Is Ecomodder dying/dead??
 

When I join this page probably about 9 years ago, it was always active, always something new to read and learn.

What happened?

It looks like the main page hasn't been updated in years.
We still get some people posting fuel logs, but nothing like it once was. It use to update what seemed like 50 times a day. Now we get less than 10, along with less and less new cars added it seems.

I think car ownership itself is kind of dying. Younger people my age don't want to own a car, or don't want to commute more than a few miles.

Also at the same time, new cars have gotten more fuel efficient and fuel prices were pretty low for the last few years.

Yep zoomers don’t want a car let alone drive one.

They want a car to be a boring appliance like a toaster and don’t want to touch it or fix it.

Many “car” forums have died
The diyelectriccar forum has suffered even more

Also a reflection that many zoomers hate forums in general and just want to watch as created 15 second videos instead and make comments that disappear after a few minutes

Different world

Ecomodder.com came along at the perfect time.
Gas hit $3 a gallon for the first time, there were no useable electric cars in production, hybrids were almost nonexistent.

That is kind of true for most of my generation indeed.
However there is also a huge cultural gap between zoomers and boomers.
Forums like this often also are near unsearchable, links are often dead and if you ask something you often get told to just use the search function.
And info from 10+ years is often outdated.

Car ownership has also gotten more expensive while wages where outpaced by inflation for decades and then we got covid.
We zoomers are basicly ****ed big time at the moment, and it doesn't seem to get better anytime soon.
And since people are often working from home now, buying a car is often a bad idea for them.
Cars have also become harder and harder to fix, everything is controlled by computers that can't be acecssed while mechanical complexity has increased as well.
Laws also became more and more strict in most places.

Cars aren't as appealing as a hobby anymore for all these reasons.

To see what's going on you can go to Alexa.com. https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ecomodder.com

90-day trend: 491,383 global ranking and people spend 1:59 minutes of their attention per visit. See also [SIMILAR SITES BY AUDIENCE OVERLAP].

Compare with thesamba: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/thesamba.com

90-day trend: 111,274 global ranking and people spend 2:47 minutes of their attention per visit.

There is still interest in cars that are uncomplicated and hold their value. I went to a small show and swap on Father's Day and saw one $60,000 Karmann Ghia and a Beetle with a Datsun pickup bed (it had a new paint job this year).

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vw+meet+2021

Don't mention TheSamba.com or I'm liable to go buy another air cooled VW!

Cars do seem to have become boring appliances. Their main selling point anymore is the size of their infotainment screen. Most people buy CUVs and they buy them grey with the occasional extremist that buys a black or white CUV. (I think they do it just to make other's think they could be a police officer.)

I've noticed that the forum seems to have been getting a lot of questions about how to make one ton trucks and SUV's more efficient. Fuel efficiency seems to be the last thing on people's mind.

Now, because of COVID, US used car prices are up 30% (and rising!).

People think car efficiency is good enough. Why try to get 50mpg when you can get 40mpg in a CUV?

The low fuel prices are transitory. Seems there are people that modify stuff for whatever reason.

Doo eet!

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...9-100-0138.jpg

1974 Volkswagen Type 4/ 412 Wagon

Now you have me going through the classifieds! You happy!?

Now I just need to convince my wife we really need one.

A 412? For 3 grand? And you not on it like ugly on an ape??? Only issue if you need to smog because jetronics are unobtainium.

I still rather have a Rabbit Diesel pickup 5mt

I'd love one of those too, but I'd need something I could haul my wife and kids around in (or that they could haul me around in.) It's cheaper to just own a trailer for those hauls.

But being realistic, I'll just keep driving what I got until they get ran over by a cement truck or something of that sort.

Somewhat comical, I assumed this would be a bit of a unicorn vehicle. Did a quick search and found one about 20 miles away for free (pretty rough shape) but with the diesel engine.

Seems like a lot of interest on Ecomodder had always been quite seasonal and tied to fuel prices.

