"Eco-El-Camino"
 

My favorite car of all time is the El Camino. My current car is in the dumps (still runs, but probably not for too long) and I want to get my dream car. Here's the problem:

The El Camino (depending on the year and engine) gets anywhere from 4mpg - 12mpg which is completely unacceptable to me. So here's what I want to do:

Step 1 - Buy a used El Camino (~$2000) mainly making sure it's in good condition body wise, and everything but the engine is in great shape.

Step 2 - Swap out the Engine (~$2000-$3000) since I believe this to be the most efficient way to boost the fuel economy. I don't have the means to do it myself, so I'll find someone to do it for me who loves the project and won't charge as much.

Step 3 - Make any adjustments that would be beneficial (transmission, gear ratios, etc) to fuel economy.

Where I could use some help from the community is on Step 2. What engines would I be picking from? I'm wanting to aim upwards of 30mpg, but I'm not sure what engines will physically fit in (and match relatively well). Also, there were a limited number that ran Diesel engines, so I could possibly convert to bio-diesel. I've searched all sorts of El Camino hobbiest sites and they shun me, since an El Camino is a muscle car, and I'd be taking most of the muscle out of it by swapping in a smaller engine for fuel economy... so I'm hoping you guys can help :-)

A 4.0 liter Cologne V-6 is capable of 30+ MPG in a '07 Mustang (with some minor adjustments to the "nut behind the steering wheel").... Your mileage will most likely vary.

an 87 with a 4.3 and 4spd auto, is rated 16city/22hwy, so its not like 12mpg would be a best case scenario. 3spd autos are also an option, that you want to avoid, unless you plan on swapping engine and trans. (i'm guessing that 4spd isnt going to have a lock up converter, so maybe swap it anyway)

without someone lined up to work long hours for free, i dont think i'd look much past a pretty basic swap. i was thinking a smaller v6 "might" bolt up to the trans, but looking through the numbers on camaros and s10's of that era / similar years, i dont think a 2.8/3.1/3.4 would offer much if any improvement.

engine and probably trans from a 2.2L s-10 might be your easiest higher mpg swap, theres a good chance you would be geared for mileage, or unfortunately might just be geared too high. although you might be fine with the horsepower of a 2.2, its not going to have any torque like what would have came in the elcamino.

i think i'd be alot happier with a 4.3l out of a '96 or newer truck, same if not better mileage than the 85-87 4.3s, only a couple mpg worse than a 2.2L (guessing from s-10 ratings) and 180-200hp instead of the 2.2L 120hp or 85-87 4.3L 130-145hp, and it should have enough torque to turn whatever gears the car came with. 260lb-ft vs 2.2L's 140lb-ft.

Forget gasoline power. Go electric. :)

TDL Electronics Electric El Camino Page

I looked up the 1984 on www.fueleconomy.gov/, and the diesel version was rated at 21 mpg (combined). It might be tough to find one, but I would start there. Before jumping into an engine swap project, drive it like we know how and do the standard mods; grille block, tire pressure, wheel discs, belly pan, etc. I'd think 30 would be achievable. Plus, you could run veg and smell like french fries. Bonus! :)
Or, if you're bent on the swap, buy a Geo Metro for your daily driver and make the El Comino an EV project! Now that would be cool.

D'oh! Daox beat me to it. ha ha!

Diesel. Or maybe a 4 cyl drivetrain from a vehicle known to get more than 30 mpg; it will likely get less in it's new heavier, less aero shell.

If you're okay with an el camino-like vehicle I'd say get a dodge rampage and swap in a more efficient engine

This guy put a Cummins 4BT 3.9L diesel in one:
1967 El Camino 4 BT swap

A guy I know just put a 4BT into his Dodge Dakota, and he was getting mpgs in the high 20's and I don't think he's very eco-minded.

I've thought for a while that an El Camino would be a great vehicle for an aero-cap as well!

From the standpoint of being easily within the capabilities of a hot-rodder used to engine swaps, and getting the desired MPG I would:

1) Lose the gas engine and automatic
2) Find a GM 6.2 liter diesel A 6.5 is dimensionally the same but a bit heavier
3) Get the T-56 transmission out of a Camaro. Junk yards are full of them.
4) With the T-56 either a 3.08 or 2.73 rear axle ratio will work.
5) Upgrade front springs/shocks to accommodate the heavier (~700 lb) engine.

