The Dream of the Great American Road Trip
 

I have this crazy dream of doing something similar to what these people are doing in the trailer for this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LggUjXnvZk

It's a documentary about a road trip across India in a three wheeled auto rickshaw.

My dream is to design and build my own three wheeled light electric vehicle and travel across America while documenting the journey.

My question is: Does anyone here know the laws about driving vehicles that have a top speed of 30 mph on interstate freeways or on their shoulders? I often see cyclists traveling the shoulders of interstate freeways. I wonder if it is possible with a light electric vehicle too. Anyone here know?

For anyone interested I've compiled a bunch of notes and inspiration for my dream three wheeled vehicle.


My Dream Three Wheeled Electric Vehicle

I haven't sketched the vehicle yet, but I have descriptions of it's various elements.


-Three wheels: One steerable, drive wheel in the front and two smaller wheels in the rear aka delta configuration (inspired by New Map Solyto Solyto link).

http://www.3wheelers.com/solyto.jpg
New Map Solyto

-Two anti-rollover outrigger skids on either side of the front wheel that don't touch the road. If the vehicle ever begins to overturn the anti-rollover outrigger skids will keep the vehicle upright. I'm choosing skids instead of wheels because I want this vehicle to be considered a motorcycle for regulation and registration purposes.

-AC to DC inverter: For plug in charging from the grid

-Electricity storage: Ultracapacitors. Multiple advantages over batteries: Ultracapacitors can be fully charged and discharged whereas many batteries have been designed to only use a small percentage of their capacity to prolong their lifespan. Ultracapacitors can be charged and discharged an unlimited number of times whereas batteries can only be charged and discharged a few thousand or few hundred times. Ultracapacitors do not develop a memory whereas some batteries do develop a memory. Ultracapacitors can be charged in a few minutes whereas batteries that store the same amount of power would take hours. Ultracapacitors weigh a fraction of the weight of batteries that store the same amount of power. However, ultracapacitors do have some disadvantages. Ultracapacitors are currently very expensive as compared to batteries. Some technologies are still being developed to make ultracapacitors easier to use in this application.

-Solar: At some time in the future I'd like to convert the vehicle to solar using high efficiency thin film solar cells. Considering spray-on solar cells (i.e. Spark Solar Spray-On Solar Panels article at TreeHugger.com)

-Motor: Electric motor mounted over the front chain driven wheel with freewheel and moped automatic transmission (inspired by New Map Solyto)
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimag...%201.jpg1..jpg
New Map Solyto front wheel and motor

-Honeycomb wheels (inspired by Resilient Technologies and Wisconsin-Madison's Polymer Engineering Center Airless Tire). The idea is to have tires that don't go flat. This also means no more added weight of a spare tire.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/me...4F3C45F4_1.jpg
Airless Tire

-Low rolling resistance tire treads. These will increase efficiency.

-Drum brakes

-Front coil shock absorber suspension (inspired by New Map Solyto)

-Rear leaf suspension springs (inspired by New Map Solyto)

-Regenerative braking: Considering rear generator/dynamo hub(s) (Shimano Dyno Hubs Shimano Nexus Generator Hubs)
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/huh11.jpg
Shimano Nexus Generator Hub

-Downhill regeneration: Considering rear generator/dynamo hub(s) (Shimano Dyno Hubs Shimano Nexus Generator Hubs)

-Aerodynamic enclosed body with removable rear wheel skirts: Considering a partial kammback or boat tail

-Smooth under tray for improved aerodynamics

-Smooth wheel ring hubcaps for improved aerodynamics. Like the following picture, but with a big hole in the hubcaps.
http://ecomodder.com/imgs/mods-list/28.jpg
Smooth hubcaps

-Aerodynamic deflectors forward of tires that also act as skids. Skids allow the wheels to climb onto and over obstacles (like speed bumps) at a lower angle.

-Boat tails behind tires, under the car for improved aerodynamics

-Body panels and doors made from soy bean based closed cell foam reinforced with strips of bamboo. This material will add to the vehicles safety. (inspired by Lon Ballard's Spira SPIRA4U.COM) http://www.gizmag.com/pictures/lrg/s...-100mpg-12.jpg
Spira three wheeled foam vehicle

-Bamboo frame: Bamboo is stronger, lighter and vastly less expensive than steel. Some frame sections will be fabricated with regular hollow bamboo. Frame sections that require more strength will be fabricated from solid iron bamboo. Iron bamboo is a species of bamboo that is solid all the way through and much stronger than hollow bamboo. Bamboo will be shaped while it grows using molds. Bamboo grows several inches a day so the parts can be grown in a relatively less amount of time than other plants. (inspired by Calfee bamboo bikes CalfeeDesign, Pooktre shaping trees to grow into furniture Pooktre Tree Shapers and Viking ships. Viking ship builders would find trees that were growing in the shapes they needed for making ship parts. Hurstwic: Viking Ships)
http://www.calfeedesign.com/images/C...MTB466x406.jpg
Bamboo Bike


http://www.pooktre.com/images/index/...n_chair_01.jpg
Shaped tree chair

-Two seater, side by side seat configuration (inspired by New Map Solyto, Zap car ZAP! Electric Vehicles). This seating configuration is sometimes called a "social configuration" in bicycling terms. I know tandem configuration would be more aerodynamic and more stable, but I want to share the experience and conversation with the other rider.
http://www.thegreensceneev.com/zap_x...ectric_car.jpg
Zap! Xebra

