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-   -   Did I just sand off my paint?! (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/did-i-just-sand-off-my-paint-30130.html)

Xist 10-01-2014 09:27 PM

Did I just sand off my paint?!
 
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...034_o.jpg?dl=1

So, this annoying mechanic said that if you have scratched paint, you can use Scratch Out and a buffer to make your car look good again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxni0iqsP0o

I do not want to ask you guys about everything, but maybe I should, which is sad, but I looked into this, and it seemed that since I could barely feel my scratches, they were only in the clear coat, so if I buffed them down, the scratches would go away, and then I needed to apply a new layer of clear coat.

I planned on hiring a professional to do the last part.

The kid at O'Reilly recommended Meguire's over Scratch Out, but it did not do anything. The bottle recommended using their rubbing compound instead of their polishing compound for hard jobs, and that made the scratches look bigger, which I figured was a start. I looked into it further and read that I could use 800-grit sandpaper, then 1,200, and finally 1,600.

Autozone had a pack with 1,000, 1,500, 2,000, and 2,500-grit wet-dry sandpaper, but I did not notice the cracks fading until the paint itself was.

Mom keeps telling me to go to Maaco. Since I usually only have cars for a year or two, I guess that I might as well. If I still have this car when the paint looks worse than before I tried to fix it, hopefully my finances are better.

I like to do stuff myself, but I do not think that anything good would come out of painting my own car! :)

redpoint5 10-01-2014 09:42 PM

Those don't look like scratches, but cracks in the paint. As far as I know, you can only fix cracks by repainting.

That said, I wouldn't bother trying to make it look good, as long as the metal is protected.

Here was my old ride, before I bought the TSX.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...nt/Work018.jpg

Believe it or not, I still had beautiful girlfriends that were willing to date a guy that drove that. It's what's inside that counts.

Cobb 10-01-2014 10:18 PM

If I were you I wouldnt be wearing clean underware any more. :eek: I used turtle wax scratch x and it was like tooth paste. It left a white chips all over the place. The paint I was using the buffer on was scratch free.

user removed 10-01-2014 10:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
From the looks of your picture the clearcoat is "crazing" which means it has cracks. If that is the case then the only solution is to remove everything, reprime with urethane and sand and repaint.

As far as doing it yourself, considering your track record on other repairs, I would just wax it and leave it alone. A complete strip and repaint is an expensive proposition.

I added a picture of the roof on my Sentra. It has a tan base coat, then a metallic and clear combination coat, then the final clear coat. I can't see painting this car, it's just not worth it.

To paint a car today, you need to not expose yourself to any fumes, or any direct contact with your skin. The overspray is very toxic and should be properly filtered, collected and disposed of. You need a very good spray booth and professional materials. I have painted 300 cars all over and many more partials in 10 years doing bodywork.

regards
mech

user removed 10-01-2014 10:54 PM

Your paint actually looks like the lacquer paints did decades ago. If your car is black and you have to do something, take the hood off and have it painted with a single stage black. You could strip it with an electric drill and scotchbrite to save most of the labor, then the pro would only have to actually sand the primer and paint the panel.

regards
mech

War_Wagon 10-02-2014 12:05 AM

1. Yes you did sand off the paint.

2. It doesn't matter as it's cracked anyway, there was no easy fix for it so don't feel bad, it was already wrecked.

Sometimes you can make stuff look better by wet sanding it then re-clear coating it, but by the time you do all that it would have been easier to just repaint it. Scratches can usually be fixed, or at least made a lot better, but when the base coat of colour is damaged then all the polish/wax etc in the world won't fix it.

pgfpro 10-02-2014 01:14 AM

I'm with Mech and the others on this one. This is my expertise. Sad to say lol I'm a certified PPG, BASF, Dupont now Axalta, and Chem Spec painter. I have been painting cars since the mid 80's. Part of my job description now is to figure out paint problems. Yeah its very boring. lol

Anyway the pic shows crazing or what we used to call "Lacquer check". Its cracking the clear-coat and base-coat and primer by the looks of it. Usually it's caused by not enough UV protection. You living in Arizona makes it even harder on the finishes.

The only way to fix it in this case is to strip it all the way done to bare metal and work your way up with a epoxy or etch primer and then a two part Urethane primer then a base coat clear coat system or single stage Urethane color if its a non-metallic color.

If you give me the paint code I can give a estimate of paint cost tomorrow when I get back to work. In fact we have stores in your area
"KC Auto Paint and supplies". I'm the store manager of KC Auto here in Paint Coeur d' alene. But just a warning its not going to be cheap. The cost of refinish paint has gone up on the weighted average of 6.0% every year for the last 10 years. So usually you can have the job done for around the same amount of money including labor then the cost of the paint.