Bingo! You're over 30 MPG. Its mostly a bolt-up although you may have to fabricate new motor mount brackets.

You'll probably want to keep the engine NA, but if you have room, Banks makes a good and monkey-proof turbo kit for the 6.2.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the extensive posts. Thanks all!!!

The fully electric el camino is pretty sweet! I'd love to own that, but I don't have that kind of money / time / expertise. Maybe I'll e-mail them and ask though.

I like the idea of taking a stock El Camino and changing out minor parts to increase fuel economy, but I'm still not sure that 30+ is achievable. Thoughts?

The T56 swap seems to be the most promising, since it sounds like everything will match up and require far less labor. Isn't it a bit counter-intuitive that you'd want to put in a heavier engine (700+ pounds) in order to achieve a more efficient result though?

Well, I get 30+ in my truck, which is much heavier and has much worse aero (Cd*A) than an El Camino, so it's definitely achievable--it's just a question of difficulty.

Not necesarily. The weight difference between engines would only be ~100-200 lbs. That's not really a big difference--equivalent to having somebody in the passenger seat. Heck, my 35 gal fuel tank weighs ~250 lbs. Curb weight for that El Camino is probably about 3,500 lbs, so an additional 200 pounds is only a 6% increase in total weight. That will increase the rolling resistance by 6%, resulting in a fuel economy penalty of something less than 6%. So if the new, 200 lb heavier engine is >6% more fuel efficient, then you're gauranteed a net positive.

My solution:


http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/ima..._worktruck.jpg

Well, if the weight offends you, a Benz OW617 engine would weigh about the same as your small-block and give you good mileage and outstanding durability.

30 MPG would be a snap for it. And no cantankerous EPA-limited electronics.

BUT...the acceleration would be terrible, even by eco-modder standards and getting a manual transmission to fit probably involves a trip to Germany.

Maybe, it you never load it much a VW TDI engine might work.

Tell us what year El Camino are you looking at and we will be able to help you out a lot better.

El Caminos get much better than 12mpg on the upper end depending on which year/engine combo.

How about a little four-banger with a turbo?

-soD

Here you go... Chevrolet El Camino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
IRCC the el Camino weighed 4000 lbs. It also had a factory 3.3 l engine with 95 hp.
A Nissan Ka 24{2.4l 4cyl) had 130 hp sohc and 150 hp dohc. Also came in rwd chassis 240sx.

A stock VW TDI has ~90 hp and can be (relatively) easily be bumped up another 30 or more hp... so seems like a good match power-wise. Of course, it wouldn't be a straightforward swap (FWD to RWD, electronics, etc) but there are quite a few examples on the interwebs (Easy Jeep VW TDI Diesel Swap | Editorials Blog & Discussion at Jp Magazine (caution, ads!), 85 4runner VW 1.9 AFN M-TDI swap - YotaTech Forums, TDI Conversions - TDIClub Forums)

2.5L GM gasoline engine used in a variety of vehicles in the 80's. Easy swap bell housing, mounts, wiring make it doable with minimal custom fabrication. Engine can be modified to give decent performance and fuel economy.

First off, Ecomino has a much nicer sound to it.

From the OP's post, I gather he doesn't have a ton of money to blow at this time and he needs reliable transpotation that gets decent mileage.

Personally, I don't really "get" the El Camino, but, to each his own.

The trouble is that one of these things that is in good enough shape to drive every day is likely to cost more.

I think your best bet at this time is to find a decent running Ranger/S10 4 cylinder 5 speed. Such vehicles can get into the 30s with a little hypermiling/mods.

And start saving your pennies. :)

Some day, you'll have the coin to buy a nice old El Camino. I would suggest you get one from the 60s, early 70s, as they are much cooler, IMO. Of course, it would have to have a 396 4 bbl.

So much for eco!

If you plan for gas mileage, 35 mpg should be easy! Even my 1970 with a 9.8:1 compression 355" motor and 3 speed automatic transmission has gotten 22, and that was even having some fun with it.

I had an 85 Monte SS when I was 18 that got 25mpg. All stock, HO305, 2004r and 3.73 gears with 235/60r15's. What about a small bore smallblock, 305 or 307, with good small combustion chamber heads, intake, a 4x4 truck/towing cam, and a Quadrajet, run it as lean as you can go without problems, Maybe you could find a dual snorkle air cleaner from a junkyard and run the snorkles down to the manifolds hor hot air. 2004r from a car, or manual. Small duals (2" or less) with an h pipe. Skinny& short 14's in the front, tall skinny 15's in the back. 30 doesnt seem unreasonable, I'm pulling 22 in a 3/4 ton truck with a 350 tbi/3.73's

30 is quite a way from 22 and even 25. Pretty tough to do with the small block Chevy.

