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NiHaoMike 05-05-2009 01:52 AM

DIY hybrid (detailed noodling of crankshaft-mated electric assist method)
 
I have an idea for a DIY hybrid conversion:
* Start with a car with a small engine and a manual transmission, maybe a small pickup truck.
* Add a motor (a small forklift motor, perhaps?) and attach it to the crankshaft with a motorcycle-type chain or a strong belt.
* Since brushed DC motors don't work very well for regen, regen will be implemented with a heavy duty alternator modified to operate at the hybrid system voltage and with a control signal from the control electronics.
* The original alternator will be replaced with the modified one and a DC/DC converter used to keep the 12v system working.
* The electrical drive system will be under independent control (Insight manual-style) to allow the driver to choose gas or electric power.
* A relay will be used to turn off the engine for EOC and EV mode.
* A panel with switches and indicators will be added to allow the driver to manually manipulate the operation of the hybrid system.
* Since it's a hybrid, the electrical system does not have to be very powerful. 96v or even 48v should be enough.
* An additional spring will be added to the accelerator to provide a clear indication of the most efficient engine operating point, above which power should be obtained from the electrical system.
* Since the crankshaft speed will vary greatly, run the power steering from a motor (maybe a vacuum cleaner motor?) under electronic control. The power assist will be greatest when stopped (maybe indirectly sense load using current to save energy?) and ramped down as speed increases. (For what it's worth, a 120v vacuum cleaner motor will start to rotate with just 12v, so it might perform well enough at 48 or 96v for our application.)

The most complex part will likely be the control electronics. It will, for instance:
* Be based mostly around hardware for easy development and reliability.
* Coordinate the transition between gas and electric power. The car could start on electric power alone, and if the driver chooses, the engine powers up once it reaches a minimum operating RPM.
* Manage the main battery pack. In normal mode, it will restrict the amount of power, but in EV mode, it will allow as much as the hardware is capable of. That is done to reduce resistance losses in the batteries.
* If the brake pedal is depressed, disable electric assist and maybe automatically regen at the optimum rate, while allowing the driver to fine tune the amount with the control lever.
* In EV mode, maybe tap into the TPS to allow the accelerator pedal to work.

Some issues are:
* Would turning the engine at low speeds be a problem? Maybe an auxiliary oil pump should be used to ensure lubrication at all speeds? (How does the new Insight solve that problem?)
* Would the engine have enough friction to greatly affect EV mode performance?
* Would the motor have enough friction to greatly affect normal (hybrid) mode efficiency? Maybe a one way clutch can solve this?

Daox 05-05-2009 08:41 AM

It sounds like a pretty descent setup. Very early IMA like. Those engines didn't have an EV mode. I'd think mainly due to engine drag. The clutch idea may be a problem because it would have to handle some pretty high torque at low rpms.

metroschultz 05-05-2009 11:44 AM

Put your motor after the trans, and use the trans in neut to remove engine friction from the equation.
The engine can be OFF and the truck will drive under electric power until you decide to use gas. No oiling worries either.
For short trips you would use electric alone and for longer trips you could switch to gas when pack voltage got too low,
Then use the gas engine to charge the batteries while you were on your way to Grandmas house.
Once you reach Grandmas, you then have a full pack to run around town and get the can of cranberry sauce you forgot.

theunchosen 05-05-2009 11:56 PM

Nice Metro! Very good idea

bennelson 12-05-2009 10:50 AM

Other hybrid ideas could include using a 4-wheel drive vehicle with the original engine going to two wheels, and an electric motor added to the other.
That would be a "thru-the-road" hybrid.

Another variation would be a rear-wheel drive vehicle with the drive-shaft modified for an electric motor to be put in-line with it.
NetGain (NetGain Motors, Inc. Home) has a system like this designed for automatic transmission pickup trucks, which uses an electronic box connected to the OBD2 for controlling the throttle.

If the same idea was applied to a manual transmission S10 or Ranger, it could be a very efficient vehicle. I am not sure what the best was of controlling the throttle would be though.