But to answer your question you defiantly sanded through the paint but the paint was already a bad.

Also as Mech suggested you should be doing this in a well ventilated area. I prefer a paint booth. The primers and clear coats contain Isocynate and its very harmful to the body. A 3M part# 7193 respirator will run you around $24.00 alone. You should also have iso eye protection and a iso body shoot suit to keep it from contacting your skin.

If you have any another question feel free to ask.

Russell

Xist 10-02-2014 04:29 AM

I have fixed everything that I started fixing, although I never finished the power steering delete, because the car always needed things that were more important.

Painting, though, I understand to not be something that just takes longer if you are still learning, if you do not know what you are doing, it will look bad, and then fail.

PGFPro, are you saying that I could pay someone else to paint my car for what the paint alone would cost?

I looked into repainting my car when I first purchased her. I read about paints that were allegedly as good as the name-brand ones, but much less, and they insisted that you could prime, paint, and clear-coat with one layer.

None of that made any sense to me.

Nobody says that it is worth redoing, but I could remove the remaining 99% of the paint with a drill and Scotchbrite, and pay someone else to actually paint? I would just need the ISO safety equipment and booth to actually paint, right? Not that I want to be breathing my old paint!

Well, it really sounds like I needed to ask you guys about this before I started. How long would touch-up paint last? :)

Crazing goes all of the way through the paint and primer, but you can barely feel it?

Someone tried to convince me to purchase Dad's Focus. She said that prospective employers look at applicants' cars and it made a big difference with dating, too. She said she used to do the hiring at a temp agency and used to send out minions to look at the car of people being interviewed.

That is a strange story...

pgfpro 10-02-2014 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 448489)
I have fixed everything that I started fixing, although I never finished the power steering delete, because the car always needed things that were more important.

Painting, though, I understand to not be something that just takes longer if you are still learning, if you do not know what you are doing, it will look bad, and then fail.

PGFPro, are you saying that I could pay someone else to paint my car for what the paint alone would cost?

I looked into repainting my car when I first purchased her. I read about paints that were allegedly as good as the name-brand ones, but much less, and they insisted that you could prime, paint, and clear-coat with one layer.

None of that made any sense to me.

Nobody says that it is worth redoing, but I could remove the remaining 99% of the paint with a drill and Scotchbrite, and pay someone else to actually paint? I would just need the ISO safety equipment and booth to actually paint, right? Not that I want to be breathing my old paint!

Well, it really sounds like I needed to ask you guys about this before I started. How long would touch-up paint last? :)

Crazing goes all of the way through the paint and primer, but you can barely feel it?

Someone tried to convince me to purchase Dad's Focus. She said that prospective employers look at applicants' cars and it made a big difference with dating, too. She said she used to do the hiring at a temp agency and used to send out minions to look at the car of people being interviewed.

That is a strange story...

I should of been more specific, sorry I meant if your just going to paint the hood only you can probably have someone paint it after you strip it for the same cost of the materials to paint the hood. The reason is because the quantity that the primers, sealer and color and clear come in.

What we do today in the refinish world is we set up our customers with a complete mixing bank and scale that runs off a computers system that allow very small amounts of product to be made (primers,sealers, color and clear). Down to two ounces. So a Body Shop will only use 20% verse you buying the products based on the containers the product come in. In other words you will have a lot of material left over from a job. Now this is OK if you are going to do other jobs and will be using the left overs at a later date?

Now the other factor that is the big one is most likely you will not be happy with the your first attempt of painting your car. Just last week I know of three customers that wanted to do their own painting, and all three screw the pooch and are re-doing their jobs over again One of them is on his third try. One is doing a motor cycle and has thrown away over $1000.00 in materials.:eek: Thanks to cable shows today,the flip this car and restoration shows are making people think this is very easy work and very profitable. The man hours that go into a paint restoration job are unreal!!! They never show how much time it takes to prep and paint a car. They just drop it off and the next day its ready. Its a total joke!!! I have been on a filming set where as soon as they are done shooting one step and the cameras are off about eight body men come in and start thrashing on the car. It looks like a ant nest that just got stepped on. lol OK enough of my rant. lol

pgfpro 10-02-2014 01:44 PM

OK I'm at work and just ran some numbers.

For our top of the line PPG DBC Base Coat system you would be at 461.85 before tax.

This includes
bare metal primer
Sanding primer Surfacer
Primer Sealer
Base Coat color based on Honda code NH547
Clear coat

I also did some job costing in our computer system that we provide our Body Shop customers with, and it came to $139.00 before tax with a 30% mark up. This is based on the small amounts to do a Honda hood.

