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bandit86 03-23-2012 03:24 PM

Diesel substitute?
 
I know you can cook up bio diesel and veggie oil, all good stuff, but what else will diesel engines run on? Tractor hydraulic oil, engine oil, transmission fluid, powersteering fluid; I think these will work but the engine may no be happy in the long term

Ideas?

UFO 03-23-2012 05:38 PM

All sorts of toxic soup.

Best one I've heard is transformer oil from old power transformers, mineral oil with PCBs. And used engine oil, all sorts of particulate matter and metals will spew from the exhaust.

Most modern diesels will have trouble with anything other than diesel fuel, but my '82 Mercedes would run on anything, including oil-based paint. Perfect for the zombie apocalypse after the EMP destroys all the computers and digital infrastructure.

Diesel_Dave 03-23-2012 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandit86 (Post 295306)
....but what else will diesel engines run on?

Define "run".

slowmover 03-24-2012 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diesel_dave (Post 295351)
define "run".

lol!

redpoint5 03-24-2012 01:42 AM

I dump used motor oil from a car change directly into the fuel tank. I figure it's been filtered thousands of times, and then once more through a 10 micron fuel filter before it gets to my injectors. Of course, this is just 1 gallon of oil in a 35 gallon tank, and it's twice per year.

I've heard not to use power steering fluid, but I don't know why. I've also heard transmission fluid works, but will loosen up any crud in your fuel system and plug your fuel filter in a hurry.

I'd probably run any of these mixed with diesel in my truck. Anyone know how tiny I should be filtering to?

JasonG 03-24-2012 08:41 AM

Its very dependent on the engine.
Use a 5 micron filter, 10 at worst.
I back burn my motor oil at 10:1 in the 6.5 but would never in a VW TDI
The old mercs would run on nearly anything.
Somebody (here?) Worked at a shop and would mix barrels of used oil with tranny fluid to get a decent viscosity and burned that for years.
What engine are you contemplating ?
Does it use single hole or multi hole injectors ?
Biggest question is what pump is on it ?

slowmover 03-24-2012 05:15 PM

If the junkyard is full of dirt-cheap ultra low mile engines . . and a top mechanic owed me a lifetime of low-cost, highest quality work . . then maybe.

I recommend pricing a new factory replacement engine. And a factory re-manufactured engine. And FSM hours for replacement. Add 10% to all.

Then figure how much you'll "save" by running dirt and metal through the motor you currently have.

Break even on my truck should be close to $20k. I might need to drive 300k to recoup my potential loss.

So long as one is comfortable with that kind of equation then have at it.

.

rmay635703 03-24-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandit86 (Post 295306)
I know you can cook up bio diesel and veggie oil, all good stuff, but what else will diesel engines run on? Tractor hydraulic oil, engine oil, transmission fluid, powersteering fluid; I think these will work but the engine may no be happy in the long term

Ideas?

certain Ford diesels will run for a very long time on M85 if it is
1. Filtered
2. Cetrifuged
3. Engine is tuned for M85

Generally speaking, non-TDI diesels can physically run on WMO or WVO blends but it is only economically feasible if you
1. Have lots of free time
2. have unlimited free injectors and injector pumps.
I have noted a couple folks who would tear out injectors every few weeks on their old 6.2s, replace with a clean pair and clean out the engine and button up in about 4 hours.

The parts they had to use were free or reusable and it was only their time and tools.

A better approach in my oppinion is
How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply - Page 5

which works on motor oil as well.

Why break your engine when you can make fuel that is closer to what belongs in the diesel to begin with?

Another alternative is to run CNG into the intake under specific load conditions, you can save about 50% of the diesel and use 50% CNG which is much less expensive than diesel.

Good Luck
Ryan

Phantom 03-25-2012 02:18 AM

If you run anything other than diesel you should always run clean diesel for the last min or so to clean the injectors some and prevent them from clogging as easily.

kingsway 03-25-2012 07:05 AM

Heated vegetable oil in a VAG diesel
 
I've read reports of good results using a two tank system, and a heated fuel filter with clean vegetable oil... (Warm up the engine using diesel and switch back to diesel to purge the pump of the thicker oil before stopping)

Here in the UK you can use up to 2500 litres of veg oil annually without paying, or even registering for payment of duty. So I could potentially make a 30% saving each time I fill up - at the price I would pay for veg oil in a local supermarket!! Buying it wholesale could increase the savings a lot more!

I'm seriously thinking of trying it out... :rolleyes:

SwamiSalami 03-25-2012 10:52 PM

this is a fun topic.

Varn 03-25-2012 10:59 PM

kingsway when you fry your fish and chips do you have to count the excess grease that may end up in your tank? How do they know how many liters you put in your vehicle?

lowglider 03-29-2012 05:04 PM

You can always make a pyrolysis stove for worn out car tires and use the oil as diesel.

rmay635703 03-29-2012 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowglider (Post 296731)
You can always make a pyrolysis stove for worn out car tires and use the oil as diesel.

Or if you want clean diesel without creating massive sulphur stink do the same with styrofoam and #4/#5 plastic.

drmiller100 03-29-2012 10:01 PM

strangely enough, I invented M85, or at least the latest version of it and the process to do it.

