electric fan question
 

Hi all,

I'm trying to figure out the best bang for my buck to improve FE while keeping my truck a truck. (or actually an RV, we regularly actually camp in the camper shell) Does anyone have information on this electric fan kit?
Troyer Performance
They claim 1 - 2.5 mpg improvements (which, given the starting point, is ~6-15%). Truth? Lies? Somewhere in between?

I want one of Bondo's aerolids, but he's not in Denver! Maybe this spring...

Or, somewhat off-topic, how long will a coroplast underbelly last on a dirt road? And will a few panels that won't cover the tranny-->differential actually make a difference?

Thanks,

That is really expensive for electric fans. Go to a junkyard and find Taurus or F-body fans. Advance/Autozone type places sell a fan wiring kit that is fixed at 185 degrees and is like 30 bucks that works great, it even has the air conditioner turn on wire with it. I have a single fan right now but will change to dual fans this summer when I get around to it. But for most light duty use a single fan is fine. Even if you buy new electric fans they are only about 50-90 bucks each for good ones.

0.5-3mpg depending on how you drive and other stuff is about typical for doing away with a belt driven fan. Plus the engine running smoother and quieter with a slightly faster warmup are also benefits.

I think part of the cost is the mounting kit. Zip-tying through the radiator fins has always seemed a bit sketchy to me. Is that mounting style really strong enough to last another 15 years?

Also, I'm hesitant to scavange from a junk yard. We use this truck to pull our rafts around, and some river access points are via pretty rough dry washes or are hours of dirt road away from the nearest town. I would hate to be working hard to pull the trailer at 10mph and have my fans give up the ghost. I want to try to boost my mileage, but don't want to get stranded for the effort.

What I saw at Autozone's web page for buying new looked like ~$160/fan and ~$80 wiring kit, all without the mounting hardware. Coyote X, could you point me to a link for a high-quality product that is more cost effective?

Assuming you carry tools with you, if the e-fans ever fail, you could always just reinstall the normal fan and belt.

Using dual fans would probably be the best bet if you're worried about failing... at least that way you have a fan that will take up some of the slack if one of them fails, the second will still be working, and you'll be able to get where you're going, and get home, so you can fix it at your leisure (for the most part).

I've always used junkyard fans for my conversions, no matter what it was going on (including big trucks, meant to carry far more than your camper rig.)

In all the years you've been around, how often have you heard of an e-fan actually failing?

Never had a fan fail on me, other than mechanical clutch fans (just the clutch failed). I know that going from the mechanical to electrical fan on my Sonoma nets about 5hp freed to the wheels and when not spinning it fast for that 5hp its about 1.5mpg overall.

Most trucks benefit from e-fans. Haven't heard of one getting worse performance or economy.

less expensive new fan
 

If you want the reliability of new components for your electric fan, you might try summit racing. You can put together a brand new temp controlled system for more like $150.

I was gonna convert my F150 to e-fan but so far have been too lazy/cheap to buy one. So I pulled the mech fan off... and that was it. So far I've had no problems running NO fan. Of course not everybody can pull this off but I have been surprised at how much I've gotten away with- summertime operation, pulling a trailer, etc.

P.S. I've been carrying the fan and wrench needed to re-install it on board ever since I pulled it off a year ago... just in case. Have yet to put it back on.

Hmmm, it is winter, so I might just go ahead with the fan removal and see how it does. I like what Summit Racing had to offer, so I could add in fans as needed as the temps warmed up - and before I pull our trailer in the Arizona desert in June this year.

Thanks for the tips.

I drove for 2 weeks without a fan. It was cold and I didn't have any trouble but I really didn't drive it much. I have been collecting fans and other random motors off cars getting hauled to the junkyard for a while so I have a pile of assorted fans laying around. I just found one that looked nice and stuck it on there. I have 2 brackets holding the top and one of those through the radiator ties holding the bottom. All the aftermarket fans I have used are much louder than the factory fans. There might be some quiet ones but I haven't seen any.

All my other cars that have electric fans I have put on use the 'through the radiator' plastic things and I have never had a problem with them.

You didn't say anything about your truck - weight, size, horsepower, engine type, etc. All are factors in choosing a fan. If its a diesel, forget about electric fans, particularly since you tow. If you go up mountains in low gear, make sure you can get get enough fan for the duty. Thin air at 10,000 feet doesn't cool as efficiently as air at 5,000 ft. No electric can pull the same amount of air through your radiator that your current 250 hp fan (engine) will pull. If its over-sized you may be ok - if it's barely adequate no electric will work for you. You have to size your fan for the most extreme situation you will encounter as well as for cooling system degradation over time..

There is an electric fan selection guide at the flex-a-lite.com site.

I"m running without a fan right now in my S-10. Hooked a scan gauge today to it & the highest temp reading was 193* with an air temp of 44*. It avg around 181*. It seems when I P&G, the temp goes up coasting in neutral. The only thing I can figure is the water pump is pumping slower. Still waiting on that free efan my bro-in-law said I could have.

It's a 2006 Ford F-150 with the 4.2L V6 & manual 5-speed rated at ~200hp. I think curb weight is ~4600 lbs. I'm assuming that the radiator is the same as in the 5.4L V8, so I should have some extra capacity there. The EPA numbers are 14/19, I've been getting 14.5 with pure in-town (and that's with the engine hardly ever warmed up all the way - I have short drives with no (!!!) bike lanes) and 17-18 hwy - probably mostly because we were driving 75 with a camper shell. We'll see where I can get as I start some mods, and can afford an aerolid.

As for now, the fan is out, and I'm going to start a bit of test driving without any fan to see how it goes before buying electrics. I'm leaning towards a pair of 14" Derale Tornados - $150 cheaper than the Troyer set-up.