Lots of f-bodies get high 20's with 350's. I have put 350's in s10's for friends that consistently get mid 20's with 250-300hp. If I'm pulling 22 ( 20 lowest in the last year) in a 5300 pound truck, with hd trans and 14 bolt full floater rear end. A 3200lb? Elky with a 2004r, light duty overdrive, and 2.73's should do quite well.

Two things to really consider would be durability of the engine/transfer combo and cost/parts availability. 6.5 Chevy td. Bad cranks, bad injection pumps, overheating issues. And expensive. Ford diesel's....... Stay away from any except the 7.3, the 6.0 and 6.4 are only good for adding weight to your scrap metal pile. 6Bt and 4bt are fantastic engines but unless you have 6 or 7 grand forget it. Stay away from Chevy v6 for durability, ford too, except the sho engines and the 2v 4.0, and any Ford v6 transmission based on a c3. Ford 2.3 Lima is a good engine but almost as heavy as a v8. And short stroke/small cylinder displacement. So you will have to review the pants off it to move, no low end.

A Colorado/Canyon four cylinder with 5 speed has the power of a 60's small block Chevy. An El Camino has less frontal area and weighs less than a Colorado/Canyon. Drop that engine into an El Camino and you should be able to get better mileage than I'm getting in my Canyon.

Gm ls based v8. Find a cheap junkyard 4.8 with a 4 speed auto or 5/6 speed. With a tune you could be up there easily. Conversion mounts and headers are getting cheaper and cheaper. If you do your own work it would be very cost effective

Are there any gas v8s in the EM logs at 30+?

I found this Corvette. The fuel log is current and quite consistent.

I've read before that the newer Vettes can hit 30 (but I kinda wonder at the point of owning a Vette if all it ever does is putter around)... any other vehicles? Any older small block Chevys even getting close? (No, 22 is not close. 25 isn't either.)

I haven't found any others. It looks like 30 is almost as much of a challenge for him as it's been with my V-6 Mustang.

The 6.2 diesel engine is heavier, but is 25-40% more efficient and can push super-tall gearing.

Yeah, because they are not on here they just dont exist. Maybe they just arent members here.......

OziDarklighter -

Here's one but it costs too much :

Cars for Sale: 1984 Chevrolet El Camino in Riverside, CA 92505: Wagon Details - 297840850 - AutoTrader.com
CarloSW2

I'm a mechanic at a stealership, and at work today I was thinking about this post and just so happened to drive a customers 2009Town Car with 146,000 miles. With a 4.6l ford, small "square" v8 with fuel injection. These average between 23 and 27 on the display. This one said 26. So I take a short run ( I had to drive it to operating temp for a test anyways) and driving it easy, coasting uphills, and holding a constant, slight throttle position downhil speeding up to 65, averaged 31 over the 8 miles I drove it. With an automatic, have gotten new Mustang GT's with manuals pretty close to that number. Just sayin.....

Responded because i'd considered an El Camino myself and fairly intensively researched options for both mileage and towing.

I've seen over 30mpg in one using a 6.2 diesel, and it could tow.

The Oldsmobile 350 V8 and 4.3 V6 diesels are possible options, official ratings of the 350 diesel with a 4spd auto was 26hwy, the 4.3 I dont think came in there but generally got 4mpg better in even full size sedans i'd seen it in. Not much power though. Reliability of unmodified olds diesels is an issue, the modifications are not expensive.

The 4spd TH200-4R is probably the best transmission to use of the era and would have come stock. I dont think the 700-R4 came stock. The early ones are unreliable (the 200-4R is better for early stock ones), rebuilds of the 700-R4 with newer parts tend to be better than the 200-4R stock rebuilds however. The 200-4R bolts more easily to either GM or buick/olds/pontiac type engines.

