should not be grease packed in a steering rack boot. Any fluid leaking from there would mean the rack is leaking power steering fluid.

I concur there shouldn't be that much crap in there.. As you are only putting like 35 miles on it Just get some Zip Ties and suck the boot down to the shaft - Check that they don't interfier with your steering, You don't want to wait for it to start clicking.. that means that more is broken than already is :(

MechEngVT 06-26-2008 10:35 AM

The boot is there to keep dust/dirt/grime out of the inner tie rod end. Those joints are rather intolerant of gunk and will wear out quickly when dirty. Plus there IS grease there to keep the joint from rusting, as surface rust in the joint is the same as gunk and will wear it out. A worn tie rod end puts slop in the steering and will be difficult to align and won't hold an alignment.

Clamping the boot down will possibly prevent the rack from traveling to full lock in one or both directions without ripping the boot further, so it's mostly a waste of time.

Taking the inner tie rod end off the rack (or tie rod if it's easier) and replacing the boot isn't too difficult. Might be a good time to replace the tie rod end anyway. Measuring its setting with calipers will greatly assist you in putting it back together close enough to drive but a wheel alignment should still be done.

I know these aren't CV boots, but CV boots are the same way. The joints wear out very quickly when in contact with water/dirt. They're very hard to disassemble (they're an interference fit assembly you have to smack *just* right to take apart) and the grease is obnoxiously sticky yet you have to fully clean the contaminated grease to reboot a shaft. You're most likely better off replacing the whole shaft since it's fewer labor hours than rebooting and you have a new shaft/joints/boots.

ttoyoda 06-26-2008 11:28 AM

I'll chime in again on the side of the "fix it correctly" people.

Right now you are facing a job that is $13 in parts and an hour of work.

When (not if) the steering rack gets buggered up, you will be facing a job that is $600 in parts and you may have to pull the engine out to get to the steering rack, I would in my cars. And that "clicking" only happens in CV joints, not the steering rack afaik.

I know you are tempted by the "simplicity" of some improvised "fix". Every time I have done that it has come back to bite me in the backside. Maybe you will be luckier. Or you will sell the car before it becomes a "problem".

Cd 06-27-2008 12:33 AM

If I am going to have my cars suspension worked on, I might as well just have the car lowered.
How much would something like that cost me ?
I called around and it looks as though wit the parts, labor and an alignment , it would run at least $ 600.
I know I could maybe go cheaper by cutting corners, but I'd want to do it right. I have seen a few cars lowered that have the wheels all kicked out.
That has got to be bad for fuel economy !

I've wanted to lower the car for almost a decade now, but ... six hundred dollars is a hell of a lot of money to pay for something that is absolutely trivial.

ttoyoda 06-27-2008 08:59 AM

Quote:

I have seen a few cars lowered that have the wheels all kicked out.

That is because they did not put in cambolts to attach the strut to the spindle.

Quote:

If I am going to have my cars suspension worked on, I might as well just have the car lowered.
Fixing the boots is an order and a half of magnitude less work than lowering the car.

MechEngVT 06-27-2008 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttoyoda (Post 38886)
Fixing the boots is an order and a half of magnitude less work than lowering the car.

Not to mention that the two projects in no way intersect. If you needed to replace your struts and wanted to lower it, then it would make sense to combine projects.

ttoyoda 06-27-2008 05:44 PM

Quote:

Not to mention that the two projects in no way intersect. If you needed to replace your struts and wanted to lower it, then it would make sense to combine projects.
Now now, that is not *quite* true. You would in both cases have to remove the wheel, AND the tie rod end cotter pin. AND the tie rod end castle nut, AND you would have to get the tie rod end from the spindle. So the over lap time on the two jobs is a good 2 and a half minutes, if you take no more than 4 *small* sips of beer during the procedure :D:p:D:):p
(yes I am just pulling your leg. The jobs do not intersect.)

.Cd, $600 buys a LOT of tools these days. The tools will be with you till you die. If you invest in tools, you can do the boots and lower your car for less money.
Post some big pics and we will mark them up and we can all chip in and tell you what to do to fix it.

Quote:

I've wanted to lower the car for almost a decade now, but ... six hundred dollars is a hell of a lot of money to pay for something that is absolutely trivial.
OK I am a little confused now, unless you are pulling our leg. I am not ragging on you here, :Dbut if you *really* think lowering the car is trivial, (while I think it is not), how come you have not fixed the boots already, while posting an instructable on the procedure? :D Cause the boot, while not totally trivial, has only one hard part, and that is loosening the locknut on the tie rod end adjuster.

Or maybe you are using the word trivial the way I use it at work: When there is something that involves stuff I don't quite understand, and don't want to deal with, I tell people it is "trivial" for them to do so they don't bother me with it anymore. :D

Cd 06-29-2008 01:26 AM

Trivial a: of little worth or importance <a trivial purchase

( I'm practically not even using the car these days, yet I day dream of lowering the car.)

It was just a brain fart.
I figured that if I have to get a wheel alignment, I might as well combine the two jobs.

$ 600 dollars is more than half my monthly salary. There is no way that I can afford that. Like I said BRAIN FART. I just day dream a lot.

thebrad 06-29-2008 07:48 PM

You should be able to lower your car on your own with some basic hand tools.
The few specialized tools required (spring compressors) are available from rent for places like Autozone for a deposit that is returned with the item.

Cd 06-29-2008 09:06 PM

I live in apartment complex which forbids any work on cars.
I envy those of you with a garage.

ttoyoda 06-29-2008 09:20 PM

Quote:

I live in apartment complex which forbids any work on cars.
I envy those of you with a garage.
That really stinks. My condolences. Having to hire out all your car work is like a hidden but added cost of living there.

I never understood why some apts have such a bug up their *** about people wanting to do things for themselves. "Look Ralph, someone is working on their car!!! The Horror! THE HORROR!!! Where's my little blue pills!" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I always made sure to rent in a cut-up house without these kind of rules.

roflwaffle 06-29-2008 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttoyoda (Post 38886)
That is because they did not put in cambolts to attach the strut to the spindle.

Depends. Dropping the car too much can result in squashed CVs that'll die in weeks/months so to get a smidge more room some will run crazy camber.

Vince-HX 06-29-2008 11:19 PM

my tie rod boots look the same way and have for like 30,000 miles, lol


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