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Plum 05-15-2011 05:49 PM

Diesel Modification
 
I seen a couple posts regarding this topic, therefore thought I would ask for help.

I drive a Jaguar S-type, and changed my driving habits to those recommended on this site. I have gone from 19.5MPG to 27MPG > thank you.

Anyway, I drive about 50K miles per year, therefore would love to drive something a bit more economical, though not a fan of anything produced on the market with 40+MPG.

Therefore, I would like to swap a diesel into my 1990 XJ40 (straight 6, 4.0litre)

I have heard, and seen some old jaguar's converted with a Nissan 2.2...

Any suggestions before I start, regarding the easiest, no pun intended, swap?

Would tracking down a nissan 2.2 be the best route?
Jetta TDI engines are readily available here - might this 1.9 turbo make a good choice?

My cousin is into hot rodding and fabbing, so I will have him at my disposal.

cleanspeed1 05-15-2011 06:11 PM

I'll throw a different spin on this; call Jaguar conversions, swaps, parts, service and advice - from John's Cars in Dallas. and look into a small block kit; then instead of the Nissan motor, get a 6.2 / 6.5 GM and swap it in. This engine bolts to wherever a small block GM can fit.

If you do a search here, there's a gentleman that swapped one of these into a Corvette. He's doing 40 mpg.

These engines can be bought for no money, they're easy to fix and better match for that heavy Jag. Between Heath Diesel and Kennedy Diesel there's enough expertise to make these engines run very well.

Plum 05-15-2011 06:36 PM

cleenspeed - thanks for the quick response.

I believe i know of the conversions you speak of (brunswick perhaps; comes to mind).

I did not think it would yield results like such (in regards to MPG) I will do some research and take a look at your link.

Many thanks!

cleanspeed1 05-15-2011 06:48 PM

The 6.2/6.5 is a lot better than most people think.

Christ 05-15-2011 07:51 PM

The 6.2 is capable of at least high 20's city and 30's highway. A suburban can get 30's with one, I'm sure your jag can do it...

Also, a 3.0 5cyl merc turbo might get you somewhere. Someone here put one in aSuburban and got +30 with that arrangement.

Christ 05-15-2011 07:55 PM

For you, the AHU (1.9 TDI) is much more readily available. Not easy to come by in the US. Given that, it may be prudent for you to use one. That will pretty much guarantee 40+, 50+ with good driver skill.

SwamiSalami 05-16-2011 08:11 PM

The 1.9 alh is the way to go.

skyking 05-17-2011 09:31 AM

a 1.9 is no match for the chassis weight of the Jag. It weighs in at 3979 pounds.
That would be a frightening drive in any trying condition, a merge, etc.

Christ 05-17-2011 09:38 AM

How much of the JAG's weight is engine/accessories?

I'd be willing to bet that its a fair amount, and given that the 1st gen Ford explorer was questionably safe to operate in daily life, and is seriously under powered (relative to similar cars) with it's 6 cylinder, and weighs some 4k lbs, the JAG with a 1.9 turbo diesel would be finely capable.

cleanspeed1 05-17-2011 09:51 AM

The XJ40 chassis has an all aluminum engine that is way lighter than the 4.2 from the previous generation XJ's.

What about the BMW 2.4L inline 6 turbodiesel?

Christ 05-17-2011 10:13 AM

The VAG AHU TDi is 89hp and 149tq...

The BMW 2.4 is 114hp and 162tq, and will probably cost twice as much, and weigh more as well.

That power or more can be made perry easily from the AHU, which will be very easy to get from a wreck in Canadia.

I still want to make a trip to michigan so I can find an AHU "buried in the field"...

Lol.

cleanspeed1 05-17-2011 10:25 AM

Not bad for the AHU. I just figured the length would be a little closer to what is already in the car.

Christ 05-17-2011 10:50 AM

Isn't BMW part of VAG? Makes sense that a 25% larger engine of basically the same design would make around 25% more power.

euromodder 05-17-2011 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 238961)
Isn't BMW part of VAG?

No, they're independent.

Christ 05-17-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 238963)
No, they're independent.

Can't keep track of who's buying who these days...