Pretty easy.
Take 40 gallons of used motor oil or used ATF.
add 6 gallons of gasoline.
mix thoroughly.

filter through 5 micron filter, and run it in your truck.

we've got probably half million miles on ford 7.3's, a lot on dodge 12 valves, some dodge 24 valves.

not recommended for common rail or anything with a cat.

drmiller100 03-29-2012 10:02 PM

some people are all worried about the "dirt" in the oil.

Strange they will run dirty engine oil in their crank case, but won't run it to burn it.
Also, the black in oil is carbon.
Carbon burns quite well.
Coal. Soot. etc.

rmay635703 03-29-2012 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmiller100 (Post 296800)
some people are all worried about the "dirt" in the oil.

Strange they will run dirty engine oil in their crank case, but won't run it to burn it.
Also, the black in oil is carbon.
Carbon burns quite well.
Coal. Soot. etc.

Yeah but my 6.2 would probably have trouble burning a 50/50 mix of M85 and diesel, maybe with 2 tanks it could handle it.

drmiller100 03-29-2012 11:04 PM

the 6.2's run great on it. we ran it straight

. the later 6.5's (95 and later????) have an optical sensor in the injector pump which means they can't run it at all.

rmay635703 03-30-2012 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmiller100 (Post 296821)
the 6.2's run great on it. we ran it straight

. the later 6.5's (95 and later????) have an optical sensor in the injector pump which means they can't run it at all.

Run great at what temperature, with what lift pump/injection pump and for how long?

This goes against 5 years of WMO experiences of other users.

From what I read WMO when used at greater than 50% in a 6.2 causes the injectors to crud up from time to time.

I know this to be the case so how or what have you done to avoid this?

drmiller100 03-30-2012 11:30 AM

if your injectors are crudding up, then you have huge problems with obnoxious smoke at startup and at idle.

15 percent RUG, and absolutely NO gear oil. When you get the mix right, you get just a touch of abnormal smoke at startup, but then everything runs fine.

Also, if you run no RUG, when the injectors "crud up" the fix is to remove the injectors, clean out the hole, and reinstall them. usually about a 2 hour project the first time you do it.

Keep in mind, we are dropping the fuel cost from 4.50 a gallon to something like 55 cents with the w85.

UFO 03-30-2012 04:50 PM

Engine oil does not burn cleanly. You could pyrolyze it and run the distillate, but either way you are creating tons of air pollution just to save a few dollars in fuel.

Please be responsible.

drmiller100 03-30-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 297009)
Engine oil does not burn cleanly. You could pyrolyze it and run the distillate, but either way you are creating tons of air pollution just to save a few dollars in fuel.

Please be responsible.

what are you talking about? engine oil, diesel, gasoline, are all very closely related.

Heck the DEFINITION of diesel includes a mix of gasoline and engine oil.

Don't talk of things you do not know.

Please be responsible.

bandit86 03-31-2012 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmiller100 (Post 297079)
what are you talking about? engine oil, diesel, gasoline, are all very closely related.

Heck the DEFINITION of diesel includes a mix of gasoline and engine oil.

Don't talk of things you do not know.

Please be responsible.


Hence they call diesels "oil burners". Original diesels ran on coal and saw dust but the injection was problematic, hence the switch over to waste oil.

What is the optic sensor used for in the injection pump, something to do with a computer?

If injectors crud up why not run water in the intake an steam clean the cylinders?

mechman600 04-01-2012 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandit86 (Post 297330)
If injectors crud up why not run water in the intake an steam clean the cylinders?

This will not clean the crud from the internals of the injectors - mainly the plunger, spring and orifices. It typically happens with SVO or WVO that is insufficiently heated, or many other non-diesel fuels forced through it. Literally.

If you are playing around with a vehicle with a DPF, I HIGHLY recommend staying away from anything that contains synthetics like engine oils or ATF. They will fill the DPF with ash in no time flat. The ash will not regen out and you will be removing the DPF to clean or replace it.

Diesel_Dave 04-01-2012 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechman600 (Post 297371)
This will not clean the crud from the internals of the injectors - mainly the plunger, spring and orifices. It typically happens with SVO or WVO that is insufficiently heated, or many other non-diesel fuels forced through it. Literally.

If you are playing around with a vehicle with a DPF, I HIGHLY recommend staying away from anything that contains synthetics like engine oils or ATF. They will fill the DPF with ash in no time flat. The ash will not regen out and you will be removing the DPF to clean or replace it.

Agreed. Only thing to remember is that newer common rail fuel systems are much more sensitive to debris. The reason being is that the pressures are much highr (on the orger of 30,000 psi) that means the tolerances for all the moving parts are very tight and also, the actual spray holes of the injector are extremely small. If you take out a modern common rail injector and look at the tip, you litterally almost need a magnifying glass to see the spray holes.

mechman600 04-21-2012 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creasey (Post 302176)
Natural gas?

Westport HD :: Natural Gas Engines for Heavy-Duty Trucks

I have a hunch that LNG is the future. CNG is highly range limited, even with a large 4000 psi vessel. LNG can fit six times the natural gas in the same space, and it is safer because of the much lower pressure.

I did the mechanic training for the product in this link, and I gotta say, I am a believer.


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