Diesel engine swap
 

Hey guys im looking for suggestions. Ive got a 1990 honda civic wagon dx automatic im considering doing a manual trans swap and a diesel engine swap on a seriously low budget. Im wanting to use some kind of industrial engine air or liquid cooled and between 25-30 hp. What honda trans would you recommend and what engine do you think would be best. Right now this project is in the thinking stage and i want as many opinions as i can get. My goal is to be able to cruise at 55-65 and not lose to much speed on hills and still be able to carry a little extra weight. Thanks in advance

That is a very low HP. Any reason for that? I would think you could get an old VW diesel quite cheaply since there were so many made for the USA (relatively, the numbers are still kinda small because diesels are not so popular here). Anyway, I am also interested and hope to learn from your thread.
james

The reason for such low hp is i don't need great acceleration. Im looking to make it get great mpgs just cruising on the highway. How much hp do you guys think i need? A vw diesel would be great but they arent easy to find and parts arent either. I dont mind going slow my diesel blazer has if i remember correctly about 140 horsepower it does just fine because of the torque. :turtle:

I think you'd need only 10 or 15 hp for 55 or 60 mph freeway cruise on level ground, but climbing any hill at freeway speed would probably ask for more than the 30hp you're considering, unless you don't mind slowing a lot. I think that's true.

Thats about what i was thinking for flat ground maybe ive underestimated how much power hills require:o i guess i need someone who paid more attention in school to help with the math!!!!!!

Here's some numbers. I'm making wild guesses as to weights and drag because I'm too lazy to look up more accurate numbers, but it will give you an idea. Remember that the power available at that speed depends on the transmission gear ratios, so rated engine power will need to be higher.

Assume:
55 MPH
6% grade
3500 lbs with driver, fuel, dirt, and stuff
15 hp to hold 55 MPH on a level road
85% driveline efficiency

Then the power needed to climb the hill is:
3500 lbs X 0.06 grade X 55 MPH X 1.467 (convert to ft/sec) / 550 (ft-lbs/sec/hp) = 31 hp at the rear wheels.

Engine power needed is then (31 + 15) / 0.85 = 54 hp
Add 3 hp to run alternator, water pump, power steering pump = 57 hp.

The bad point regarding the smaller industrial engines is the power-to-weight ratio, but some 3-cylinder water-cooled ones from Lombardini/Kohler and that rebadged Daihatsu once sold by Briggs & Strattons are not bad options at all. There is also that Perkins-designed Caterpillar C1.1 rated at 28hp, but I'd still take a look at a Kohler or that Daihatsu. You may also consider the engine out of a Kawasaki Mule or that Polaris Ranger. BTW are you considering to test WVO and other alternative fuels too?

. Thanks man i'll be doing more research and playing with that formula a little bit! If it weren't for minimum speeds on the highway my original plan would have worked lol

Yes i would like to play around with alternative fuels. Ive considered running wvo in my blazer i just havent done it yet. Im also considering adding and electric motor in my car to drive the rear wheels after i switch to a manual trans it would really help my fuel mileage quiet a bit + id be the only guy around here with a diesel electric hybrid.

Seems like a redneck-engineered version of the Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4 :thumbup:

Thank you i just wish i could get paid to be a redneck engineer lol i guess i'll take my fuel savings as a paycheck. Wow i just reread my last reply and realised i need to double check my spelling and grammer!!!!:D

What's wrong with the redneck-engineering part? As long as a simple solution works effectively at a lower cost, it's nice :thumbup:

Nothing wrong with it lol i was being serious when i said thank you. Sorry if it seemed like i took offense because i really didn't.:thumbup:

OK. Anyway, the front wheels driven by the small Diesel with the rear ones driven by an electric motor can actually be a good idea. BTW you might eventually also consider turbocharging the Diesel...

Yeah i was thinking turbo and possibly propane injection. Maybe just use the propane injection on hills to get some of the extra power that i would need. If i understand correctly propane does for a diesel what nitrous oxide does for a gas engine correct me if im wrong on that. I figure i can use electric to do short low speed driving. It could also work for 4 wheel drive when needed in snow.

