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-   -   Daox's 2004 Toyota Prius Build Thread (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/daoxs-2004-toyota-prius-build-thread-9106.html)

Daox 07-04-2009 03:39 PM

Daox's 2004 Toyota Prius Build Thread
 
Time to start a new thread for the new car. I'm really psyched to get started with this car to see what it can really do with a bit of tweaking. But first, lets see some pics!


http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius001.jpg



http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius002.jpg



http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius003.jpg



Alright, the first mod is a bit of a teaser, but it is the first step. In case you can't read it, that says 50.

http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius004.jpg

MetroMPG 07-04-2009 03:45 PM

What kind of tires is it wearing?

Daox 07-04-2009 03:49 PM

Its got brand new tires on it (semi-unfortunate since I didn't get to choose them). They are Uniroyal Tiger Paws. I have no idea, but it has a semi-aggressive tread pattern on it, so RR is probably taking a hit, but I can't say that with certainty.

They're 44 max psi sidewall if anyone is wondering.

SVOboy 07-04-2009 10:28 PM

Boattail!!!!!

RobertSmalls 07-05-2009 08:13 AM

She's real pretty. Subscribed.

Daox 07-05-2009 05:47 PM

Day two, mod #2. :D

I took the Prius to the EV build day in Milwaukee. The guys had a lot of questions about it. I also wanted to install and EV mode switch since its a zero cost mod and will come in handy from time to time. Anyway, it was a quick an easy install. All you need to do is put a momentary switch inline with a pin on the EV ECU and ground the other end. It took all of ~30 minutes to do. I have pics on Ben's camera, so when I get them, they'll be posted.

alohaspirit 07-05-2009 08:08 PM

that looks awesome!
(i always wish i could afford one of those)


i figured youll do this soon

but probably much cheaper

Toyota Prius - Wheel Skirts - Toyota Prius Wheel Skirts by Hybrid Effects 1 pair (Shipping Included)



EDIT: or these
http://www.vfaq.net/mods/Hubcaps.html
(this should be a sticky somewhere)

MetroMPG 07-05-2009 10:34 PM

Wow - 2 days, 2 mods. I expect no less for the rest of the month.

orange4boy 07-06-2009 01:54 AM

OOOOOH! (covet, covet, covet)

Nice ride.

Quote:

Toyota Prius - Wheel Skirts
I'm voting for wheel skirts too.

Countdown to avatar change...

Matt Herring 07-06-2009 06:54 AM

Subscribed...can't wait to see what you come up with for mods so I can ride your coat tail (or should I say boat tail)!!! Best of luck bro...sweet buggy you got there!

Daox 07-06-2009 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alohaspirit
i figured youll do this soon

but probably much cheaper

Toyota Prius - Wheel Skirts - Toyota Prius Wheel Skirts by Hybrid Effects 1 pair (Shipping Included)



EDIT: or these
2004 Prius Custom Hubcaps
(this should be a sticky somewhere)

Yeah, I'm definitely not sinking $375 into wheel skirts. As pretty as they are, there is no way that would ever be worth it. The wheel covers are a definite possibility. But, I'm still thinking about mods and prioritizing what will be done first. I'll probably focus on aeromods since thats kind of where the Prius lacks a bit, and I do do a lot of highway driving. But, I also want to get some additional instrumentation too. Of course everyone at the EV build wants me to go PHEV which would be awesome, but 20 batteries = $$$. If anyone has any other suggestions feel free. I know a bit about the Prius, but not a ton.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 113932)
Wow - 2 days, 2 mods. I expect no less for the rest of the month.

Haha, don't be disappointed when that doesn't happen.



Quote:

Originally Posted by orange4boy (Post 113956)
Countdown to avatar change...

Well, the Prius is really more of the wife's car. She had the Matrix and this is replacing it. The Paseo is mine. I might do a cool split avatar like Darin though.

SVOboy 07-06-2009 07:43 AM

Get an undertray laser cut out of aluminum that bolts up nice and clean. :)

Nevyn 07-06-2009 03:02 PM

What version of the Tiger Paw? I know at least *some* of them are pretty low.