Plum 05-18-2011 03:11 PM

just picked up the book jag that run.

nice thing about the chevy conversion is that they have been done before.

While yes - a 1.9 would secure high mileage, the above gets a few points with me.

my 120 mile commute to work is all country highway, therefore not to concenerned if it is a bit underpowered. If I want power, I have the other car.

I would imagine the 1.9 would have lots of room in there!

Plum 05-18-2011 03:25 PM

2002 Jetta TDI with the 1.9 in it comes in at 2970 lbs

1000 lbs differential if I were to go this route - unsure the weight difference in the engines, but one would think the engine is lighter.

cleanspeed1 05-18-2011 04:28 PM

The full dress weight of the TDI comes in at 297 pounds. The engine that you have is 531 pounds, plus the weight of the transmission. So depending on what transmission you run behind the VW unit, you might lighten the car up quite a bit. The 6.2/6.5 weighs about 700 lbs. ( still undercuts the BB Chevy by 40 lbs. ).

The main consideration will be dealing with the electronics. The 6.2/6.5s are by and large mechanical, except for the 6.5 turbodiesel that has the electronic Stanadyne DS4 pump ( these pumps have been maligned because of the location of the PMD. This thing gets hot and causes stalling problems. Move it to a cool location with a PMD relocator kit and all is good. ).

SwamiSalami 05-18-2011 10:23 PM

Yes. As I said before 1.9.

I don't understand why I'm the only one being second guessed here.

Christ 05-18-2011 10:41 PM

The 1.9 is by and large a stand alone system.

Sure there's wiring, but its only a few sensors and some injector trigger wires. 30 wires, maybe?

You don't even have to tap it into the Jag harness, you can leave the two parts separate from each other.

The AHU only has one engine mount, on the front. A bar could be made to stabilize it across the longitudinal engine bay, or bosses might be found on each side of the motor to mount it.

Big Dave's favorite suggestion is a T56 trans, which has a double over drive ratio. The 1.9 may need a little massaging to pull 62mph @ really low rpms, because it doesn't get into the good boost until 1400+rpm.

I think the target rpm for the 1.9 should be about 1300rpm @55-60mph. With a nice exhaust and intake, and a good tune on the motor, it should be do able.

I look forward to seeing this done. :thumbup:

Rusty Marina 05-18-2011 11:15 PM

Why not a Cummins BT 3.9 4 cylinder ?
They make plenty of low end torque, which would be needed for a heavy luxury car.
The rockcrawlers must like them for their low end torque because they're popular in Jeeps

cleanspeed1 05-19-2011 12:29 AM

It's a very strong, capable, modifiable engine, BUT, an unrefined beast.

It's not something you want in a Jaguar. No balance shafts make it a big vibrator, and the noise will get to you after a while. Not to mention when people see a beautiful sedan roll up sounding like a Massey Ferguson tractor.

At least the TDI is pretty quiet even after you add power to it.

Hey, how about the VAG/Volvo IDI inline 6 turbodiesel out of an old 740? Nothing but the VW IDI with 2 more cylinders.

G60ING 05-20-2011 09:04 AM

I wonder how tall of an engine can fit in there. A TDI swap is possible but there would be a good deal of fabrication and then there would be a good deal of electrical work too.

larrybuck 05-22-2011 07:56 PM

I like the 6.2 choice. It will be relatively cheap to purchase, also low upkeep, and low tech enough to bravely face what unfortunately will be a economic dismal future!

fud2468 05-23-2011 12:37 AM

6.2/6.5 for little or no money?
 
Guys, where do you find these GM diesels? And then, aren't they IDI and smokers designed for high-sulfur fuel?
Ray Mac.

cleanspeed1 05-23-2011 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fud2468 (Post 240158)
Guys, where do you find these GM diesels? And then, aren't they IDI and smokers designed for high-sulfur fuel?
Ray Mac.

You can find them anywhere, just do a search. They don't smoke unless the pump and injectors are worn out and they can handle low sulfur fuel. If there is a question about lubricity, add some treatment to the fuel.

GM made tons of these engines for almost 30 years and there isn't a great demand for them.

Arragonis 05-23-2011 03:28 AM

I would suggest some of the larger Audi units, the 2.5 S5 or V6 ?

