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bbjsw10 09-04-2008 11:33 PM

Electric Car Hub Motor
 
Found this while searching google images for electric cars. Searched on here and did not see it so I though I would share.

Thought it would make a nice coast assist motor if nothing else.

bbjsw10 09-04-2008 11:56 PM

Did some math on these for a 155/80 12 like on my car.
At 350rpm = 22.67mph
850rpm = 55.06mph
I used this calculator.

bennelson 09-05-2008 10:09 AM

Those motors do look interesting.

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/2025496..._Hub_Motor.jpg

The main thing I usually hear about hub motors for use in a car are questions about "sprung weight" since the weight of the motor is on the road instead of in the engine compartment, held up by the suspension.

Pretty cool that you can get ones that already have brake discs on them. Range of voltage isn't bad either, they have 48-96V versions.

My other concern is that they say "brushless DC". I know brushless controllers start to get a little on the fancy side (price!) and you would need one per wheel, so two controllers at a minimum. I am not sure how turns would effect the power/signal, etc going to the wheels either.

I would think that you could have one potentiometer sending the same signal to both motors, as long as everything is identical - exact same motor with same settings.

I really neat advantage of hub motors is that you don't need any room under the hood for the motor. Put two of these on the back of a Metro or Festiva, and you got a hot hybrid!!!

MazdaMatt 09-05-2008 11:25 AM

Yeah, used on the rear wheels as a hybrid would be pretty slick. Get up to speed, turn on your wheels and kill your engine... Wheel motors were used on the 600+hp electric BMW Mini that was posted before.

MPaulHolmes 09-05-2008 12:00 PM

No transmission, no adapter plate and coupler. All one gear probably. Man, that's clean. Kelly controllers have some pretty decent sized brushless controllers. I've heard Kelly controllers are "underpowered", but maybe they would work? 5 kWatt, on both back wheels makes, let's see, I have to do some figgerin...

5+5 = 10

10 kWatt!!! That's plenty! It's what my car is right now, and for in town driving, it has perfectly good acceleration. Plus, those brushless motors handle extra power just fine. They just get a bit toasty, but they'd be blowing in the wind, staying nice and cool.

MazdaMatt 09-05-2008 12:32 PM

That's some fancy math you've got there. Glad to be in the shadow of such genius.

MPaulHolmes 09-05-2008 12:58 PM

It's not a problem. As long as it's not my 8's I can add any pair of numbers from 0 to 9. So, feel free to let me know if there are any questions... For example, if there was a hub motor that was 9 kWatts, and another that was 5 kWatts, I could hook a brother up.

Have you guys seen the hub motors built in Italy for some GM prototype that were like 20 kWatts EACH! Where the crap are those??? I remember their grand plan was to use the hub motors only to improve acceleration of their gasoline car! Such vision! 20/200 vision. Did they sell the technology to Cobasys?

Oh No! I just wrapped copper around a nail, and hooked it to a battery. Quick, arrest me for patent infringement! haha!:D

bbjsw10 09-05-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennelson (Post 59077)
I really neat advantage of hub motors is that you don't need any room under the hood for the motor. Put two of these on the back of a Metro or Festiva, and you got a hot hybrid!!!

My thought exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 59094)
Get up to speed, turn on your wheels and kill your engine...

Or backwards of this use efficient electric to accel then bump start car and cruise with gas at high MPG. Let the electric do the bad mpg stuff accel, stop and go, etc. You may even be able to sneak through a drive-thru once in awhile.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes (Post 59107)
No transmission, no adapter plate and coupler. All one gear probably. Man, that's clean. I have to do some figgerin...

5+5 = 10

I like the simplicity of these as well.

And I see you and me had same math teacher.

Geebee 09-05-2008 10:30 PM

Why doesn't someone do something similar that is retro fittable to current cars ie, a 14" rim with the brushless motor built in the outer rim even if it required low profiles to fit, or alternately offset outwards, thus allowing any car to become a hybrid by just replacing the wheel and wiring up, even brake regen could be built in.
Would particularly suit FWD's and replace the rear wheels.

Memorytwo 09-06-2008 01:39 AM

because its not that easy.

MPaulHolmes 09-06-2008 02:30 AM

I thought the main obstacle was the price of the hub motors. But if China is able to use political prisoner slave labor to make the cost reasonable, then I say great! It can't be THAT hard to use them, can it? It's easy on a bike! And a car is just a little bigger, well, a lot bigger, and completely different.

Geebee 09-06-2008 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achang1 (Post 59266)
because its not that easy.

Why not?
A hub motor built with the coils further out to allow for drop in replacement over the brake drum etc. will get a lot more torque than the way bike style hub motors are made at the moment, top speed is not what is needed for a FE hybrid low speed torque is and the kw's for assisting a light car won't be massive.
I often had the same thought about moving the coils to the rim of say a 20" bike wheel to get brutal torque at low rev's, unfortunately for bike use it would increase weight, drop top speed and increase cost, all of these would be acceptable for a car.
Just a thought as noone seems to make one.:confused:

jjackstone 09-13-2008 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geebee (Post 59230)
Why doesn't someone do something similar that is retro fittable to current cars ie, a 14" rim with the brushless motor built in the outer rim even if it required low profiles to fit, or alternately offset outwards, thus allowing any car to become a hybrid by just replacing the wheel and wiring up, even brake regen could be built in.
Would particularly suit FWD's and replace the rear wheels.