0.00683 Michelin TIGER PAW AWP P225/60R16

Low-rolling resistance tires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Daox 07-06-2009 07:13 PM

Good point Nevyn. I just checked and they are Tiger Paw AS65s. According to a few google searches they are a 65,000 mile tire which is nice, but they seem to be designed a bit more for handling than rolling resistance.

Daox 07-06-2009 07:34 PM

Yay, I got pics from Ben of the EV switch install. Also, big thanks to efusco for writing up the instructions! His full instructions can be seen here:

http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf

The first thing I actually had to do was take apart the lower half of the steering column trim. In there, the headlight/foglight control stalk connector has a bunch of pins in it that have no wires going to them. I needed to pull one of the metal connectors out of it to use in the EV ECU plug since it doesn't have any connectors in the empty spots.

(took this image from the PDF instructions)
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius011.jpg


The next step was to take apart the the panels to get at the EV ecu. This is about as easy as it gets, no tools involved, just pull stuff. Its almost impossible to see in this picture, but there are three ECUs stacked next to each other! There are wires eeeeeeeeeverywhere.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius005.jpg



Here, we got the connector out that we need to get at. The white piece on the connector pops up a little bit and allows you to put the connector I got out of the steering column into the plug.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius006.jpg



The next step is to crimp a new wire to the connector and slide it back into the marked spot on the ECU plug. Very easy. (image taken from PDF again)
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius012.jpg



Here, I'm already starting to reassemble it. The connector is plugged back into the EV ECU. The white/red wire is the one I just connected to a blank hole in the connector.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius007.jpg

http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius008.jpg



On the white wire, I crimped a ring connector to go to the ground. I simply took out an ECU bolt and put this under it.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius009.jpg



This is a momentary switch I had laying around. This connects the white and white/red wire and grounds the pin on the EV ECU to put you into EV mode. For final mounting I'll probably find another switch. Its hard to find a flat surface to mount something like that. Everything is so curvy it will never mount flush! So, for now its sitting in my favorite spot for switches... the glove box. :) Yay for zero cost mods.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius010.jpg

orange4boy 07-06-2009 07:49 PM

Does the Prius have an alternator? If it does are you going to do the disable? Or does it use the synergy drive to generate power for the electrical system?

I understand there is a lead acid battery somewhere in there which has an unusually short life. Probably not getting fully charged by the only intermittently on engine.

Daox 07-06-2009 07:55 PM

No alternator. The high voltage pack feeds a dc to dc converter to keep the 12v auxiliary battery charged. I hear they have problems here and there too. I'm looking up a bit more on that to see if I can't do something about it.

alohaspirit 07-06-2009 07:59 PM

Thats cool stuff.

How do you intend to fully utilize the EV button?

Daox 07-06-2009 08:04 PM

To be honest, its really not that useful. I did take it for a spin just to make sure it worked and I just ran around the block and drained the hybrid pack enough to kick the gas engine back on. It is nice for moving the car around in a parking lot, or in a driveway when you don't want to fire up the engine. The max range you can go is about 2 miles and then you pay the price with the gas engine since that and braking is the only way to charge the pack back up.

alohaspirit 07-06-2009 08:15 PM

yeah, its a pretty nifty mod

tho i dont know if i wouldve chose the switch or the headlight flasher

NeilBlanchard 07-06-2009 09:48 PM

Hi,

So, when you're stuck in traffic, you can force it to stay in EV mode? When the ICE comes on to charge the traction battery, does it run at a constant RPM?

Daox 07-06-2009 09:57 PM

When I'm stuck in traffic I could force it to stay in EV mode with the switch. I would have to come to a stop because you can only enable EV mode when stopped. Also, when you are in traffic your engine is likely already warmed up, and with a light foot you can keep it in ev mode without the switch fairly easily. The switch is more useful when you're doing a cold start and don't want the ICE on. Thinking ahead, if I added additional capacity to the pack via another pack in parallel (or make them switched), I could run much farther on EV mode and plug into a charger to make a PHEV.

When the engine kicks back in it does not stay at a constant rpm. Once it is on, it is the main form of propulsion in addition to powering the motor/generator to charge the pack back up.