-Passenger seat is removable

-Bamboo or rattan framed wicker seats

-Fabric covered truck bed

-Two removable back benches along the walls

-Handlebar steering and throttle (inspired by Auto Rickshaws Auto rickshaw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, RTM Tango RTM TANGO). Handlebars with a twist throttle weigh less than a steering wheel and accelerator pedal.
http://www.merinews.com/upload/thumb...02899_at_t.JPG
An Auto Rickshaw

http://www.gekgo.com/images/tt-TestPicture3.jpg
RTM Tango

-Foot brake pedal instead of hand brakes (inspired by RTM Tango). I am more accustomed to using my foot for braking than my fingers. If I'm ever in a situation where I need to brake instantly, I would rely more on my car driving skills than motorcycle/bicycling skills.
http://www.gekgo.com/images/Inside_3.jpg
RTM Tango interior

-All LED lighting


I'd love to hear any comments you have on this adventure.

Developing new materials will keep you in the garage until you forget why you started. I'd recommend two front wheels, because the aero works much better, and you can steer under hard braking. Skids will save a delta from overturning, but not from going straight into a collision.

Hi Bicycle Bob. Thanks for the reply.

What new materials are you referring to? I'm looking through my post and the only new material that I wrote about was the spray on solar cells, but I'm not developing that material and stated that I would consider a solar upgrade in the future, meaning sometime after the vehicle is built.


I've considered the two front wheel configuration for quite some time. And every time I find myself leaning (pun haha) towards the two front wheel configuration I keep remembering the Zap! electric cars and motorcycle trikes and meter maid three wheelers and the millions of auto rickshaws in Asia.


Thanks for your opinions. I look forward to any other comments you or the other ecomodders have.

I was thinking of the foam and bamboo panels, but on closer reading, it sounds more like an assembly. Still, you are specifying a lot of cutting edge stuff, and that tends to take a lot of time to buy and learn to use well. Those wheels have had a lot of development poured into them, but still have major issues that have kept them off the market. I love bamboo, too, but it is not easy to work with. You might want to read "Structures" or one of J.E. Gordon's other books to help save weight by canny design and appropriate use of materials.

Hi again Bicycle Bob, Thanks again for the great reply!


Yeah! Doesn't it sound exciting? That's all part of the adventure. Figuring out things work together to achieve a goal. And when the actual travel part of the adventure starts I can say that I built this thing with my own two hands and a lot of advice from cool people like you.


I am Definitely going to find this book. I've been wanting reference material on building with appropriate materials.

Thanks again!

plenty of low priced books by J.E. Gordon on eBay. Buy used books to save a couple of trees...
Ebay Link

Two front wheels is definitely the way to go! Much safer and more stable -- any combination of downhill turning and/or braking at speed will be nasty in a 1 front wheel set up. Remember -- you cannot lean with 3 wheels!

I like airless tires, and regenerative braking -- you have to be able absorb the power, and you have to have friction brakes for backup.

J. Balwin, tech editor for Whole Earth, says that it takes 3 tries to get to something you want to use. The first prototype illustrates the big flaws, and the third one is getting close to what you originally intended, after some practise making the bits. I like to take big bites in design work too, but that just gets me to some new features for the 3rd version. Car Cycle includes details on a front suspension geometry that uses offset for trail instead of caster angle, which turned out fine, despite no prior art. The integrated suspension was fine, too. It was only intended as a test bed, but would have gone a lot farther except for not being planned for easy maintenance. I saved a lot of weight on a similar body for another chassis, though, probably less than half the original's weight.

Tippy delta trikes are much safer where they are common, and traffic patterns meet their limitations, although road safety in those areas is appalling by North American standards. Have a look at the astronomical insurance rates for Harley trikes over here.

Re: freeway shoulders. In "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," Robert Persig reveals his way to plan a cross-country trip. On a map, squiggles are good. That means hills and scenery. The best riding is on a road that goes from nowhere to nowhere, with an alternate route that gets there faster. The kids wave at you, and the adults have time to chat. Always plan on answering questions for five minutes on your way into a store.

Okay. More than one person is suggesting the two wheels in front (tadpole) design for safety reasons. I'm willing to go that route, but would you all help me figure this out? I'd like to weigh the pros and cons of both three wheeled designs.

ONE DRIVE WHEEL IN FRONT, TWO WHEELS IN BACK (DELTA CONFIGURATION)
PROS
-Lighter than a tadpole configuration due to lighter steering mechanism.

CONS
-Unsafe in braking turns.


TWO STEERING WHEELS IN FRONT, ONE DRIVE WHEEL IN BACK (TADPOLE CONFIGURATION)
PROS
-Safer in braking turns.