Xist 10-02-2014 04:58 PM

PGFPro,

So, if I strip the paint off of my hood, I can have someone else paint it for what the materials alone would cost me? Is the $461.85 how much the paint would cost me and the $139 is how much your shop would charge to do it?

I honestly think that Maaco would do better than I would, but for just my hood, it would be worth going somewhere professional.

I have not watched any car-flipping shows, I usually do not watch television, but I have seen many house-flipping shows, and they seem similarly unrealistic, I always understood that you always lost money remodeling, you just made the house easier to sell. I tried to purchase a home that had been flipped, it was gorgeous, I just wish that my agent had told me that it was not worth the $94,500 they asked. I offered the same amount, they accepted, and then the valuation came in at $79,000.

"Homes on Homes" got started because Homes complained to show producers about how unrealistic their programs were--contractors worked for reduced rates or for free for television exposure, suppliers did the same with their products, they worked nineteen hours a day to get everything done on time, and they could not possibly have permits and inspections done that fast.

Cost vs. Value 2013 | Phoenix, Arizona | Remodeling keeps track of remodeling done nationwide and the highest rate of return was 98% for replacing the front door with a steel one.

pgfpro 10-02-2014 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 448578)
PGFPro,

So, if I strip the paint off of my hood, I can have someone else paint it for what the materials alone would cost me? Is the $461.85 how much the paint would cost me and the $139 is how much your shop would charge to do it?

I honestly think that Maaco would do better than I would, but for just my hood, it would be worth going somewhere professional.

I have not watched any car-flipping shows, I usually do not watch television, but I have seen many house-flipping shows, and they seem similarly unrealistic, I always understood that you always lost money remodeling, you just made the house easier to sell. I tried to purchase a home that had been flipped, it was gorgeous, I just wish that my agent had told me that it was not worth the $94,500 they asked. I offered the same amount, they accepted, and then the valuation came in at $79,000.

"Homes on Homes" got started because Homes complained to show producers about how unrealistic their programs were--contractors worked for reduced rates or for free for television exposure, suppliers did the same with their products, they worked nineteen hours a day to get everything done on time, and they could not possibly have permits and inspections done that fast.

Cost vs. Value 2013 | Phoenix, Arizona | Remodeling keeps track of remodeling done nationwide and the highest rate of return was 98% for replacing the front door with a steel one.

The $139.00 is the amount they would charge you for the paint with the 30% mark up included. Then a few more dollars for associated products tape masking and sanding paper etc. So in my area you would be looking around $350.00 to $400.00 to paint your hood with materials.

redpoint5 10-02-2014 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 448578)
I just wish that my agent had told me that it was not worth the $94,500 they asked. I offered the same amount, they accepted, and then the valuation came in at $79,000.

You learned an industry secret the hard way; that buyers agents have no motivation to get a good deal for their client. Agents only care about their client buying a home, and fast.

I offered quite a lot less on my home against my agent's advice, and the seller accepted without a counter. It made me wish I had offered even less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgfpro (Post 448624)
The $139.00 is the amount they would charge you for the paint with the 30% mark up included. Then a few more dollars for associated products tape masking and sanding paper etc. So in my area you would be looking around $350.00 to $400.00 to paint your hood with materials.

So, not worth it. Get a junkyard hood for $100 and call it a day. I have a feeling there is more than 1 Honda Civic with the right paint color sitting in the yard.

Xist 10-03-2014 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgfpro (Post 448624)
The $139.00 is the amount they would charge you for the paint with the 30% mark up included. Then a few more dollars for associated products tape masking and sanding paper etc. So in my area you would be looking around $350.00 to $400.00 to paint your hood with materials.

Is $139 for exactly the amount of paint that I need, or just the smallest size, so that I can improve my skill from horrifyingly atrocious to merely hideous?

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 448640)
You learned an industry secret the hard way; that buyers agents have no motivation to get a good deal for their client. Agents only care about their client buying a home, and fast.

Well, it cost my realtor a commission. I do not have any idea when I will be able to purchase a house, but I will probably choose another agent. I imagine the commission is a percentage, though, so the more that I pay, the more that he earns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 448640)
So, not worth it. Get a junkyard hood for $100 and call it a day. I have a feeling there is more than 1 Honda Civic with the right paint color sitting in the yard.

Well, there is an A0 hood for $75 1,089 miles away in Texas, except that I am prohibited from leaving the state. There are a total of five in Arizona, three that are the wrong color, and two of unspecified colors, one thirteen miles away in Phoenix for $75, and one for $150 184 miles away, in Yuma.