This would not be the main reason, but the off topic and the personal animus that gets vented here also drives people away. We lost one this week. It's why I split last year. And we have lost others in the past that I know of. I am sure there were more who left and others who did not want to join for similar reasons. However, I agree the main drivers are (1) fuel prices, (2) generational changes in car ownership, and (3) the increasing complexity of newer cars that makes them harder to mod.

Of course.


It's quite surprising how opinions about car ownership changed so fast. I see kids saying they're not sure if they would ever own a car, mostly due to the growing popularity of Uber.


Even if cars were still simpler than what they became, the average Joe may seem even basic routine checks as too much of a burden. Did you notice how many men either don't even know how to change a tire or just think it's more convenient to call their insurance to do it?

Changing tires yourself is pretty hard and requires a machine for dynamic ballancing.
I'd rather let someone in a tireshop mount new tires onto my wheels.
However just switching between summer and winter wheels is pretty easy.

Ecomodder.com is going good. Still a free speech platform. The other electric car forms ban anyone who make posts that don't agree, are inconvenient, reveal hypocrisy, double standards, ect to the self proclaimed environmentalists/communist beliefs.
I got banned from mynissan leaf dot com because 3 weeks after the mask mandate was ended in Texas I pointed out the fact that the infection rate was unchanged. They really wanted to believe that masks were the difference between survival and everyone on earth dieing.
I'm going to go trash the illusion of green power some more.

Agreed.

I follow the Recent Posts, but my refuge is in The Lounge (and Aerodynamics). It's as close to 'social media' as I care to be.

Aerodynamics is fun.
It's like Babylon bee vs epoch times.

Except that, as you know, this is not a general interest social media site. It's specifically a car modding forum. I don't bother myself with the Lounge, so I don't know alot about how stuff plays out there. But, to me, politicized public health policy (especially politicians' mask mandate decisions) is a divisive distraction from the purpose of the forum. The more members engage in unrelated divisive political debates the more difficult it will be to rebuild membership around the core skills and interests the EM site is for. This not a free speech site. It's a membership community with which we freely agreed to limit our speech in order to focus on a shared set of interest. Put another way, it is a free association site with rules about staying reasonably on topic, and not an anything goes free speech site. Anyway, that's the way I see it. I don't need people to agree with me. I can ignore threads and get along anyhow. Cheers, james

Ha. There're things I wouldn't say on 4chan.

The terms are acceptable.

He says, in The Lounge.

4chans /o/ is just about the worst car forum in existence;)

I was actually refering to changing the tire and wheel assembly for the spare when a tire gets punctured, which is as easy as changing from the summer set to the winter set :thumbup:

Gas is too cheap for ecomodding to be anything but a hobby, or a goal to reduce green house gases.

I have ecomodded my truck, let's add up the cost
40% bed cover -$70
Lowered -$700
Increase PSI tires-$0
Total cost -$770

That price doesn't include my labor, which was considerable in installing lowering kit.

Gas saved last 4400 miles 26 gallons vs epa average
average cost $2.70
Total saved -$70.20

Miles until total cost is recouped at current gas prices
about 43800

Maybe the ROI sucks but for me it's like the reason for mountain climbing. Does make the wife nuts.

Well, I actualy change the tires on my moped myself.;)

People that leave because of stuff they can't handle in THE LOUNGE are snowflakes. There's a reason there's a lounge, and it's to talk about off topic things with other members here that we've established relationships with. Nobody forces anyone to read something, so that excuse is lame.

A handful of people leaving because they can't handle the discourse isn't the reason for the overall decline in participation.

The topics have been thoroughly discussed. What is the chance that someone is going to bring up a topic that doesn't have several threads already discussing the subject? A site like this flourishes in the beginning when information was scarce on such topics. Now, when people in other forums discuss efficiency related topics, I simply link an old thread that is a good resource. No reason to have another discussion about it.

Air bags? How much drop did that get you? It's 90% of you out-of-pocket expense, but the looks and the handling probably benefited too.

Lowering a VW Type III or a 1964 Plymouth Valiant (at least the front) is a labor-only proposition.

