David's 1996 Civic LX EV
 

Ok, so I might as well start my own EV thread! I have a 1996 Civic LX that I converted to an EV this past year.

Website: Civic Electric Car Conversion

And some specs:
1996 Honda Civic LX
4 Speed Automatic Transmission
ADC K99-4007 6.7" Motor
96 Volts
Eight Walmart Everstart MAXX29 12 volt 125 Ah, 210 minute reserve
Kelly KDH09401 96 Volt 400 AMP controller
PakTrakr battery monitor, gauge

The EV is legal, past inspection this month, but it is not complete. I still have to finish building an insulated battery box, install a blower cooler for the motor and completely rebuild the front compartment. I need a stronger motor mount, splash shield and a solid control tray.

I don't have any decent EV-in-action videos yet, but hopefully they will happen soon.

Very nice build. I was browsing your blog the other day. Will probably continue reading it today.

Have you calculated the losses from using the automatic transmission vs a manual?

Yes I did. Assuming a manual transmission is 91% efficient, I found my Automatic Transmission to be 87% efficient. And if I manage to override the Locking Torque Converter to activate in 2nd gear, it would be 89% efficient.

I am working on a way to adjust the shift points on the transmission. Right now I have been placing the car in Drive and when it hits 2nd gear, I shift to D2 and I stay there from 11 to 40 MPH. I am working on changing the shift points from 1700 RPMs to 4500 RPMs.

AWRIGHT!!! :D

Good to see the thread started, SGC! Thanks for adding to the knowledge we are all trying to glean from each other.

I went over to your website, too. I've been there at some time in the past: I think when Ben was trying to come up with a vacuum pump for his car. I remember seeing some of the older stuff.

All of this is great to know, since (not a dream) some day I will be doing a car of my own. ;)

If you want to change the shift points in your Honda-matic (yeah, it's stupid, I know) transmission, you can just shift it manually. It won't hurt the transmission at all, especially now that you're effectively putting less power to the transmission than the original motor was.

You can also play with the transmission itself to create manual valve body, if you wanted to. Also, you can change the stall speed of the torque convertor, but that will affect your TC lockup as well. *You won't have it anymore*.

I'm not sure if you can modify the signals to or from the TCU to change the actual shift points of the transmission, but you can usually just change the sizing of the oil passages in the valve body so that the fluid doesn't build as much pressure as fast, which means that it won't shift at the same RPM. (Shifting is normally controlled by fluid pressure.)

How did you handle all the extra weight? Did you put any heavier springs in the rear? I've found it doesn't take much weight to get the back end sagging - it's built to be a light car.

Any kind of mechanical shifting (besides the shifter, which I do, force it into 2nd) is out of the question because of the electronically controlled tranny. I thought of changing valves, but after going through the factory guide, that was out of the question.

BUT I do have a plan. At this point the only sensor the PCM gets is the VSS, so my idea is to skew it. I have a PIC processor that I am programming to read the VSS and then spit half the pulses (or less) to the PCM and it will think I am driving slower than I really am. Then it will stay in gear longer, and I won't have to do anything but shove it into D and drive off.

I am looking for beefier rear springs, but haven't found any yet that won't break the bank. I have 520 lbs of batteries in the trunk, and yes it is low. All the springs I have found are for lowering the suspension, it's got to be an EV conspiracy. ;)

Get a set of adjustable coilovers from eBay. The springs are generic cuts, rated just past the OEM rating for spring rates, and you can adjust them up so that even though they're shorter, they will be at standard ride height. They're also less than $60 and the fronts will fit the rears if they wear out.

Ooooh, I like it! When you get it figured out, give us a hint, so that the slushbox guys can be cool too! :cool:

Do the OEM signals split for the speedomoter, or will you have to re-adjust the signal somehow to know how fast you're going???

The OEM signal does split. It actually goes to three places, one to the Speedometer, one to the Odometer and the last to the PCM. So all I have to do is fool the signal (5v Pulses) to the PCM. And all that is software on the PIC controller!

So those will work? I didn't know if they would cause trouble with my struts, or even be able to cope with the weight.

Another thing comes to mind about the springs: Preload the stock springs

This will probably actually make your car ride slightly higher than OEM (if you add enough spacers) but the idea is to put (basically) a washer between the upper spring seat and the top of the spring, so that the weight of the vehicle preloads the spring rather than putting it to normal installed height.

Since the spring gains tension as it compresses (until just before it's stacked coil) having it slightly compressed at normal ride height will actually make for a slightly stiffer spring, and since the shocks bottom out before the springs reach stacked coil, you'll have the same amount of travel, meaning that you get a stiffer spring with an OEM ride height, and it only costs as much as the spacers cost to be milled. (I have a set of blue aluminum ones for 96-00 Civics, I"ll take a pic of them next time I go to the storage shed to show you what they are.)

Mine actually came in a cheap eBay set of coilovers, they're about 6mm thick (6mm of pre-tension on stock springs.) They're actually there so you can get rid of the squishy rubber mounts that go into the upper perches, but if you use them for pre-load discs, you put them in, then trim the rubber ring to fit them.