CONS
-Prone to overturning as compared to equivalent 4 wheeled vehicles.
-Heavier than a delta configuration due to a heavier steering mechanism.



Would you all help me to add to the pros and cons of each of these configurations? I will update this list with your contributions as they come in.

Thanks

The steering linkage per se can be very light. Most deltas have a heavy structure to take forces to and from the steering head, which is cantilevered twice as far from the contact patch, on average. There are whole pages of tradeoffs to consider.

We can change anything
but we can never "change
just one thing."

I second (or third) that. Also, in this state (Nevada) the only places where it's legal to bike on freeway shoulders is where there's no practical alternate route, as for instance with I80 west of here.

Another delta "con" is that they can be lengthened to haul unbelievable loads without too much concern about balancing the load.

And that weekend racer aspect - looks like an arrow: dragster-type. That flurry of Harley Davidson and Corvair/VW choppers made 2 rear wheel trikes popular using that wide rear/ thin front appearance popular.

Then came safety problems- Harleys and even Honda ATVs put a shadow on all trikes. My EV is a delta configuration trike. But my Human Power and EV trike is a tadpole; far safer steering and braking than my delta trike!

Thankfully, neither my delta or tadpole have overturned - yet, but both are extremely heavy.

Oh, really? I guess the Lean Machine, Venture One, and all those tilting trikes were my imagination! :D

Visual imagination too!;)

Leaners are keen, but our lad here wants a sociable. BTW, Wayneburg, do you have a co-driver in mind?
One trade-off is that if you stick with a tadpole, I'd be willing to have a go at designing a frame, suspension, and steering linkage for you in bamboo+epoxy+'glass.
Another caveat I have reluctantly adopted is that if one is planning to go quickly in a light, streamlined vehicle, all the dense bits belong in the nose, for directional stability in crosswinds. Craig Vetter is improving his ride by bolting lead in the nose, but there are better ways to deal with weight, given a clean sheet of paper. Trikes are less sensitive to crosswinds than bikes, of course, but the idea is to cross a patch of black ice in a strong crosswind, and move over without rotation. It reduces what AJ Foyt called the "pucker factor."

Does a Segway count as a light electric vehicle ? :D

I think so:10 MPH }{ Segway roadtrip across America }{ A Documentary Film

It's been done on a lawn tractor too: Across America in 80 days ... on a lawnmower - smh.com.au

Studying those stories might shed light on route options/problems/solutions.

This is not a "side by side" sociable, but supposedly tilts (Gizmag Urban Jet trike article)

There's nothing wrong with a single front wheel trike. Get the CG and whatnot right and it's performance parameters will be more than adequate for the speed range of this vehicle.

After doing a bit of research and comments from members here, I am now going with the tadpole configuration. The reason is my co-driver, which will be my wife. I will take all precautions to ensure her safety, so if that means changing the wheel configuration, then so be it.

Bicycle Bob, as for your offer to design a frame, suspension, and steering linkage, I would be much obliged to accept your offer. Just tell me what I need to do. Thanks!

Once again, I pee into the wind. OK :rolleyes:

Either configuration can be made suitable.

Well if you're going to be peeing into the wind might I suggest an umbrella that can withstand 70 mph wind. :)
http://design.spotcoolstuff.com/wp-c...umbrella-1.jpg
Senz Umbrellas | the storm umbrella | windproof up to wind force 10 - Home

Maybe this video would be better suited to this board. Watch at the 1 minute and 47 second mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFzOwq5PldQ#t=1m47s

Did I just derail my own thread? :p

I hear you. But, I want to have the riders sit in an upright position, like in a golf cart. This would put the center of gravity pretty high which would ad to a short wheel base delta configuration's instability. Do you know of a way to make a short wheel base delta configuration with a high center of gravity more stable? My solution was to put anti-roll over outrigger skids or wheels, but that doesn't seem to do it.

Hahaha! Your last sentence was right on though! *can be* Those Tuk-tuks all over Asai or India vow for that- delta all the way. They have worked for all these years.

My delta started shimmying at 45 mph. It used to go 50 mph, so it could be made to feel safe again I suppose.

Are you planning to grow your own bamboo to shape? Can you send a dimensioned sketch of the humans, wheels, and ground for the new layout? You can overlap shoulders to save a bit of frontal area. What's the capacitor weight and motor size if you have them in mind? Do you want fold-down camping? How much gear? How much off-road ability? What else have you built - does your shop have tooling already?

I'll pm you soon.

Good call going with tadpole. those ZAP! Xebra's are very controllable... on absolutely dry and clean pavement. I hit a patch of ice in a friend's Xebra and had a hell of a time explaining why the front bumper was in the back seat.

~Jim

Am I missing a message? I know, nailing those few items on a sketch pretty well defines the vehicle. I should add that it should balance well with a full load, or only the driver, or else minimum ballast has to be specified. (Driving a Peterbilt without a trailer is a special skill, called "bobtailing.") The other bear is finding tires in the interesting load range with low rolling resistance and reasonable durability. Michelin has a nice one, but they only provide it for solar race events.