So we are calling Gen Z "Zoomers" now? Interesting. Where did the term zoomer come from? It sounds like a hyperactive baby boomer.

Why is ecomodding on the decline? I'd say because gas is cheap (in the USA) and cars are increasingly more fuel efficient from the factory. There was a boost in the mid 00's when new fuel economy standards went into effect and cars have been improving steadily every since. (The standard requires 3.5% per year for light trucks and 5% per year for cars) Today you can buy:

52 mpg - Corolla hybrid - $24K
52 mpg - Camry Hybrid - $27K
40 mpg - RAV4 Hybrid - $29K
36 mpg - Sienna Hybrid -$34K

That is fantastic fuel economy from the factory for reasonable prices. Why mess around with DIY mods?

My personal mods have dropped off quite a bit because frankly they don't pay back anymore or ones that would pay back are illegal and would cause my car to fail inspection. (Not to mention the morality of increased air pollution for everyone to save myself a few bucks)

Maybe because COVID had all Gen Z learn how to use Zoom?

Why is the yearly increase lower for trucks?
Also "zoomer" came up a s a contrast to "boomer".
And these prices are out of range for my generation, there is no way a significant quantity of us could afford that kind of price.

Check out the new and recent Chevy Spark and Mitsubishi Mirage. The Spark has a 5 speed manual and begins at $15k. It's 5th gear, final drive, and 15" wheels probably mean it revs fairly low for modern manuals at highway speeds, maybe 2300 or 2400 at 60 mph. Great simple driving appliance.

Trucks have a lower increase because that is how the law was written. No logical reason for it - just the effect of lobbying by auto companies that make lots of money on trucks. That difference a key reason why automakers are dropping cars today in favor of crossovers that can be classified as a light truck.

The oldest Gen Z would be 25. They are just starting out in life so of course new cars are out of reach. New cars are a luxury item for when the finances are in order.

That said, all but one of the engineers I've mentored bought a new car with their 1st paycheck out of college. Lots of $40K to $50K cars and trucks. The 25 year old engineer that sits next to me is driving a 2021 Mercedes C300 AWD.

I can't say I blame them even though I always advise against it. I bought a new truck for my wife straight out of school - one of the biggest financial mistakes I made. I actually didn't even have to wait for my first paycheck. The dealership wrote me a loan based on my signing letter 3 months before I graduated and deferred payments for 4 months. Luckily I came to my senses at the age of 25 and started making better decisions. I dug a deep hole in those 3 years though. We had debt 3x our income at age 25 between the student loans, car loans, and house.

He lives in Germany. There is no shortage of efficient hatchbacks in Europe.

Most of the times I see a Gen Z driving a new car, it's usually a small econobox, and often they're working on Uber or similar services which wouldn't allow them to use a much older (and cheaper) car.

I've seen the same in Mexico.

Even here in the USA, I'm seeing more 20 somethings with brand new cars than I've ever seen before. Just the other day I met a 19 year old kid that owns (is paying for) a brand new RAV4.

Plenty of people say they had to buy a new vehicle because they couldn't afford to repair one that was out of warranty. They should just say they wanted a new vehicle and let that be the reason. There are plenty of companies that provide warranties for used vehciles.

What about the buying pattern for new cars among 20-somethings there? Are them going mostly for econoboxes, trucks and SUVs, or something else such as embracing EVs?

Everyone wants a grey crossover or pickup. I don't have the statistics on hand, but it seems econocars are a dying breed. This includes the younger generation. There's a university here in town and although a few will drive econo cars the majority will say they want an AWD crossover or pickup and won't consider anything else. The same goes for used car buyers. You see ads all the time in the paper: "In search of car. Must be AWD and have high ground clearance."

I just towed a piano on a trailer with the Avalon for a freshman kid from the university that had a brand new RAV4. He boasted about all the things he can do with his RAV4 and showed up thinking he could just shove the piano in it. The piano is a 5 ft upright. There was no way he was going to get the piano in there. But even when we left he said he still wasn't sure it wouldn't fit since we hadn't let him try. :rolleyes: