EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   The Lounge (https://ecomodder.com/forum/lounge.html)
-   -   Early Tests Pin Toyota Accidents on Drivers (more evidence now, same conclusion) (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/early-tests-pin-toyota-accidents-drivers-more-evidence-13881.html)

Daox 07-14-2010 02:24 PM

Early Tests Pin Toyota Accidents on Drivers (more evidence now, same conclusion)
 
Interesting...

Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents - WSJ.com

jedi_sol 07-14-2010 02:48 PM

Ha, the TRUTH is not ageist or sexist, the security camera clearly shows the brake lights did not illuminate until AFTER the crash.

cfg83 07-14-2010 04:46 PM

Daox -

I think we read the same conclusion on another thread, aka the Audi example. In almost all cases, the problem exists in the car, but the number of *reports* of the problem is maybe X-times more than the actual occurance :

Quote:

Toyota says its own downloads of data recorders have found evidence of sticky pedals and pedal entrapment as well as driver error, which is characterized by no evidence of the brakes being depressed during impact.
For the record, I've made the same type of mistake, but nobody got hurt. I was driving my wife's automatic. My left foot went to depress the clutch, which didn't exist. But the brake pedal is wide so it is in the same place as the clutch. I came to a screeching stop. My wife thought we were rear-ended. However, I was lucky because we were driving slow and no one was following close enough to rear-end us.

CarloSW2

SentraSE-R 07-14-2010 05:14 PM

The truth is, there are a lot of incompetent drivers out there - in Toyotas and every other vehicle under the sun.

Weather Spotter 07-14-2010 05:25 PM

thought so, driver error makes more sense then a defect, else more people would have had the issue.

Frank Lee 07-14-2010 06:02 PM

I clearly remembered the Audi debacle and the Toyota thing is deja vu all over again. :rolleyes:

Patrick 07-14-2010 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 183929)

No surprise there. I hope the GM-backed congressmen are happy they got their pound of PR flesh from Toyota.

Clev 07-14-2010 08:21 PM

And no doubt we'll all now get government-mandated full-on records-for-a-week "black boxes" in our cars thanks to these idiots.

McTimson 07-15-2010 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 183954)
For the record, I've made the same type of mistake, but nobody got hurt. I was driving my wife's automatic. My left foot went to depress the clutch, which didn't exist. But the brake pedal is wide so it is in the same place as the clutch. I came to a screeching stop. My wife thought we were rear-ended. However, I was lucky because we were driving slow and no one was following close enough to rear-end us.

CarloSW2

I did the same thing a few months ago. I was about to go down a big hill on the highway, and wanted to shift to neutral in our automatic Yaris, and my left foot naturally pressed down. Scared the **** out of both of us, until I realized that I didn't have to do anything with my feet to shift to neutral. Just a force of habit from driving a manual for too long.

Anyway, I'm not too surprised at the results so far. The floor mat being stuck is a serious issue, no matter how easy it is to fix, but the accelerator problems sounded like BS. There were a lot of news stories about crashes and accidents for a few weeks while the story was hot, and then it died down. Even with Toyota issuing the 'recalls', you would think there would still be plenty of people with more accidents if it was an actual problem with the pedals.

gone-ot 07-15-2010 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clev (Post 183987)
And no doubt we'll all now get government-mandated full-on records-for-a-week "black boxes" in our cars thanks to these idiots.

...this is already underway via the 'proposed' OBD-III and California, who want ON-Star-like tracking and monitoring capabilities for all vehicles in realtime!

...and, the insurance companies are jumping on this bandwagon too, looking into realtime accident "discovery and blame affixation" as well as driving (speeding and milage) monitoring...the more or faster you drive, the more insurance-$$$ they'll charge you.

Daox 08-11-2010 02:15 PM

The investigation continues, and still more indication that its driver fault.

U.S. Study Indicates Driver Error in Many Toyota Crashes - WSJ.com

gone-ot 08-11-2010 05:28 PM

...not to be taking sides, but the the word "MANY" does equate to mean "ALL" the last time I checked Websters.

Daox 08-11-2010 05:33 PM

Toyota has already admitted there was a problem with the floor mats possibly sticking the gas pedal as well as the pedal being slow to return to the default position in certain cases. They have issued recalls for these issues already. I believe the article states this. This investigation is just showing that those instances were very few and the main problem is the drivers.

shockware 08-12-2010 03:41 AM

I believe Toyota wouldn't recall all those cars if there wasn't anything wrong with them. They recalled them for a reason.

user removed 08-12-2010 07:44 AM

I am not taking either side in this one.

I wonder what the percentage of incidents in Toyota's was in relation to other brands and their different models.

Before all the hoopla started and people climbed on the blame Toyota bandwagon.

I hear and see almost every day where people short change you with money or other services, and they claim it was an "accident" or an "honest mistake".

If that were true then it would not be that you are ALWAYS given less than you deserve.

If you are always getting less change or service than you paid for, it is not any accident or honest mistake, its fraud and theft.

Toyota got the "big dog" arrogance attitude that GM had in the 50s and 60s and pressured all their suppliers to cut costs or else. The inevitable result of such an attitude is you find the weak link in design and manufacture of the many dependent systems that must interact correctly for a modern very complicated car to function properly.

I wonder what the difference (if any) in the percentage of incidents were comparing the older mechanical throttle linkage models to the more recent throttle by wire models.

Before all the media attention made it the norm to blame the manufacturer.

I wonder if we will ever know the real truth, but if not a pre media hype comparison of consumer complaints and reported and confirmed incidents would point a rational person in the right direction.

regards
Mech

Daox 08-12-2010 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shockware (Post 188501)
I believe Toyota wouldn't recall all those cars if there wasn't anything wrong with them. They recalled them for a reason.

The floor mat "problem" has been around since 2004 when the 2nd gen Prius came along. It took 6 years to make the recall. I personally have always had two floor mats (OEM plus an all weather mat) in my Prius and never had a problem. I don't think its a very valid recall.

I can't really speak to the pedal sticking problem.

Daox 08-12-2010 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic (Post 188513)
I wonder what the percentage of incidents in Toyota's was in relation to other brands and their different models.

Before all the hoopla started and people climbed on the blame Toyota bandwagon.

I can't speak to the percentage, but the first article I linked in the first post had this image. The numbers (besides the spikes) seem incredibly low for the volume of cars Toyota must sell in a month.

http://sg.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0713184815.gif

I'm by no means saying there wasn't a problem. But, I do believe that this was just this year's media frenzy. I can't even begin to imagine how much the media has cost Toyota (and I know they aren't the first by far), just because they had to have a good story.

gone-ot 08-12-2010 11:27 AM

...attention begets attention.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com