320touring 05-23-2011 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arragonis (Post 240187)
I would suggest some of the larger Audi units, the 2.5 S5 or V6 ?


I'd second that, mainly because Audi longitudinally mount all their engines, even in the FWD models.

That means the mounts are the right way for a Jag..

Plus the power from the 2.5 v6 is suited to wafting A6 sized cars along- not too far off the Jag

Christ 05-23-2011 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320touring (Post 240212)

That means the mounts are the right way for a Jag..

Which, in reality, means nothing. He'll have to custom mount anything he puts in anyway.

Every mention of a 2.5 I'm seeing from Audi is showing either around 120hp, or around 300+hp. I imagine the latter being a newer gasser engine.

Point is: it's going to be heavier than the VW engine, have similar power, and is still made by VAG. It'll likely be more expensive, as well. AUDI is one of the Executive class labels in the world.

Arragonis 05-23-2011 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 240214)
Which, in reality, means nothing. He'll have to custom mount anything he puts in anyway.

Every mention of a 2.5 I'm seeing from Audi is showing either around 120hp, or around 300+hp. I imagine the latter being a newer gasser engine.

Point is: it's going to be heavier than the VW engine, have similar power, and is still made by VAG. It'll likely be more expensive, as well. AUDI is one of the Executive class labels in the world.

The bits in those are shared with quite a few VWs including Golfs and Jettas / Boras. Mounting a 1.9 TDI longways can be done if you get the bits from an Audi A4/A6 or from a VW Passat as they are mounted the same way.

Not easy mind but no engine swap is. :thumbup:

As 320 tapped there are versions of the Audi A6 which weighs probably the same as an XJ40 with TDis as small as the 1.9 with 110hp and they are not too shappy in terms of 'go' either.

Audi made a few 2.5 Diesels from 140hp (S5) to the V6 Twin Turbo at 180hp. There is a single turbo at 150hp I think as well. The S5 also made it into some Volvos - the 850 and V70/'new' V70 of 1999.

The Jaguar XF is about to be fitted with a new 2.2 4-pot Diesel with 188hp/300lb/ft and 53 MPG.

The XF weighs a lot more than an old XJ40 especially if the latter as had the "lightness by oxidation" facility built into older British cars at the factory :rolleyes:

Combining the two concepts, you could get a 1.9 TDi PD to make 170+hp / 280+lb/ft without huge difficulty or expense depending on your starting point, but ultimately this may not be as cheap as dragging out a truck engine and fitting that - which seems a shame as the extra capacity is not really needed with all those 4 pot TDIs around.

Still it may be whatever is available locally for the right money. Getting a suitable gearbox and rear end to match the lower revving Diesel may be more of a challenge than the engine choice alone.

Jetmugg 05-25-2011 11:02 AM

Earlier in this thread, someone suggested a Mercedes Turbodiesel. I will wholeheartedly second this suggestion. There are several good options from MB, depending on how much you want to spend and how much power you want. From the '80's era 617 turbodiesels, up through the later 60x series of engines, which were available as 2.2L 4 cylinders, 2.5L 5 cylinders (with or without turbo power), 3.0 or 3.5L 6 cylinders, and the 4 valve per cylinder 605 and 606 engines, again with or without turbos.

There are a variety of transmission choices from MB, from 3 speed autos all the way up to 6 speed manual trans.

For a full sized Jaguar, I would be looking for an OM605 or OM606 turbo, which are 2.5L and 3.0L, respectively, 4-valve per cylinder diesels which will work with both 100% mechanical injection pumps or electronically controlled pumps.

SteveM.

TheDon 05-28-2011 11:41 AM

I's go for a Mercedes om602 (2.5 5 cylinder turbo). The om606 turbo or non is a great engine but the electronic throttle control is a pain when swapping, the glow plugs are extra long (due to the twin cam) and will on occasion snap off in the head. You can mate an om603 injecting pump with mechanical throttle control, no problem.

But I'd suggest an om603 or om602 due to their great track records. The om617 is great, but the om60x series is a more modern design. The 61x series was designed I think in the 60's and took a lot of the technology from the earlier diesels. With the om60x series you get a modern diesel, mechanical fuel injection, turbocharged, cross flow head, reliability, and ease of maintenance.

Some out there in the Mercedes diesel world are afraid of the om60x series because of its aluminum head. Especially the om603 with its head. Like any aluminum head if you over heat it it will crack or warp. So don't let that scare you.

I've owned a 617 powered car, loved it. But it sounded like a farm tractor. I had an SDL with the 603 and now a 300D with the 3.0 603. Both great, strong, torque'y engines. Especially in the lighter 300D. Plus getting 30+ mpg with a 3.0 turbo engine is pretty sweet. If the jag has an overdrive gear you'll love it even more.


IIRC the 6 speeds did not go with the om606's. I believe a 5 speed was standard for the '98-99 E300D's.

The om617, and om60x series all had the 4 speed. With the om615 having an option of a 4 speed manual and a rare 5 speed option(more common in europe). I do believe the 5 speed from a 300E will mate to an om60x engine. The 190D 2.2 did come with a 5 speed and the 190D 2.5 non turbo/turbo I believe, dont quote me on this, but I believe had the option of a 5 speed as we..

Jetmugg 05-28-2011 12:48 PM

I totally agree with The Don. True, the 6 speed was never offered with a diesel, but it is possible to bolt it up to a 60X series engine using all MB parts. Also, the mechanical pumps from the 603 will work on the 606 engines, but you are getting in pretty deep at that point.

My 602 Turbo has about 240,000 miles, and it is still very strong, showing no signs of giving up any time soon.

Any of these MB into Jag conversions will involve some complexity.

Perhaps the more straightforward option is to buy a '92 or '93 300D 2.5T complete car. If well cared for, these are very fine automobiles.

SteveM.

Jetmugg 05-28-2011 12:49 PM

I used the 5-speed manual from an earlier 190D to put behind the 2.5 TD in my 190D 2.5 Turbo. It's a very good running and efficient combination.

instarx 05-29-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleanspeed1 (Post 238605)
instead of the Nissan motor, get a 6.2 / 6.5 GM and swap it in. This engine bolts to wherever a small block GM can fit.

If you do a search here, there's a gentleman that swapped one of these into a Corvette. He's doing 40 mpg.

These engines can be bought for no money, they're easy to fix and better match for that heavy Jag.

Its a good thing 6.5 L are are easy to fix, because they break a lot. I know because I used to own a 6.5L. That how I learned diesel mechanic'ing. I used to call myself a diesel mechanic when I owned it even though I had a real job. I think a Cummins BT4 would be a much better fit - it's smaller, lighter, 120-130 hp, bullet-proof and very common.

oldbeaver 06-15-2011 06:26 PM

Diesel engine conversion: see this site.
 
Hello,

I suggest that you visit my page, while I am not suggesting you to use the same engine I used. You may, but make yr own decission:

https://sites.google.com/site/rd28engineswap/

This engine is good, but you may find one better, as for example, the 1.9 TDI, which is a lot lighter and has more power and economy.

OldBeaver

rmay635703 06-15-2011 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by instarx (Post 241655)
I think a Cummins BT4 would be a much better fit - it's smaller, lighter, 120-130 hp, bullet-proof and very common.

Not exactly very common, when I was in the mood for one the blasted things were all $3k, obviously not common enough.

oldbeaver 06-16-2011 11:58 AM

I wish I had one of these!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg (Post 241467)
I used the 5-speed manual from an earlier 190D to put behind the 2.5 TD in my 190D 2.5 Turbo. It's a very good running and efficient combination.

I found a W124 MB with a 2.5 turbo diesel. However, it is located in a special region from which you are not allowed to import.

Just sad.

This is a car I would like to have for ever.

OldBeaver

cleanspeed1 06-16-2011 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg (Post 241467)
I used the 5-speed manual from an earlier 190D to put behind the 2.5 TD in my 190D 2.5 Turbo. It's a very good running and efficient combination.

Talk about a killer diesel car, even with an automatic it just flies. I can just imagine what it's like with a 5 speed.

Odin 06-16-2011 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleanspeed1 (Post 245456)
Talk about a killer diesel car, even with an automatic it just flies. I can just imagine what it's like with a 5 speed.

why is it the best model only came out for one year :mad:


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