I just programmed in some handy x-gauge features on the scangauge so I can monitor pack voltage and current draw/regen amps. This should prove very interesting on the trip to work tomorrow.

Matt Herring 07-06-2009 10:07 PM

Usually in heavy traffic you can stay in EV mode without the aid of an EV button. This can be done as long as the car is up to temp (above 160 degrees) and SOC is above 3 bars. If you are in heavy traffic crawling along as long as you don't cram the go pedal and lightly accelerate you can keep it in EV mode. I like to keep about a 2 car distance in heavy traffic so when I see taillights go out I can continue my crawl and be up to speed when the car in front of me begins to move or have enough time to slowly brake without stopping. This gets me moving but also gives me a head start on the car behind me so I don't hold up traffic and can accelerate at my own pace instead of the cars in front of me.

The EV switch is an advantage but not a huge one that will drastically alter FE. It's more of a safety net to preserve FE when the ICE would otherwise steal a little FE from you. EV switch is still a positive addition though.

When the ICE is forced to come on to charge the battery rmp usually runs in the 1200-1300 range. Using the go pedal with a low SOC you will commonly see rpm's rev alot. My normal throttle position when the battery is charged up keeps rpm in the 1700 range at 45 mph. With SOC low the same throttle position might run at 2000 rmp and rev to 2400 if I'm not careful.

Daox 07-06-2009 10:10 PM

I got the Prius up on ramps tonight to take a look at the underbody. There honestly doesn't look like there is a ton of work that can be done here. The bottom side is already very flat. The only area that could use covering up is directly under the engine bay and along the exhaust tunnel.

I didn't get a good look at the very rear end of the car yet, so I'll check that out later.

http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius013.jpg

bennelson 07-07-2009 02:42 PM

Here's a video of the first test drive after installing the EV switch.

I was surprised at how briefly the car can drive on electric only.
It seems that the EV only switch would work best with a Plug-In Hybrid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdfTkRf72FA

Daox 07-07-2009 02:48 PM

I can't see the video at work. However, I will comment that the pack wasn't fully charged when I parked the car so that hurt distance. The other thing was, and I noticed this after the fact, but the AC was on and that runs off the pack too. I was also trying to see how fast of acceleration you could get in EV mode. :)

Thanks for taking and posting up the video Ben.

MetroMPG 07-07-2009 03:11 PM

Interesting vid. Learning some things about the Prius 2 that I didn't know.

And I heartily second the call for a Prius EV mode vs. Electro Metro drag race!

Matt Herring 07-07-2009 05:54 PM

Interesting video...had never seen the EV switch in use before...had only read about it from people that had it installed.

I'm sure you're getting used to the new EV switch and finding what situations it works best in. From what I have read it's best applications are in stop and go traffic when you might have a hard time keeping it in EV at low speeds (and need more power) and situations when ICE would rob you of FE like warmup phases.

The EV switch is tricky to balance the allure of getting gas free travel vs. running the battery too low and forcing ICE to run to recharge the battery. I would guess it is best to use just before a downhill so the regen will charge the battery back for you and in stop and go when a feather foot is hard to maintain while staying in the flow of traffic.

Best of luck with the EV switch...it's cool...nice work bro!

alohaspirit 07-07-2009 06:32 PM

that was a pretty good video

a lot of my questions were answered

i am wondering how is this different from normal driving w/o the ev button

cant you keep it in EV mode with slow driving or will the engine just kick in at a much lower speed?

Daox 07-07-2009 06:35 PM

I actually do have one function for the EV switch so far. I have a relatively long driveway and I don't like to drive real fast on it (around 10 mph) since we recently put down new gravel. So, in the morning I use it to creep out of the driveway. Once I'm on the road and can get up to speed I kick it back into hybrid mode so the gas engine can warm up.

Thankfully, I don't hit too much stop and go. I'll let you know how it works if I do hit some though.

