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-   -   Diffuser design, per Lotus blog (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/diffuser-design-per-lotus-blog-27763.html)

Otto 12-15-2013 01:07 PM

Diffuser design, per Lotus blog
 
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/atta...o-005-copy.jpg
and
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/atta...o-006-copy.jpg

Major improvement by vertically extending outermost diffusers almost to ground level behind rear tires, otherwise apparently the flow past rear tires converges so as to bugger the flow closer to centerline such that it is poor.

Pls. read and consider, then comment.

wheelbender6 12-15-2013 05:08 PM

Interesting. I love the more recent generation of Lotus's with the Toyota engines. They have ditched the luxury items and concentrated on making the cars fast and fun.

Frank Lee 12-15-2013 05:08 PM

Those end fences are probably important to all diffusers to some degree, but I would think they are especially important for extra-steep diffusers such as the Lotus has, all the way to not very important for shallow diffusers like Hucho describes.

kach22i 12-15-2013 09:24 PM

The spinning air coming off the rear wheels interferes with the adjacent air fence/ diffuser/strake no matter the angle of incline.

The turbulence coming off those wheel wells can be seen in may CFD images and well as some smoke ones, including the ones on the second page of the article.

Otto 12-16-2013 01:33 AM

It wouldn't be hard to make a Prius-type rear wheel fairing (but larger and extending further aft)--a sort of end plate or flow fence that also acts as wheel fairing.

Perhaps the large Lotus end plate enables use of a much steeper diffuser angle?

BTW, anybody here read or know of Simon McBeath, the source of the latest Lotus mods?

kach22i 12-16-2013 07:39 AM

I just did an image search on the name "Simon McBeath", appears to be the author of several handbooks (5).

Simon McBeath - The Tuners Group
http://www.tunersgroup.com/images/large/large2008.jpg

JasonG 12-16-2013 07:42 AM

Impressive article.
The next mod on the Jetta is rear diffuser, looks like I med to think about tire find like the prius but larger.

aerohead 12-16-2013 04:48 PM

improvement
 
Alberto Morelli used the rear wheel fairings as the capping plates to enhance the performance of the diffuser of the 1978 Pininfarina/CNR research vehicle,killing two birds with one stone.

freebeard 12-16-2013 05:12 PM

Read and considered. There's airflow over the 'roof' of the difusser?

Here's my favorite end-plate solution:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...bonnevette.jpg
It suggests to me that the outer half of a rear-wheel spat is superfluous.

serialk11r 12-19-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 403205)
Here's my favorite end-plate solution:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...bonnevette.jpg
It suggests to me that the outer half of a rear-wheel spat is superfluous.

Had to comment, that Corvette is so beautiful in that configuration. :o I wonder if they had room to remove some more drag by extending the tail from the bottom as well.

Also I think in the Exige if you have the exhaust go out over the diffuser, then you remove the panel that blocks part of the engine bay, and you'd have some airflow due to the side intakes. Though, Lotus side intakes look horribly un-aerodynamic.

Otto 12-19-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 403205)
Read and considered. There's airflow over the 'roof' of the difusser?

Here's my favorite end-plate solution:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...bonnevette.jpg
It suggests to me that the outer half of a rear-wheel spat is superfluous.


How so superfluous?

Seems to me, it would be even better to fair the rear fender aft of the wheel by adding another surface flush with the trailing edge of the tire, curving back to meet the trailing edge of the aluminum plate: Essentially a curved V to fair the flow off the rear tire to gently join the under-car flow coming off the diffuser.

And, add a front air dam extending groundward flush with the leading edge of the front bumper cover, with no concavity under the nose, plus a ~4" splitter.

Thoughts?

freebeard 12-19-2013 04:02 PM

My understanding is there are limits imposed by the technical rules. For instance the endplates can be a specific size, they just rounded the corners on the maximal rectangle.

Otto 12-19-2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 403575)
My understanding is there are limits imposed by the technical rules. For instance the endplates can be a specific size, they just rounded the corners on the maximal rectangle.


Hmmm.

I wonder what (if any) improvement would be if the trailing edge of the diffuser plates had a serrated edge....

kach22i 12-20-2013 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto (Post 403624)
Hmmm.

I wonder what (if any) improvement would be if the trailing edge of the diffuser plates had a serrated edge....

The trailing edge treatments as now found on some jet aircraft engines and my own hovercraft leading edge splitter/diverter experiments back in 2008 were based on breaking up the sound nodes or peak frequencies which account for perceived loudness by distributing the sound energy across a wider spectrum and leveling it out some.

Sample:
Hovercraft - Experimental Skirt Project - Page 2 - Boat Design Forums
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...22i/Wave-1.jpg

The leading edge in water is a different matter.
http://www.gadgetreview.com/2012/05/the-quadrofoil.html
http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-conte...ft-650x487.jpg
http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-conte...-5-650x485.jpg

aerohead 12-20-2013 04:22 PM

thoughts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto (Post 403558)
How so superfluous?