I was looking at these: eBay Motors: 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 CIVIC COIL OVERS (item 310114649758 end time Feb-08-09 15:07:32 PST)

Do you think they will work?

Those are exactly what I was talking about - if you don't plan on installing them all the way around, use the longer springs on the rears if you can make them fit (if the kit actually has longer springs for the front, many don't.)... they'll already be pre-loaded because the installed height will be different for them, which will make them even slightly stiffer.

I can even walk you through removing the OEM springs without a coil compressor ;) It's really not hard, and it's not even dangerous... plus, you don't need a compressor to put coil overs on either, since you just turn the perches all the way down, put it all back together, then raise the perches after they're installed.

But, yes, those should work... and even if they're not exactly what you need, they'll get you through until you can afford something else, at which point you can sell them to some ricer who thinks it's OK to just slap coils on stock shocks and slam the car on them.

PS - if you can find them cheaper, they're all EXACTLY the same, just diff colors and etc... I used to use the same drop shipper they all use, for about a day, which is how I got my first set. I just ordered them direct, at about $24 a set. (That should tell you about their mark up, and many of them still charge shipping on top of that... which they DON'T have to pay.)

Is there a reason to have a torque converter anymore? The electric motor doesn't stall, and you could probably live without the torque multiplication (especially since your best torque is near 0 RPM.) I could imagine shifts being a bit harsher, but maybe you could zero out the throttle pot during the shift so the transmission isn't under load.

I'm not an AT guru here, but doesn't the torque convertor have something to do with pumping the transmission fluid? Or is that a "driven BY the TC" type of thing?

In this transmission the TC also happens to be the pressure regulator for the ATF pump, so no I can't remove it.

I actually wanted the extra torque multiplication because of the rather small motor I am using. Most people drop this motor in a vehicle that is half the weight of my Civic and get the same results as I am getting, which is really good for me.

The only thing I have found is that my motor gets hot if I drive below 25 MPH, because below that the internal fan doesn't do enough, and am I building a blower cooler to solve that problem.

I have about 50 EV miles on it so far, and finding ways to improve it each time I drive!

A blower will make a huge difference! I have a 60 pound 6.7" motor. It's rated at 24v 103amp for 1 hour, and I'm running it at 72v. The car weighs around 2000-2200 pounds, and the motor would get really hot after about 5 miles of hard driving. Now, with the blower it only gets warm after similar driving. The difference is like night and day.

That is definitely good to know! I am still working on the grill cover to connect the blower to the motor, but right now it's so cold the blower isn't quite needed. My last few trips the motor has been cool, probably due to better EV style driving, but I want this sucker as idiot proof as possible.

Well I just hit the EV jackpot! I got the following parts from a lot:
Advanced DC FB1-4001A Motor
4/0 Gauge Cabling with lugs already installed
Curtis 900R 120 Volt Fuel Gauge
Curtis DC-DC Converter 120 volt input 300 Watts
K&W BC-20 Battery Charger with LB-20 Line booster
Albright Contactors, 200 AMPs and 100 AMPs
Volt/AMP meters and Shunts

And I also got a Motor Coupling and Adapter plate for a Chevy S-10 and the FB1-4001A motor. Check out my site for pics: Civic Electric Car Conversion

My dad and I have decided that the K99-4007 just isn't up to the task on these hills, so I went forth and searched for upgrades. I hit it big this weekend and now have so many EV parts it's rediculous!:thumbup:

Well, that setup should really make due in your Civic! Congrats on the find.

I can't wait to try it! I am going to have to get new plates made up, but my coupler is fine, I just have to order a new $3.99 taper locking piece to fit this larger motor shaft.

I think this motor weighs as much as the original engine, so I am hoping performance will be much better. Hopefully this week I will finish cleaning up the motor and bench test it. I got this chalk stuff that I am supposed to put on the brushes and it will clean the commutator when I test it.

Interesting. I've used an abrasive stick thing on R/C car motors that cleans the commutator. But, you have to turn the motor by hand. This isn't a problem as its only about 1.5" in diameter. I wonder your stuff differs? Please take pictures for us!

Wow - that is quite a jackpot. Mind me asking what it cost? ("YES, I mind!" is an acceptable answer.)

I probably should have mentioned that! It was a grand total of $600 USD!

I have the motor mostly cleaned up, but I have to get the old coupling off the main shaft, and remove the dead RPM sensor from the secondary shaft. There's no rust on the shaft, but they must have used Loctite or something because they are really on there! I just borrowed a puller remover that I hope will work, or else I'll have to bring it to a machine shop.

I am still dismantling the plates and coupling and making sure I keep all the screws/bolts. The charger is next on my list, and it is currently setup as an outboard charger, with a heavy duty cable and connection designed to be place in the gas cap of the car!

I am SO jealous!

That's almost a turn-key EV. Just add batteries.

If you are just looking to get rid of that S10 adapter plate, I know somebody who would love to experiment with it...