Daox 07-07-2009 06:40 PM

When you first power up the car, the engine automatically kicks in for about a minute to warm up the CAT. This is unavoidable unless you have the EV switch. This is where the switch can come in handy. Right when I took that first corner, I floored it. Flooring it kicks in the ICE. Now it wants to warm up for that unavoidable 1 minute. I had to power it down to reset things so I could get it back in EV mode and avoid the 1 minute. If I had waited for the 1 minute to lapse, I could have just stopped (you must stop to engage EV mode) and pressed the button to go into EV mode.

From my little amount of driving around so far, its not that hard to keep it in EV mode once it is warmed up really. If the engine does kick in, all you have to do is let off the gas pedal and it will kill it.

alohaspirit 07-07-2009 06:49 PM

thats pretty awesome. you must be having a ton of fun right now.


i would love to get one
(used cost around 11k for me, which i cant justify as my crx cost me 1k)
charge it up and down my hill, then EV everywhere i go


wheel covers next?

Daox 07-07-2009 06:55 PM

I'll probably be looking into grill blocking next. Close behind that would be a belly pan.

Daox 07-07-2009 09:07 PM

The more I dig into this car, the more optimization I see. Its great to see what they've done with it.

Tonight I was digging around the front grill looking at how I'll be blocking up the front and eventually doing a belly pan. The first thing I noticed is they already did a mod I did to the Paseo a while back. They have foam stuffed around the radiator to force more air through it instead of around it!

The black plastic (top) is the radiator fan shroud, the grey bottom is the lower frame member.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius014.jpg



Here is a shot on the left side of the radiator. There appear to be no gaps that haven't been plugged.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius015.jpg



So, as I dug a bit farther, I find out they did the mod I wanted to do on the Paseo, but was a bit too complex. They sealed the area between the grill inlet/bumper cover and radiator to flow air only through the radiator! Good stuff. Left side is the radiator, right side is the lower grill.
http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius016.jpg



At the same time, it kind of makes me angry that they don't do this to conventional vehicles. This is by no means a hybrid specific modification...

alohaspirit 07-07-2009 09:15 PM

looks like they went all out

too bad it didnt come with factory wheel skirts


i think one of the reasons why they dont do stuff comes from the
pain of removing small panels/blocks to replace/service something

Matt Herring 07-07-2009 09:15 PM

More fodder for the "Great FE isn't magic" crowd. I haven't dug into my Prius as much as you have been doing but I'm not surprised to see the attention to detail by Toyota. I think you'll find more examples of top-notch design in there as you work your way around the car.

alohaspirit 07-08-2009 12:39 PM

hmmm

does it make that constant chime throughout your ev mode?

using the ev mode will probably run your battery down more
ive heard they need to be replaced after about 100k miles at around 4-5k


edit:
i almost forgot
coasting down a hill doing around 40-60
the gas engine will always be on huh?

Daox 07-08-2009 12:50 PM

I'll have to watch the video again, I don't remember a constant chime except for when I'm in reverse. That happens no matter if you are in electric or hybrid mode.

Using EV mode doesn't discharge the battery any more than normal driving will. The computer management system for the Prius is incredibly strict. This strictness is what gives the Prius such incredible battery pack life (less then half a percent have been replaced last I read). One guy on CMPG ran his 1st gen Prius to 350k miles before he got t-boned and the car was totaled. He was still using the original pack. They definitely do not need to be replaced @ 100k miles. The warranty on them is for 100k miles.

alohaspirit 07-08-2009 01:30 PM

ah ha


what about the downhill coast?

Matt Herring 07-08-2009 01:34 PM

At 41 mph the ICE kicks...but...

A little trick you can do on a downhill coast is to pop it into neutral at 40 mph and ride the coast down...

This accomplishes two things...

1. SGII reports max mpg by going from EV mode into neutral coast before 41 mpg.
2. Neutral coast gives you max roll on the downhill

If you go from EV mode to ICE to neutral coast SGII will report around 200 mpg. So going from EV mode to neutral before 41 mpg gives you max mpg and max roll on the downhill.

Note: Neutral coast is not recommended beyond 60 mph as the engine could potentially overspin. In heavy downhill cases brakes must be used while in neutral coast to avoid approaching the danger zone for speed on neutral coast.


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