Seems to me, it would be even better to fair the rear fender aft of the wheel by adding another surface flush with the trailing edge of the tire, curving back to meet the trailing edge of the aluminum plate: Essentially a curved V to fair the flow off the rear tire to gently join the under-car flow coming off the diffuser.

And, add a front air dam extending groundward flush with the leading edge of the front bumper cover, with no concavity under the nose, plus a ~4" splitter.

Thoughts?

It would be a much improved design,but the SCTA rulebook wouldn't allow such mods for this racing class.It's akin to NASCAR's body template regulations.

freebeard 12-20-2013 05:31 PM

Quote:

How so superfluous?
In theory, you are correct. But how much would you gain? IMHO the wheel well turbulence, denied entance to the wake, would spill outward and at the rear edge of the end-plate would be mangled (flattened) and mixed in there. Simpler and it doesn't compromise the difusser.

Then there's all that salt and chunks of tread that won't build up.

Re: The rules—that was the only car I saw that had fences that weren't longitudinal, which is suposed to be a requirement. But it passed tech inspection.

kach22i -- ???

Thenorm 12-21-2013 05:09 PM

wheel wells are high pressure areas, it seems good (At face value) to leave an open path rearward to let that air into the low pressure wake while not letting it adversely disturb the air flowing through the diffuser. I read one study about ducting air from the rear wheel well out through the trunk area into the rear wake.

Otto 12-21-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenorm (Post 403813)
wheel wells are high pressure areas, it seems good (At face value) to leave an open path rearward to let that air into the low pressure wake while not letting it adversely disturb the air flowing through the diffuser. I read one study about ducting air from the rear wheel well out through the trunk area into the rear wake.

Hmmm.

Friend of mine with a Corvair thought the wheel well to be a low pressure area, so made a conduit from the engine bay to evacuate hot engine bay air. Worked, did not flow in reverse, he said.

So, wheel bays high pressure or low pressure?

kach22i 12-23-2013 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 403717)
kach22i -- ???

I was addressing Otto's question based on the assumption he and others had knowledge of the now commonly used noise reduction used on jets.

News, Current Space updates, Rockets,Constellation,Satellites,Space Research,: space shuttle orbiter
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1q-d5V0emL...le+orbiter.jpg
Quote:

A jet engine noise reduction device called a chevron, now in use on commercial airliners, is a good example of a NASA-developed technology that climbed the TRL scale to success, said Fay Collier, manager of NASA's Environmentally Responsible Aviation Project.

Chevrons are the saw-tooth pattern that can be seen on the trailing edges of some jet engine nozzles. As hot air from the engine core mixes with cooler air blowing through the engine fan, the jagged edges serve to smooth the mixing, which reduces turbulence that creates noise.

The new Boeing 787 is among the most modern jets relying on chevrons to reduce engine noise levels, sporting chevrons on the nacelles, or fan housings. The Boeing 747-8 has chevrons on both the nacelles and inner core engine nozzles.
the jagged edges serve to smooth the mixing, which reduces turbulence that creates noise.

What that description fails to explain is that varying distances expand the noise energy over a wider spectrum (via traveling distance) thereby taking the loudest peak down. It is after-all our hearing perception which indicates loudness by the highest frequency peak within our hearing spectrum.

Otto was imaging wheel pants or wheel fairings with a saw-tooth (serrated edge) pattern.

The only advantage I know of is because of sound (or cutting).

http://weaponsedge.com/how-to-sharpen-a-knife/
http://www.knifedealsplus.com/media/SERRATED-EDGE.gif

Question answered?

In nature there is the bat wing. Has more to do with bone structure and tensioned membranes than aerodynamic advantages I believe.

http://krisallegra.blogspot.com/2012...g-helping.html
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YG3SeRI2_6...00/anthro1.JPG

If the bat's wing shape cuts down on sound so that it can silently hunt insects, then all the better I guess.

On a car, tire and engine sound is going to heavily outweigh aerodynamic sound in my opinion.

freebeard 12-23-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Question answered?
It was a good answer, but the question sucked. :) Better stated it would have been, " Wuts a Quadrofo?" But I liked the picture of the serrated bypass. Much better than the line drawing I've got squirreled away.

Bats are quieter than owls?

Thenorm 12-23-2013 01:05 PM

nah, owl wins. an owl is so quiet, even it can hear itself

serialk11r 12-23-2013 02:33 PM

I walked past a Tesla Model S today and noticed the rear end seems to follow the "philosophy" described here. Strakes extending down from the diffuser where the inside of the wheel is, and the bumper actually goes inward behind the rear wheels. Food for thought.

kach22i 12-23-2013 05:35 PM

Great big photo of that Tesla -S detail here:
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...w-at-track.jpg
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...w-at-track.jpg

bitmap 12-25-2013 01:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Speaking of Model S, here is a proper picture of that diffuser :)

chefdave 12-25-2013 06:42 PM

ummmmmm food for thought. if i could do something similar on my motorhome would hope for more stability in crosswinds. dont suffer from rear end lift if anything rear end lift would benefit handling but saving fuel and being more stable in cross winds would pay bigger divdends. all this will have to wait until i have built my new exhaust. details on idea for exhaust will be posted in appropriate forum.:thumbup:


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