Propane has detonation issues, it's not so safe to be used in a Diesel as CNG or even ethanol, and it actually doesn't have the same effect as nitrous oxide since it's a fuel instead of a combustion enhancer. Would be better to just get a turbo instead of using propane. A water+methanol injection would be better than propane since it acts like a chemical intercooler while avoiding detonation issues, and it also decreases the risks associated to the glycerin polymerizing while using WVO.

Cripple_rooster you sir are awesome :thumbup: thanks for all the helpful info. So looks like 3 cylinder diesel+turbo+water methanol injection is the way to go.

I'm a die-hard dieselhead. Too bad I wouldn't be able to do legally a project like yours in my country, since Diesel engines can't be fitted into vehicles with a payload lower than one metric ton (unless they're either hi-lo 4WD or have a seating capacity higher than 9). They were banned from the local market in '79 but some folks managed to get compact pick-up trucks and wagons converted and legally registered until '93. But some few folks are registering direct-injection Diesel engines as ethanol-powered to be able to use them into light-duty vehicles...

Im currently a learning diesel-head thats part of the reason for this project its educational :D that sucks about the laws there. Can you have diesel motorcycles?

No, since they can't haul a metric ton. But nothing prevents me from building a Diesel tricycle with a 1-ton payload :D

Anyway, have you taken a look at the Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4 layout?

Now that would be cool a diesel trike with a big payload!!!
Yeah i looked at it a little bit thats basically what i want to make my car just with technology i can understand and work on myself

I was looking at this engine: Kohler Engines: KDW1003: Kohler Diesel Liquid-Cooled: Product Detail: Engines 3-pot IDI water-cooled.

But this one doesn't seem so bad altough it's a little heavier: Kohler Engines: KD625-2: Kohler Diesel Air-Cooled: Product Detail: Engines twin, direct injection and air-cooled.

Those engines are just what im looking for. Im not to concerned with a little extra weight i can lighten other parts of the car to make up for it. I need to measure how much space i have under the hood to work with and i need to figure out how much my stock engine weighs so i'll be able to guess at a final weight so i can figure how much power i'll really need. I know where an onan 4 cylinder is that i could probly get very cheep but onans are heavy and underpowered, do you have any experience with onan diesels? Can more power be made with one safely? I'd hate to hot rod it and start shedding parts on the test drive:eek::mad:

Ok my engine is aproximately 24 inches longx24 inches widex19 inches tall with a little bit to play with and based on the internet 208lbs dry weight

Remember: less weight over the front axle means less effort to steer, and a lighter engine wouldn't require you to beef up the suspension and brakes so much...

Yes less weight is always better. But i also have a small budget for this project if i do it and light diesels are a bit pricier but im definately looking around for light ones. Another thought i had is to drop a gm 6.2 diesel into a pontiac firebird. My dad has one that had a fire under the hood ( there has to be ha good joke there somewhere ) i could get cheap and the 6.2 can be had cheap.

better rethink that slightly.
 

We have some of the flattest straightest roads in the nation here,
But your lack of power might get ya killed when getting onto the hiways.
About 1/3 have a moderate incline and short merge lanes so plan your 0-60 at 2+ degrees in 1/2 mile.
Then factor in the I own the road people and the I never yields or the rollin 40 over postedees and you are a mangled lump 33 feet past end of merge lane.
within a month.

again It all sounds great but.
 

Max Power @3000 RPM hp (kW) 1 22.1 (16.5)
Displacement cu in (cc) 76.2 (1248)
Bore in (mm) 3.7 (95)
Stroke in (mm) 3.5 (88)
Max Torque lbs. ft (Nm)1 38.7 (52.5)

Look at the lack of torque it just isnt there. Ive also wanted to do this for awhile with my 03 civic. but what I sent before, that isnt just an off handed comment. I witnessed a mini china truck attempt an on ramp and ditched out at last second and slide down the hill trying to merge. This is a on ramp I always took for granted but always tried to merge into at about 70.
He had found 45 maybe and it wasnt pretty.

Thank you for your concern and input. Maybe i should go with the firebird and 6.2 diesel. Ive ridden underpowered motorcycles on i-40 and yes its frightening so i understand what your saying about being able to accelerate quickly.

A sports car with a Diesel is nice too.

Have you seen the lotus 7 replica (locost) with a kubota diesel? That to me is the ultimate hypermiler car even though the aerodynamics aernt great.

I have seen something about that.