One that I have thought about for a while would be something like a 4x4 Geo Tracker. It has a reasonably small engine for good fuel economy. The motor would be hooked to the other two wheels opposite of the engine powered ones.

I don't know what all the details would be for actually attaching the motor (I'm not much of a 4-wheel guy...) but it could be a cool little vehicle.

andylaurence 12-18-2009 06:58 AM

That NetGain solution looks quite good. It's a shame it doesn't do regen though. I wonder what the benefit would be of using it purely as a regen system. By this, I mean not using it as a PHEV. Using the same motor but super capacitors for short-term storage. A controller would be needed that, for example, instigated regen at 0% throttle and added power at >15% throttle. Quite simple logic and would recoup some lost energy. The idea being that you get similar/better short-term performance to a faster model, with slightly better (?) economy than the base model you start with.

Taking a BMW 318d as an example, an extra 100bhp brings it up to similar power to the 335d, yet economy would still be as per the 318d. 6kg of Maxwell supercaps will give you enough juice for 100bhp for ~1.5 seconds. Alternatively, A123 lithium cells will give you 100bhp in 23kg for ~2 minutes, so make that ~1 minute for 50% DoD.

Thoughts? Any ideas how you'd get a controller that would work in that fashion? Admittedly, I'm unlikely to try it out!

RobertSmalls 12-18-2009 10:32 AM

To get the most miles out of every kWh and gallon, you want the car to be as small and aerodynamic as possible, so hatchback > pickup. You should pick a car that can be converted to manual power steering, since DIY electric power steering is reinventing the wheel. Manual brakes are a bonus.

You should read about Mike Dabrowski's DIY through-the-road hybrid, which is a hybrid of neighborhood electric vehicle and 1st gen Insight. It's simple, easily reversed, and if something goes wrong with it, the car's original powertrain is unaffected.

You should carefully consider what you want to do with regenerative braking, and how often you'll use it. Hypermilers who have the road to themselves seldom brake. I, OTOH, use regen in traffic and highway offramps every day. The regenerative braking on the Insight is 10KW. It'll have to do, but I wish it were stronger/faster.

Quote:

* Would the engine have enough friction to greatly affect EV mode performance?
Yes. Just look at how fast your car slows down in DFCO vs EOC.

jamesqf 12-18-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 148610)
You should carefully consider what you want to do with regenerative braking, and how often you'll use it. Hypermilers who have the road to themselves seldom brake.

That's true if you drive mostly in the flatlands. Those of us who live where there are significant hills tend to use the brakes a lot more.

I'd really appreciate a hybrid that had enough battery capacity to collect the excess energy from a typical (for me) descent of 2500-4500 ft, and use it on the uphill. (The Insight will recharge completely in about 1500 ft of 6% grade.)

brucey 12-18-2009 03:55 PM

Why not just use an AC motor to begin with and get regen automatically?

Something similar to what you described has been done by coyote X here I believe, on his metro. But I don't think its finished.

DonR 12-18-2009 04:19 PM

Throttle control
Motor controller reads the Throttle position sensor. In EV it won't squirt any fuel into engine. In ICE mode it wont apply any voltage to motor. More importantly you don't have to figure out where to mount it.

AC
AC motors like to run at a specific RPM. It may be desirable to mount this before the transmission. I would think you would need a fairly stout power inverter to generate AC, but don't know boo about them.

Don

Funny 12-19-2009 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 148610)
I, OTOH, use regen in traffic and highway offramps every day. The regenerative braking on the Insight is 10KW. It'll have to do, but I wish it were stronger/faster.

If you want it stronger, just modify the inputs...


FROM JULIAN EDGAR'S AUTOSPEED ARTICLE:
How to Electronically Modify Your Car: Part 13

"Unique Modification

A good example of the modification approach covered here was when I modified the regen braking on a Toyota Prius hybrid. As far as I know, this mod was a world first.

Regen braking occurs when the car’s electric motor becomes a generator, pushing juice back into the high voltage battery and so slowing the car. I wanted to make regen work more strongly...

Read More Here

And here is the first part in the series, which is very interesting, in my opinion, and could help a few of the folks with regenerative braking...

Good luck.