Okay,
Took of the mechanical fan and drove without for a while. I have been seeing about a 2 mpg improvement in the city (up to 16-17), and up to 21-22 on the highway - although I haven't had a tank-full run at 75 yet to compare. I went ahead and purchased an e-fan kit from Summit Racing, and have completed the install. Before all of this, my water temps on the ScanGuage ran 198-202 and would creep up to 206-208 going over I-70 (20 miles of up-grade to 10,000 ft). (We've only owned the truck since November, so I hadn't seen summer conditions) The weather has been warming up, and I've noticed my temps getting higher - up to 211 at an off-ramp after a flat run on the highway at 60 mph on a 70 degree day and it didn't cool down til I turned off the engine, regularly to 207-209 in town. I haven't been running the A/C, and haven't been towing. I've popped the hood, and my e-fans weren't running.
So, my questions:
1) Where should I have put the through-the-fins temp probes? They are the 170 degree on, 160 off kind. I have one for each fan, one probe is about 4" from the bottom center, the other is about 3" from the bottom left corner. My infrared thermometer had shown those areas to hit 200 when the water temp was reading 207 a while back.
2) The temp probes stick past the front side of the radiator by ~ 1.5-2", should they be cut down somewhat to be accurate?
3) Is there another way to check if I actually hooked the whole contraption up correctly?
4) Is 205-210 an okay range to run an '06 F-150? At what temp should I start to get nervous? Lots of posts about water temps seem to cite 190-200 an the correct range. The guage in the dash hasn't budged.

Lots of questions, thanks for any feedback you can give.

Hold a lighter up to the tip of the probe sticking through the radiator to heat it up and make the fans kick on :)

The through the radiator probes seem to work good to me. I have a 190 degree probe on my van and it kicks on right when it needs to. With 2 fans there should be no problem with it ever overheating. I would go over the wiring carefully. It sounds to me like it isn't hooked up right somewhere.

I have dual electric fans on my 79 chevy truck hooked to a 210 thermostat to turn the fans on. They have never came on unless i was stuck in traffic or towing a heavy load.

When I first put them on, I thought they was broken. I had to hold the truck with the brake and rev the motor at a fast idle to get it to heat up enough to turn the fan on. ( bad for tranny, i know)

Speeds above 20 mph or so seem to provide enough airflow to keep the motor cool.

Idling in traffic is the most demanding, especially when getting off the highway and getting stuck in traffic. The motor is heat soaked, and you do not have the high speed air stream to cool it.

You could get a simple single 14 in fan and thermostat, and just zip tie to the radiator. that will be cheap ( ~$130.00 )and easy for normal driving.

Put the stock fan on if you are going to tow, and you'll have the 14 efan as back up.

This the controller I'm using-

Derale 16749 - Derale Deluxe Adjustable Controllers with Pipe Threaded Probes - summitracing.com

I have both a clutch fan on the water pump and an electric fan. I've been too lazy to remove the clutch fan since I think I've got to remove the upper radiator shroud, overflow tank and w/s washer tank. Maybe. Maybe I sould go take a look.

Plus there is the $120 36mm Snap-On fan wrench the shop manual says I gotta have.:p

Is that the one you are still carrying around Frank?

Seriously the wrench thing does remind me of how many of my peers owed their souls to Stan the Snap-On man when I was a mechanic in the late 60s/early 70s.

Craftsman or S-K tools just wouldn't do the job as well.

I thought I'd try the Snap-On experience, just to see what all the hype was about. So I got some nice Snap-On tools, then one of my worthless roommates stole them. :mad:

Craftsman and S-K it is.

I Disagree While it is true that more diesel owners do tow larger loads the engine is inherently more efficient and there by makes less waste heat.
How do I know? Roll down the windows on a cold day in a TDI and crank the heat. I can get the coolant temp down to 130F at 60 MPH at that Temp the Thermostat has been very closed for at least 30F.

Cliffs: Diesel = Less need for fans / HP than Gasoline.

I stick with whatever tools I come across, frankly. In fact, I don't even care if they've got a lifetime warranty. I've never seen a ratchet that wasn't rebuildable, and Ive even rebuilt the ones that come from Wally World and look like they're made from GumBall machine parts.

Running no fan isn't a bad idea, depending on your commute.

Frank - Have you ever considered putting a panel from the radiator to the bottom of the engine compartment to direct airflow downward after leaving the radiator?

I just wondered how it would affect your engine temps/mileage.

I have never considered that.

There sure isn't much room in there for something like that either; especially in the car but even in the pickup.

I figure not, but are you willing to give it a shot? You don't have a grille block at all, right? So I figure that it will shunt flow a bit because the air will have to change directions, but it might also keep the air from getting in around the engine and creating the vortex under the hood... maybe help with aero a bit?

Just figured if you're willing to test it out, might be something to look into.

They both have grille blocks (no pic of F150's though):

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...0212009001.jpg

plus the Sport Coupe has this:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...upeblanket.jpg

Edit: As you can see, perhaps the front end aero isn't optimized???

Maybe remove the grille block and test the rear panel?

I guess it won't help you with aero at all, since you have a block, but the data will still be a nicety, I guess.

Up to you, if you're willing to try it out.

My testing sux. No consistency in my routes; no Scangauge. All I can do is hope to spot big-*** trends.

Although I am proud to say the Coupe gave me 43 mpg on my last fill and that is with NO P&G! :thumbup:

No, I'm not feeling too much pain from it's "awful aero".

Fair enough.

Sorry to say, but the Coupe's gas log data shows fe all over the place and that is with things being as consistent as can be. I should go figure the range of the data...

http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/204