Dark Day... selling the Altima
 

Well, gas hit $1.399/liter here in Saskatchewan... my last fill was $70.00 and that was at $1.349... so I have decided to sell my 1998 Altima. I was really excited to be getting the 30-33 mpg over the past few months but I can no longer afford to lose out on additional mpg's.

I am actively looking for a Jetta or Golf TDI... hopefully I can sell my Altima for around the same I will pay for the used VW. 80% of my driving is highway and I need something for a family with trunk space. My projected budget is >$10000 CDN, any other suggestions. I cannot understand how Gas Companies that posted a 4-8 billion profit for their 1st quarter can continue to price gouge.

WHEN WILL IT END???

Just make sure to run the numbers. The VWs do get great mileage, but with diesel costing more atm its hard to come out ahead financially. Let us know what you find out.

What kind of mileage you looking to get. Run the numbers low 30's with room for improvement is pretty good. You can buy a lot of gas for 10 grand. At least for now.

Alright I have been thinking about this all night and this is what I got:

I am looking for a price swap. With the higher prices of cars here in Canada I figure I can get $7500-8000 for my Altima (98, only 117,000km, flawless mech and some minor body issues consistent with the year of the car). So if I can acquire the TDI for the same price (I would be paying cash, no financing needed), that takes us to fuel.

Currently on my Alt I am getting 31-33 mpg with 80/20 highway to city driving. That puts me here:

Km Driven: 700
Liters of fuel: 54
Price of gas: $1.399

TOTAL PRICE PER FILL: $75.55

Based on estimates with the TDI:

KM driven: 1000
Liters of fuel: 50
Price of diesel: $1.429

TOTAL PRICE PER FILL: $71.45

Thoughts??? I also found this data as well, from the EPA site, and keep in mind these are estimates:

Annual Fuel Cost*

Altima - $2636

Jetta - $1850

You should expect the diesel/gas spread to increase over the winter months.

True enough... I guess I really need to determine if the extra 300-400 km would be worth the difference.

I am also weighing additional aero mods to increase the Alt's mpg. I am currently pricing lowering the car 2-3" and adding front grill blocks as well as full moon hub caps.

Are those US or Imperial miles per gallon figures? (So your altima gets about 13 - 14k/l?) My Yaris cost me around 11500 brand new, and takes me 450 miles on 10 gallons US if I drive correctly. That should be 724 kilometers on 38 liters, for about 19.1 k/l. Your altima costs $9.71 per 100 kilometers, the Yaris would cost $7.15, the TDI would cost $7.10. Depending on your driving and the continued cost of fuel, I'm not sure the TDI would be your best option, since you might be able to get a Yaris that is under warranty (or some other gasoline powered car with like mileage)

All my figures are in Km... here are conversions (Gas seems so much cheaper in the USA... I used Minot gas prices as that is my closest US destination):

Altima

Miles Driven: 435
Gallons of fuel: 14.3
Price of gas: $4.14/gallon

TOTAL PRICE PER FILL: $59.20

Based on estimates with the TDI:

Miles driven: 621.4
Gallons of fuel: 13.2
Price of diesel: $4.69

TOTAL PRICE PER FILL: $61.91

Again I believe there is some variance due to the pricing difference between US and CDN gas/diesel prices. In CDN mileage as well we calculate l/100km not straight Liters per KM as mpg.

I am also looking at the 00-02 Corolla, as it seems to hit near 40 mpg, and would be in the price range I am looking at.

If you really want to determine the correct decision to make based solely on the financial numbers, you will need to determine the TCO, total cost of ownership, and a reasonable period in time common to both cars. When I recently went about the process myself, I used a basis of 5 years, a three year loan period, two years of ownership, and then another reevaluation (keep the car, replace it, etc.). You will need to determine average life span of the vehicles involved, average fuel consumption for your typical annual usage, insurance costs, regular maintenance costs, the cost of wearables/consumables, registration fees, taxes, future costs of fuel, NPV of the money you would be able to save ($1 now might be worth $10 later), and value at the end of the period to account for depreciation. Total that up for any car you are considering to see which is the best deal. Don't forget there may be additional fees on the new(er) car due to registration fees, sale fees, etc. and there will be interest if you finance anything. For me, the spreadsheet was huge when I was done, and it wouldn't be applicable to anyone else. An interesting note: For me, via this method I was able to determine that a Prius would cost me more than a Yaris in the long run despite fuel efficiency differences. Don't forget to run one to see what would happen if you instead boosted the economy of your current car via mods, and include the cost of those mods.