RobertSmalls 12-19-2009 01:49 PM

The Prius varies regen with brake pedal displacement. On the Insight, it's all or nothing. IOW, Honda already did that mod for me.

Funny 12-21-2009 09:08 AM

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification. I thought all regenerative hybrids were similar in progressive regeneration, incrementally-linked to braking.

MD2000 02-03-2010 12:44 AM

Its important to be clear when you say AC motors have regen.
All AC motors are not created equal.
The AC induction motors on your table saw will not regen, and are made to run in syncronus with the 60HZ line frequency.
Hybrid cars use permanent magnet brushless AC motors.
The permanent magnets on the rotor of the brushless AC motors are natural generators whenever they are turning.
They are synchronous motors, so to speed them up or slow them down you change the 3 phase AC drive frequency.
Neutral
The 3 phase drive frequency needs to exactly match the voltage and phase of the 3 phase generated back EMF voltage for there to be no power going into or out of the spinning motor/generators.
Drive
To make the motor drive, you increase the frequency of the drive signal, so the drive signal leads the back EMF signal from the motor generator, and the voltage difference accelerates the rotor to try and catch up.
Regen
To get regen, you make the drive signal lag the back EMF signal and current flows back from the motor/generator into the batteries.
This type of motor has a high flat torque output curve, wide operating rpm range, and very good efficiency.

The prices of the variable speed drive controllers is coming down.
Kelly High Power Brushless DC Motor Controller

One last confusing point, Brushless AC motors(BLAC) and brushless DC motors (BLDC)are pretty much the same thing, as you cannot make a permanant magnet spin inside of coils without generating a rotating AC magnetic field.

When you have a brush motor, the copper commutator changes the DC to AC, so in practice there are no DC motors, they all run on AC internally.

NiHaoMike 02-03-2010 12:43 PM

Quote:

The AC induction motors on your table saw will not regen, and are made to run in syncronus with the 60HZ line frequency.
Actually, if you spin an induction motor faster than its synchronous speed, it will regen. (In practice, that occurs regularly in escalators going down.) The proper reactive impedance must be supplied to the motor using capacitors, the grid, or a special inverter.
Induction Generator

orange4boy 02-04-2010 01:46 AM

The Toyota Previa is a shoe in for IMA because it has a second driveshaft going forward that could be replaced with a motor and a bunch of batteries. It's function is to drive the PS pump, alternator and the A/C so you'd have to live without those or fab the motor into the shaft.

That and it has a pretty good CD to start with. .34 It has great modding potential. Mine is now better than my stock 2003 Prius which is listed at .29

I've been dreaming of this for a while. Time and money.

spacer 03-03-2012 05:41 PM

This seems a lot like an idea I had for my '86 C10 pickup. The previous owner did a real hack job on the wiring when he dropped in the current 350, so at some point I'm going to yank it all and build it up proper.
Since I liked the I6 in my ol' trailblazer so much... it beats the power and torque of the truck's current 350, while being considerably lighter and easier on fuel, I was thinking about grabbing one for a few hundred bucks (yeah, I'm familiar with the wiring harness challenges) and dropping it in.
That's a good start, but then it'd leave some room for possible improvement.

It isn't a 4x4, so I don't already have a front drive to play with. Darn, but I like this truck so I've made that bed already... unless maybe another means of driving the front wheels presents itself, maybe hub motors?
I'm not worried about extended running on battery power, just taking up some of the load when accelerating that much mass, so I don't think there'd be much need for a huge amount of juice. I'd still probably go for 120v, though... if it were do-able.

The other option, which I might have mentioned in another thread (my memory sucks sometimes), was a simple version of the hydraulic hybrid concept, with a manually operated lever to take up the acceleration load. Pressure would be restored to the system with every application of the brakes... adjusted so that minor slowing could be accomplished with hydraulic system drag.

Due to its very nature, I don't think it'll ever approach some other vehicles in efficiency, but this would be more for my own education and enjoyment than anything else. Oh... I'd certainly have it equipped for plug-in charging. Might as well get some juice from the grid to start the day. :)

Then again.... diesel may still be an option...


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