Gas engines - you could try putting in smaller later model engines. 80's engines are a bit underpowered, swapping in the later 3.4 V6 60-degree (not the DOHC, just the one like in the Trans Sport and such - it had better mileage than the smaller 3.1) would likely improve mileage with no hit on performance. (actually more) Th700-R4's bolt up more easily to the 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6 family as they came in the firebird and such. 4 cyl is even possible, the 2.5L "iron duke" - the 100hp stock for the later ones is actually about what the 350 olds diesel v8 puts out, but with less torque. It's down about 45hp from the 4.3 V6 and such. The 2.5L also came in the 80's Firebirds/Camaros in a RWD configuration so motor mounts and such from there would probably be modifyable to get in the ballpark.

Rear axles - I think it's the 10 bolt that comes in the el camino, the 12 bolt should also be swappable/commonly done by hot rodders but there's reasons outside hot rodding to do that sometimes like ratio choice. In either 10 bolt or for sure 12 bolt ratios as low as 2.29 are available, typically pulled from late 70's sedans as I recall because they had no overdrives in those days and did it with the axle. Combined with overdrive transmissions gives extremely low cruising rpm's. Add in aeromods and i'd expect 30mpg hwy without problem. Stick it on a diesel and i'd expect upper 30's. (a 6.2 diesel in a corvette returned 40mpg averagedue to aerodynamics)

---
New info to add, incl concerning your budget and looking at others replies, will be rementioning some of the same data tho:

The 6.2 GM diesel should be within engine budget rebuilt, almost no other diesels will be. (anything else like a 7.3 probably $4k and up) It will be heavier than stock v8's by maybe 100-150lbs but not nearly the weight of most diesels (7.3 alot heavier), not as loud/rough as like a ford diesel, it didn't come stock, but 95% sure the engines bolt up to GM gasoline transmissions and i'm 95% sure the engine mounts are in the same location and I think are even the same as small block chevy. So it will be the easiest engine to swap and the 1st or 2nd least expensive diesel to put in.

The 350 olds diesel is potentially far cheaper because of a bad reputation, but they are reported reliable IF they are rebuilt and some reliability mods made which have only been known more recently by fans of the engine. (nobody knew them at the time so they died left and right, it's simple things like quality main engine bolts and such) They came stock in 82-84.

Smaller gas v6's and inline 4's will be rebuildable within that budget easily if lower tech ones.

One of the few engines i'd consider that's not a GM make would be a VW TDI which they like to swap into everything. Don't know if it matches your budget but it's about as efficient as you can get, only a Cummins 4bt will beat it. Custom mounts and stuff will be a given, and some kind of transmission adaptor likely.

The Cummins 4BT will give the best mileage possible, the problems are it's LOUD, shakes horribly, and usually expensive. That said it will last 500,000 miles and tow a bus. They are often found in panel vans, those giant bigger than 1 ton vans like UPS used to run where they'd get 15-17mpg. Swapped into a Suburban they'll get 25mpg. Put in a minitruck mid 30's probably with no aeromods or careful driving at all. There is a big community somewhere on the web that swaps them into everything, they could potentially help. Did I mention it's loud? Weight is 600-some if I remember. You can find them under 7k but you'll have to find the panel van yourself and you might not be rebuilding it, that said one in good condition might not need any rebuild.


Comments on others:

I'd be surprised if a T56 is a cheap transmission, if they are by now it's news to me but sixspeeds have never been cheap so i'd think it plus the diesel would exceed budget. Or the extra money is better spent on something else. 5 speeds are cheap if you dont mind a manual though. Plus not sure if the diesel will work with a T56 trans - bellhousings will bolt up but there's more parts than just that. Expect hundreds in extra cost minimum. Talk of aftermarket turbos for the 6.2 would utterly kill the budget, a banks kit alone probably exceeds the total engine budget. A lockup automatic will get the mileage, you only lose some performance is all. The 5spd Warner T5's can be used and give better performance due to lower 1st gear ratios and are available for practically nothing.

Ford diesels all out, cross platform swaps are harder and more expensive always. The TDI is more civilized, the 4BT the mileage king if you can stand the teeth rattling. The GM 6.2 reliability has been argued for and against but consider the original AM General Hummers using a 6.2 diesel had a durability test of full wide open throttle for something like 300 hours nonstop without shutting down or oil changes (like driving 20k miles) going between the torque peak and HP peak... a rebuilt Hummer spec engine wont break, and they don't use the older 6.2's anymore so they aren't in demand. The only weak point i've heard on the normal civillian early 6.2's was the crankshaft under high load, thats a critical part, but i'd assume just swapping a military hummer crank and maybe rods during rebuild would solve that full stop.