Category 98 Altima 00 Jetta TDI 01 Corolla
Plates $890.00 $984.00 $974.00
Annual Fuel $3544.00 $2241.00 $2710.00

This seems to speak volumes thus far. I did this on the EPA site and customized the fuel consumption based on driving 28000 km/year, based on 80/20 highway to city. This is also based on current gas prices here in Sask.

I am still working on the other costs...

Since you do so much highway you could do some aero mods. Grill block, belly pan (this would cost next to nothing) and probably get another 5 mpg out of the altima. From the garage it looks like all you done is put more air in the tires.

More mess to throw in to the equation. :)

I also think it would be easier to see it in cost per mile or KM instead of tank.

This is my dilemma, I have a plan for the grill block, belly pan, and full moon wheel covers. I am just not sure if it is worth it, I could swap to a 99-01 Corolla and get 40-45 without mods and go from there, not being out any more $$$.

I am going to be doing some test driving tomorrow and Friday on the TDI's and Corolla's, just have to fight the urge to impulse buy.

Here's the way I see it if you don't have to go into debt(now's not the time) and can get a good car that cheaper to operate and greener go for it.

Does the VW use the same oil and filters you buy for a gas car? Or do you need special supplies? Will they cost more and offset your savings in fuel? One of my neighbors just sold his Dodge Cummins and replaced it with a year older Hemi. Almost equal mileage, but the cost of an oil change is about a thrid of that for the diesel. Also, replacement engine items (if needed) are a lot cheaper for the Hemi than the Cummins. Thats part of the total cost of ownership...

@jjw

same for me the Prius is a good 10k more than a Yaris, in fact we got two for about the same price as a Prius :)

This is what I found over at TDI Forum:

Mobil Delvac 1 5w40, Shell Rotella Synthetic 5w40 or 0w40, PetroCanada Duron Synthetic 5w40 (can be special ordered at any PetroCanada OilChangers location in Canada), Castrol Syntec 5w40 European-car formulation, and quite a few others.

Couldn't find too much else on them...

You could always change your own oil too, $20 vs $50. Maybe its an Ontario thing but you can also drop off your used oil at any garage, they can charge you the disposal fee but none have bothered to charge me yet. I asked the local canadian tire where they would like me to put it and I drop it off whenever.
I too am considering a VW diesel as a next car, but odds are it will cost more to maintain than your altima, no one I know that had a VW bought another right after. I am almost leaning towards the older simpler ones as they cost less to start with and don't have so many expensive parts to break, look up how often the TDI injector pumps fail, it might make the $15 per tank extra with altima seem like a great deal!
Do your homework so you know what your getting into and you should be fine.
Ian

How about putting some money into the Alti that you know who has maintained (yourself) and what condition it is in. 5-speed swap? From what I read, the KA24DE engine is solid and can run for miles and miles.

I'm not too fond of VeeDubs, no offense to anyone here. I've just always heard bad stuff about them, except for a friend who has an early late 80s early 90s Diesel Jetta and finds it really easy to work on and reliable for the most part (for a couple hundred dollar car anyways.) But if you do find a nice Carolla in your price range, it would be a different story. My dad has a Camry with 240k miles and it is still going strong.

Good luck on whatever you decide on and keep us updated.

After running the numbers again I have decided to hang on to the Alti for now.

I am going to do the belly pan and grill block as soon as I get a decent weekend to do the work. Also planned would be a suspension drop (1.5-2") along with full moon wheel covers and new tires.