See this site.
Home

John

Geebee 09-13-2008 07:32 PM

Wow it looks just like I had thought even down to the torque bar with wires on the outside.
Thanks for te link.

sweatbrah 09-14-2008 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geebee (Post 59230)
Why doesn't someone do something similar that is retro fittable to current cars ie, a 14" rim with the brushless motor built in the outer rim even if it required low profiles to fit, or alternately offset outwards, thus allowing any car to become a hybrid by just replacing the wheel and wiring up, even brake regen could be built in.
Would particularly suit FWD's and replace the rear wheels.

yeah honestly!it would be fun to see what it will do with my jeep wrangler hahaha.... i am dying on gas... i need to get a new car or something like moped or build an electric commuter car but i :turtle:cant sell my jeep cause i love going wheeling... maybe one day i can do a diesel swap and run biodiesel ..http://dotable.com/images/smilies/turtle.gif

bennelson 09-14-2008 10:26 AM

Yeah, I have seen that Poulsen Hybrid web page before. It looks just a little not right to me, but the CONCEPT is great.

If anyone finds some car-sized wheel hub motors that are actually available to the public, at a not terrible price (might need sponsors or something) please let me know!

-ben

Yuri4x4 09-23-2008 01:51 PM

From their FAQ page:
Quote:

What does it cost ?

Please note that these are projected approximate prices.

Poulsen Hybrid System $3,500

Which includes:

2 Poulsen Hybrid motors
Auxiliary Components and cables
2 brushless DC motor controllers
On-board charger, 72V, 10A.
Batteries (Additional):
72V 120Ah Deep Cycle Lead Acid battery pack (6 batteries). $400 to $450
or
4.3 KWh Lithium Ion battery pack with battery management system and dedicated 25A charger: approximately $4,500

Installation performed by an authorized dealer $500 - 600



Total $4,550 with Lead Acid Batteries
$8,600 with Lithium Ion battery pack
Quote:

How does it work ?

The effect felt by the driver when the system is turned on is equivalent to freewheeling down a 3% grade...
A 3% grade is not much. So $4550 for a reletively small gain. It would take a LONG time to make your money back on that one!

dremd 09-23-2008 08:28 PM

3% grade was more than enough to keep the XC90 rolling 60~70 mph.

However grade and power are 2 very different things.

Geebee 09-26-2008 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennelson (Post 61130)
Yeah, I have seen that Poulsen Hybrid web page before. It looks just a little not right to me, but the CONCEPT is great.

If anyone finds some car-sized wheel hub motors that are actually available to the public, at a not terrible price (might need sponsors or something) please let me know!

-ben


Last pair went for about $1200
2 X 8KW ELECTRIC WHEEL ELECTRIC CAR /HYBRID EV - eBay, Other Car Parts, Accessories, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 03-Oct-08 09:37:20 AEST)

bennelson 09-26-2008 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geebee (Post 63552)
Last pair went for about $1200

Getting closer.

Those are only marked as 3000 watt continuous. That's 6K for a pair of them, which is still less power than my motorcycle.

If you put my cycle' motor on a car, it would have pretty poor performance, and you would really have to watch the temperature and the brushes.

Might still work for a very small car at low speeds only, which is how I would do it.

Electric motor to pull away from stops and low speeds in town, gas engine for high speeds and long range.

toyobug 10-02-2008 08:14 AM

Has anyone seen this site?
BluWāv Systems - Products - Motors
Hub motors and Near wheel motors. I didn't see a price though.

NeilBlanchard 09-17-2010 12:51 PM

Sorry for the necroposting, but this is right on topic. Has anybody seen this (new?) Siemens hub motor? It is also suspension and steering and brakes (I cannot tell if it has purely regenerative braking, or any regen braking?):

[youtube]zPSoNfmuBXc[/youtube]

dremd 09-17-2010 01:47 PM

I have not seen that from siemens.
Looks similar to others (from video).
Do you have any more info?
I have a buddy at seimens, I'll see what he can find out

NeilBlanchard 09-17-2010 05:39 PM

I found out the video and the news releases are from 2006, so it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere?

hayden55 12-14-2010 07:03 PM

i am thinink about (later on in life) doing a factory five racing GTM supercar kit, and pulling some parts and the ls1 engine out of a donor corvette c5, and putting them in. then once i have this done, i would do a hydrogen fuel assist system kinda like a water methanol injection system into the engine but substituted with HHO gas. Then i would like to get some custom electric hub motors mounted up to some rims i like.
the kit weighs about 2230lbs. and has about 350hp on a stock 5.7l ls1 engine.
then you add in the rims and everything.
i would think it would weight about 2500-2600lbs. when finished. what do you think of this?
if a stock corvette c5 is getting about 18/20 all around mpg, and it weighs 3221 and you get about another 3-4% for every 100lbs. you drop you would get an extra 40% in fuel economy(calculated with 2230 weight). then the hydrogen assist would get you about another 35%+ if hooked up right, and acetone if added in small amounts can add maybe 10% (but i think this only works in carbureted vehicles) because it aids in vaporization, but i dont think it would help in EFI engines. add 1/15th of a percent to how much fuel in your tank, or just 1-2 oz per tank is what ive heard. And i was thinking about these electric hub motors to put on here on the front 2 wheels. how much would this gain me on fuel economy?

projected fuel economy(w/o hub motors):
+40% because of weight reduction
+10% beacause of acetone in fuel
+35% because of hydrogen assist (can be more)
= 35 mpg
any additional info???

fishaholic 03-06-2013 07:40 PM

Protean Electric in-wheel motors have the stuff to make an F-150 turn green

This has been around for a couple of years. I wrote to the Protean company to see about licencing the technology and heard nothing back. Apparently they have contracted with Alibaba in China to produce them. The F150 is the vehicle I wanted to try it on. Even at 23 MPG in mine it is too much to drive daily. I would like to put it on my Focus too with a small generator in the engine bay to save on battery weight and achieve longer distances. My commute twice a week is 160 miles one way.


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