I will call those two places tomorrow, but I will call Phoenix first.

nemo 10-03-2014 08:47 AM

What are everyone's favorite tricks for hood alignment. I always scribe the hood where the hinges mounted (Whiteout could be an option) for replacement of the same hood. Guess you could do that and measure from the back and put a similar line on the replacement one to get you in the ballpark.

Baltothewolf 10-03-2014 09:23 AM

Step 1: Go buy a 3-gallon tub of Plasti dip that comes with the sprayer for ~350$.
Step 2: Spray entire car with Plasti dip.
Step 3: Stop wasting money in a futile attempt at fixing cosmetic issues.
Step 4: Better looking car anyway due to Plasti dip.
Step 5: ????
Step 6: Profit!!!

vskid3 10-03-2014 12:21 PM

14 year old economy car that you're (probably) aeromodding? Sand the whole hood and spray it with primer.

Xist 10-03-2014 03:21 PM

Can you guys just agree on something?! :)

If nothing else, I should Plasti-Dip it so that it does not rust, which I expect it to still manage to do here in Arizona.

solarguy 10-03-2014 03:43 PM

One or two rattle cans of krylon in a nicely contrasting color. 8 bucks. Move on.

star_deceiver 10-04-2014 12:36 AM

Rattle can ^^^^
You can also buy rattle can clear coat.
Sand, spray and done!

Or think of it this way.... for $400 you can have a brand new set of really good tires.

War_Wagon 10-04-2014 12:43 AM

1. Go to the wreckers as Redpoint said, find a black hood.

2. Failing that, there are places a lot cheaper than Macco. I can get a hood painted here for $200 all in, and it's a decent enough job. If you know anyone that works at a car lot, ask them where they get it done. On a car that age you don't need perfection, just an improvement. You could also see if there is an ADESA auction near you, I used to work for them and know that they are pushing on getting their side services busy, meaning if the one near you has an onsite body shop for car dealers to use, they will be more than happy to take your money too. Worth a try if there is one close by.

Xist 10-04-2014 03:43 AM

I did not call those two auto recyclers as I wrote that I would yesterday, but I was pretty busy today, although car-part does not show any black hoods, three or four other color, and two that are unspecified.

I thought that Maaco was the cheapest, both least expensive and lowest quality. I read stories about Les Schwab, but Maaco seems to have almost as bad a reputation.

I read some more reviews. Some say great things and some say horrible things, but people keep saying that if you do the preparation yourself, it makes a huge difference.

Xist 10-04-2014 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 448442)
Believe it or not, I still had beautiful girlfriends that were willing to date a guy that drove that. It's what's inside that counts.

http://i.imgur.com/Cl7y5Gt.jpg

How smart were they? What had they accomplished with their lives?

Did they get you into ecomodding? :)

redpoint5 10-04-2014 05:12 AM

All the cool kids are doing carbon fiber wraps, especially on Honda Civics.

Drop $20 on a wrap kit and spend the rest of your hard earned dough on more important things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 448869)
How smart were they? What had they accomplished with their lives?

I don't know because I don't keep in touch with the exes. Trick question right? ;)

Seriously though, I won't even Facebook friend a girl I am dating. Nothing good can come of that.

...and just for the record, I am happily married, and my wife knows I'm on this site all the time. She is all about driving efficiently, just not into forums and general nerdiness. Disinterest in physics must run in their (woman) DNA. That said, she did get 5 requests for interviews at prestigious schools as a candidate for PA grad school. My wife keeps telling me she will soon know more about the human body than me, and I won't have any more excuses to avoid fruits and vegetables.

Xist 10-04-2014 09:35 AM

The carbon vinyl kit is interesting, is there anything similar that is not pretending to be something else? Marine wrap? :D

redpoint5 10-04-2014 02:30 PM

You could go camo...

http://www.powersportswraps.com/pwrb...d-attack-8.jpg

California98Civic 10-04-2014 03:06 PM

My black 1998 Civic's hood has exactly the same cracking problem. Has had the problem since at least 2006, when a professional detailing revealed the cracks. Certain polishes make the cracking visible. Just washing and waxing tends to make the cracking fade. Scratchout and Maguiers make the cracks bright white and standout.

Xist 06-08-2016 11:44 AM

How bad would it be if I painted my hood with Rustoleum? A black one finally showed up in a junk yard. It says A0 for $50. How would they mark a part with crazing? I am just unsure about picking up a hood in my Civic, I would want to try to schedule something with my roommate who has a truck, but if I could repaint it for less than that hood costs...