I was hoping to get a few bucks for it, but it's being stubborn and not coming off the transmission so we'll see. Unless you know someone who wants a coupling with a tranny stuck to it...

I am developing a plan at the moment on when to install the better parts. I want to have a new suspension system in my hands, and the money gathered to have the machine shop make the new plates. I could do them myself again, but I spent two weeks slaving away at them with a battery powered DeWalt that would go for 20 minutes at a time. With classes started again, I don't have the time to cut them and align them.

Wow, I haven't updated this in quite a bit...

Now the EV has the FB1-4001A motor in it and has become a daily driver! I have my K&W BC-20 installed in the car, everything properly bolted down and now my Dad is using to drive to work until I can get my own plug at school.

I have a few things to do, like new brakes and upgrade the suspension. I also need a more powerful controller for some of these hills around here, so I am going to try to build the OpenSource EV controller once I can get some way of making the large power PCB section.

I also put up for sale my left over EV parts: Electric Vehicle Conversion Parts

great info and good update

will you have a video up anytime soon?

are you still using the original 8 batteries?



whats your range? (such a typical question but i didnt see it really covered)

I do have a video posted on my website in my sig.

Yes, I am still using the original MAXX29 batteries, and I have about 250 miles on them and they are doing just fine. I recently added a little water to them but so far no problems.

As for range, I am estimating a 20 mile to 80% DoD range based upon time to charge after driving, although I have never taken it that far. Right now my Dad is using it to go 14 miles to work, charge and then 14 miles back.

The Kelly does fine until you get to a large hill, then it tanks. The KDH09401 is only rated for 160 AMPs continuous, but I need at least 175 AMPs continuous to maintain speed up those hills. Until I get a new controller built my dad is going to try different routes to find the flattest one available.

I saw that video when I read through your blog.
Just wondering if youll be making any more.


Im finding a trend when it comes to EV owners.
They dont test their full range.


Is this because a battery should never be 100% depleted?

or because they dont want to tow back?

Both. Lead Acid batteries should NEVER be taken past 80% depth of charge, or they could reverse cell voltage and die a very quick, possibly instant death. That, and I don't want to be calling AAA for a tow, it's kind of embarrassing and can give electric cars a bad name if people see your EV being towed away.

And yes, I do plan on making more videos, I just don't know when.

you could go 80% DoD then set up some tow straps to pull you the rest of the way


paying for a tow is crazy (over $100+ these days)

I could set up some sort of towing setup, but I really don't see the need. I do have AAA that will tow me up to 50 miles free. I haven't found the need to push the EV yet for range. I don't want to abuse the MAXX29's so I am charging when ever possible.

It's actually quite amazing what you can do with proper planning. I can do all my around town errands, and even take the EV to visit relatives, charge it up and go home on a full charge. I just need to get a plug at school since it's 17 miles away! I am going to pursue that more this week since I can't have my Dad keep on driving it after spending nearly two years from concept to road legal!

For every hour of charging I get 2 miles of range, which after inefficiencies, equals 250 watt hours per mile for my Civic EV. Not bad for an automatic and all these brutal hills!

i understand


i guess if it were me i would like to know just how far i can go
maybe theres a store 20 miles away that i like to go to
but ive never had it past 17 that sorta thing

im not saying id push the batteries to the brink of death
id just explore the range more (at 80% dod of course)


i like your concept
i live on a hill and going up and down would be murder in an ev
its about 2 miles and the incline would probably cut at least double that in range
so my ears are always open to EV builders who live with hills

Well, it's been a few days of being a daily driver and the Kelly NEEDS replacing. We have found a few work arounds for hills, such as timing the drive when no one is around, and going into 1st so the car will move at 15 MPH!

I have placed my left over EV parts up for sale to make money for my controller replacement. I am hoping to get the new Synkromotive controller to get the EV running, and slowly build the Open Source Controller to add all sorts of features, and probably use it in EV2.

EV Parts Lot for Sale - DIY Electric Car Forums

Wow, this needs an update:

First, I replaced my MAXX29 pack after 1,000 miles under warranty. They needed an equalization charge, but I didn't know at the time and didn't want to mess around, so I just had them replaced. I have also designed and built a BMS for each battery to try and keep them balanced when charging.

After the new pack was installed, my brakes went on me so I spent about a week replacing everything brake related, new rotors, pads, drums, shoes, etc and went to continue breaking in my new pack when my transmission went on me. I guess after 244,130 miles it was time.....

I have been EV-less for over two weeks while trying to locate a replacement transmission. I found one this past Thursday and bought it and hope to have it today. It's from a local salvage yard and was still in the donor when I arrived at the yard on Thursday. It was supposed to be ready yesterday, but I am still waiting for it.

I also have started to work on installing heat into the EV. I have been using a Ceramic heater on the seat to preheat the EV in the mornings, but I also need something inside to defrost the windshield when the snow comes, so I am looking to install a ceramic element into the EV and have one outside so I can still preheat the EV before driving off.

Cool, a ceramic heater on 72v! I thought only the 144v volt guys coud use them....