I got 32.68 on my last tank, if I can start getting 35-38 consistently with the aero mods I think I will be fine. My big concern is maintenance costs. My Alti is mechanically flawless and only has 117,000km, I figure I can drive it to at least 250,000 - 300,000 km with little to no maintenance costs. The other issue is most of the TDI's is my price range are miled out at 200 - 250,000 km.

I'd think you should be able to beat my beater for mileage, maybe my hills are to much of an advantage.... 2km engine off coasts....:D and many many engine on coasts.
See what your auto does from neutral to Drive at 90km/h. I rev match and if I do it right, no lurching, even just going to drive at an idle doesn't produce any terrible clunking. I keep on meaning to stop at the local tranny repair place and see what they say about it. They would know exactly what's happening in there.
Keep at it, don't let my crappy neon beat you!
Ian

TDI Oil chages are CHEAP
Example
Blue Rotella T Oil Walmart $16/ gallon + Wix filter (6$) Capacity is 5 qts. So $4 a quart for oil *5 Qts + $6 = $26 oil change. Recommended OCI is 10,000 miles many do 20k. That is cheaper than MOST gassers.

TDI parts are cheap (ish) if you are willing to do the research and wrench yourself they are prety darn cheap cars to own.


Also bear in mind that 98% of the people who had the injection pumps replaced for$2000 simply had a mechanic with no knowledge.

Timing belt cost are similar to a gasser.

No spark plugs/ wires.

Nozzles good till ~200,000 miles

But do bear in mind that they are quirky. small electrical issues/ squeaks can drive you nuts.

Most of all DON'T BRING IT TO THE DEALER $150 oil changes are the norm and many recommend 3,000 mile OCI; about 50% of the time they run the wrong oil. It is bad. If you can find a tdi club "guru" around you can save $; or wrench yourself (not hard once you "understand" german engineering).

My 2 cents.

Also if you are really serious about getting a more efficient car, a 2001 5spd echo sedan is hard to beat. A nice grey one with black bumpers, with no AC if you can handle it, the uglier the better! $5000-6000, and will last for 10 more years.
You should come out ahead on money and atleast match a TDI in mileage and beat it in cost of a fill up with the cheaper gas vs diesel.
Granted its not a Jetta in terms of ride and handling, but its not a Jetta when it comes to maintenance or problems either. Also it fits 6 footers in the back seat without to much complaining.
One of my friends at work has a 180km total commute and ended up with an echo instead of a TDI, at the time a 2-4 yr old TDI with 150000km cost far more than a new echo...
Ian

After running all the numbers and doing some test drives on Corolla's (No Echo's for Sale in Sask right now) I have decided to drive my Alti until it is dead. Right now it is mechanically flawless which means low maintenance costs. The main issue with a TDI right now is everything is my price range has 200,000-250,000 and I do want to get stuck with a load of bills for repairs or maintenance.

I added a temp upper and lower grill block and got 35 mpg on a 165 km trip to Regina last night.

My water temp was up 10 or so degree's but hopefully with that and a belly pan and the lowered car (hoping to change springs and strums this summer) I can get 36-38.

The other issue is monetary, as we are planning to buy a house next spring and I should be debt free if I keep the Alti... can't complain with that

Well there you go, you've almost beat my heap already. I did get 5.1L/100km last night going home but then I was late for work this morning and got 6.7L/100km...
Looks like I've got start thinking about implementing some mods soon...:thumbup:
Neon Powa!

Agreed; TDI Purchase prices are Very Very high. You have to "want" one to justify the initial cost. 200~250 k

Thanks for the kind words. I am hoping with a belly pan, grill block, full moon hubcaps and possibly a rear deck lid spoiler I can hit the ultimate goal of 40 mpg.

Plus i enjoy a world where I do not have to make a car payment.

Swap in a manual gearbox for huge savings! (this is what I am doing in my Bluebird (Altima))

Or, if you have spare cash, get a manual SR20DET swap, and you will have economy and performance :)

I will look into the manual swap as well, just got 33.9 mpg on my last tank with the grill block in. Things are looking better!!