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...0-a-16333.html

From what I have read, this is YMMV. Some people say the paint fades after eighteen months, while others say they did it three to five years ago and it still looks good.

How to Paint your Car without a Gun | The Smoking Tire

One guy said he painted cars professionally: “I will note that you can roll on activated acrylic enamel as well. If you would use this instead of rustoleum, you can buy it for around $60 a gallon for the cheap stuff. The durability and UV protection will be so much higher that it isn’t even worth thinking about…you have all those hours in it and the cost is about $40 more total.”

“You can buy isocyanate hardeners for old school alkyd enamels like Rustoleum. $30 for a gallon of Rustoleum, and $30 for a pint of hardener to mix with it.” So, the same price of cheap activated acrylic enamel?

Daox 06-08-2016 11:54 AM

When I repaired the rust on my sister's jetta I just used a spray can of black paint. It turned out pretty good. Its definitely not perfect, but on a 14 year old car (its a 2002) it blends right in and you can't tell unless you're looking for it. So, IMO you can totally do it. How long it'll last is another question that I don't have an answer to.

Before:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1455550975



Sanded down:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1455550975



Bondo and sanding:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1456671648



Primed and sanded:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1456671648



Painted:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1456671648

California98Civic 06-08-2016 12:30 PM

Don't use rustoleum. A buddy painted his sweet Metro project with red rustoleum and all the surfaces that face a lot of sun have lost their shine. All of it is dull. It has barely been 2 years. Might be less than that. He put soooo much work into it, stripping the car down to bare body. Quite the bummer.

Daox 06-08-2016 12:45 PM

I think rustoleum will work, but you definitely want to top coat it with some clear that is UV resistant.

California98Civic 06-08-2016 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 515957)
I think rustoleum will work, but you definitely want to top coat it with some clear that is UV resistant.

Maybe. But if you can mix a better acrylic and roll it on too, I think the extra $30 really is worth it, given the risk of fading. Fading not fun.

Xist 06-08-2016 04:29 PM

I have seen a few mentions of putting clear coat over Rustoleum, but did not read about anybody trying it until I searched. This guy used Rustoleum paint and Rustoleum clear coat, but the paint wrinkled when he used the clear coat. People kept saying not to use their clear coat and someone said it contains acetone, which is the problem: Clear coat hell

This guy did a two-tone paint job and the second color was ruined when he applied the clear coat, but the first was fine. Someone commented that you either need to use the clear coat while the paint is still wet or wait a week for all of the solvents to evaporate; Rustoleum clear ate my base coat

Curiously, while people say Rustoleum comes off too easily, that does not necessarily apply when someone tries to sand it down to repaint.

Perhaps you get what you pay for?

Daox 06-08-2016 04:36 PM

If you're worried about wrinkling, just test it out on something else first.

redpoint5 06-08-2016 10:55 PM

2 years later and nothing has been done yet! At this point, why do anything? Just leave it be.

Xist 06-09-2016 12:14 AM

Only a year and eight months!

Like I kept saying, there were not any black hoods in nearby junkyards. I was surprised to find this one. Also, I did not have any disposable income until two months ago.

redpoint5 06-09-2016 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 516019)
Also, I did not have any disposable income until two months ago.

Keep it! Income should not be considered disposable.

freebeard 06-09-2016 04:15 AM

Quote:

The carbon vinyl kit is interesting, is there anything similar that is not pretending to be something else? Marine wrap?
The vinyl that they use to print signage on buses comes in primary colors. Try a sign shop.

I just touched up the paint on my brake calipers. I used a heat gun to try and speed up the drying and what I found was that runs sort of shimmer under the gun and you can push wet paint out of them under the skin as it forms with the air. I also saw a Youtube video on rattle-canning cars and he used a heat gun to pop air bubbles.

Xist 06-09-2016 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 516020)
Keep it! Income should not be considered disposable.

Should cars?

My sister already calls my car "old and crappy," but if I were not frugal, I would not have been able to loan her money this week.

I just want to take care of my stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 516027)
The vinyl that they use to print signage on buses comes in primary colors. Try a sign shop.

This?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...end-19304.html

Who bought white perforated window vinyl and then someone asked which was more difficult, Plasti-Dipping a side mirror, or applying vinyl?

California98Civic 06-09-2016 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 516054)
... My sister already calls my car "old and crappy," but if I were not frugal, I would not have been able to loan her money this week. ...

+1 on that. I am using the insurance savings, depreciations savings, gasoline savings, and repairs savings to pay down my home loan principle. It is like a guaranteed 5% return on investment. My car ain't worth anthing and costs sooo little (for a car) and yet it reliably does every core job a new one would.


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