Small chevy 2.8/3.1/3.4 v6's are not unreliable mechanically for what I heard, every one i've had ran over 200-300k miles without problem, early ones had electrical or fuel injection problems though and the 3.4 DOHC I think was iffy. There are better later years, get those. The larger 3.4 2 valve in 1996 had better mileage than the previous 3.1's, not sure if it was available with RWD boltups though admittedly like earlier V6's. The Ford SHO is unreliable as heck, and most Ford V6's got worse mileage than Chevy. (The 3.0 in my taurus gets 17city/23mpg highway, the 2.8 in my old grand prix got 23city/30hwy driven the same - the cars are both midsize, the grand prix weighs what your camino does but a little more aero and i drove 75mph everywhere) I don't know of any V6's likely to give better ECONOMY than the little chevy V6's, there are ones giving more performance sometime at the same economy, which will cost more and be a PITA to swap in.

Four cylinders i'm less of an expert in, the Iron Dukes had a reputation of lasting forever because they are half a small block v8 basically. They were not very powerful, the ones in the Chevy Astros were 98hp for instance and were RWD bellhousings and such. They were very economical in the cars they were in, I got 35mpg hwy consistently with only a 3spd non over drive transmission in a buick century I had which could seat six. Are newer 4cyl more economical? A 1985 S10 with one and a 4spd auto was 18city/25hwy (this is "newer" aggressive EPA driving mind you), the 1995 S10 2.2 with 4spd auto was 18city/24hwy vs the 2005 Colorado with 2.8L 4cyl and 4spd auto 16city/23hwy hmm... in honesty we figured out all the tricks for good mileage in the 1980's because we had to... that said the newer ones have almost twice the HP. If your sole concerns are mileage and budget newer engines don't offer that much, seriously, but if you need performance then yes you will want late model engines because that has really improved in the last 25 years. The only question is whether an Iron Duke is underpowered.

Probably NOT. The 1978 Camino/Monte Carlo had a 200cid v6 stock with 94hp and 160lb/ft torque, and rear axle ratios then were typically 2.52 or even worse. Do you mind driving a car with late 70's performance or a 4cyl minivan? Actually some of the later versions had 110hp so it's not even all that bad, and if you don't find one of those lightly mod the engine to give that or a bit more - the torque is still a bit less than the 1978 V6 but the acceleration would be comparable. Stronger mods would equal it in torque too. If it's just getting out of the hole consider an axle swap to something lower since the overdrive transmission will still be lower than 1978 cruise RPM. Actually the 2.5x ratio with an OD and a 4cyl may not even hold without aeromods or flat land driving, you'd have to try it and see... the RPM be getting really low by then. What accelerates the car is torque to your tires - if the 0-30mph movement is intolerably underwhelming, and say you have a 2.52 ratio, and you put in the 3.73 from the 1985 Monte Carlo SS you'll have a 48% harder 1st gear pull kicking you back in the seat a bit better (even though once you exceed 3000rpm or so it's less relevant.. 0-60 will be about the same, only horsepower matters after the hole shot) yet the 0.70 overdrive in the TH700 will still have a 2.61 overall ratio. You don't have to touch the rear axle til you see how it drives and cruises though.

The 6.2 diesel will give better mileage because it's a diesel, and have alot of torque, but not be much faster powerwise since it's heavier and cost more.


I've considered several builds of the El Camino, myself I want to go with a 6.2 when I build one because I want the ability to tow around 5000lbs which it would handle without problem and which I prefer to minitrucks of the era. I've long considered the Iron Duke as a perfect mileage swap for any number of project cars that hot rodders would be insulted by - people forget the original inline sixes in them had no more power either. A 4cyl would work for just moving passengers around but you almost have to ask why aren't you driving a Saturn if you just want to move people? :P Yet if all you need to move is the occasional couch or you just like the style, an Iron Duke may very well work just fine. GM had no problem sticking them in Chevy Astro midsize vans fer chrissakes, at 98hp and a heavier curb weight than your camino (3900lbs instead of 3200lbs) albeit typically with the 5spd stick. If you swap the Warner T5 5spd stick you get an even lower 3.50 1st gear and the transmissions cost nothing and are everywhere.

How about a BMW diesel. 2.5tds with around 160 hp. Reliable and also good fe. They do around 35 in 5 and 7 series whitout a problem. But alot of fabricating. Or the newer 3.0. But those wil be expencive

Olds 350 diesels will give good service if they have the late-model head studs.

These are hard-to-find engines, though.