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bennelson 01-09-2009 12:38 AM

Electric Vehicle Information - Start Here
 
There is currently great interest in electric vehicles. Start here to learn what it's all about, and how to build one yourself!

General EV Information:

Thrifty EV Conversions:
ForkenSwift
Electro-Metro
VW Bug

The "Cheap Electric Cars" Blog Series
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

EV Cycle Conversions:
Ben's Kawasaki
Voltzilla/Forkencycle
XB-600 Scooter

Other pages and forums:
EV Photo Album: Our Electric Cars on the Web
DIY Electric Car Forums - Electric Vehicle Build and Conversion Community

Controller Info:
Alltrax Document Depot
Curtis Controller Sheets

Conversion Manuals:
EL-Ninja Motorcycle Conversion
Convert It
BUILD YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR - CHEAP (Instructional DVD)

Also, yes, electrics can go fast.
You don't need to start anymore threads about either the Killacycle or the White Zombie, as we have heard of them already!


Please add other links and information you think would be useful for "first-timers" to learn more about electric vehicles.

I will add and organize it to the begining here, so we can "sticky" it as a resource.
:cool:

NeilBlanchard 01-13-2009 02:32 PM

Hi,

Here's a homebuilt EV that I just came across:

Jason Bloomberg's 1993 Eagle Summit Wagon

The builder wrote this on the Talk of the Nation comments on the second part of the show today, which is on EV's:

Quote:

Not only would I buy an electric car, but I actually already have one and intend to get another. Mine is 15 years old, goes up to 70 mph and can travel up to 50 mile. I drive it about 30 miles almost every every day. It is not a hybrid. It is 100% electric. You can see it at: Jason Bloomberg's 1993 Eagle Summit Wagon It is time that we as a nation stop being mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed manure). We should have told GM that they had to put the EV-1 back into production as a condition of their getting any taxpayer money! I bought this car and started driving it because I wanted to be putting less pollution in the air. I am working finding a way to set up solar panels and a wind-charger to offset my electrical usage (about $3.00 / MONTH) to further reduce my "carbon footprint." But, even if this was powered by the dirtiest coal plant in the U.S. it would still be generating 1/16th the pollution of the cleanest hybrid on the road.
Looks pretty good!

jwxr7 03-11-2009 12:22 PM

I play with this site sometimes when I'm feeling the itch to convert a car to electric.
EV Calculator

I like this one too for battery comparisons.
Battery percent of discharge comparison

aerohead 04-28-2009 03:18 PM

EV net efficiency flow chart
 
Yesterday,there was a discussion about the "actual" efficiency of a plug-in EV,from"wheeling" the power onto the grid,to the power delivered to the road surface from the traction drive in the car itself.I went into my records and found the following.The data is from GM Research Labs and Electric Power Research Institute.The numbers aren't current but may give some insight.

(1) Electric utility generation plants are given efficiencies from 34-50%,with a combined-cycle unit scoring the highest.

(2) Power transmission losses delivering the power over the grid to the household give an efficiency of 93-94%.

(3) Battery chargers are given a 90% efficiency.

(4) Storage batteries on board the car are given 80% efficiency ( this has nothing to do with it's power density).

(5) Controllers are given efficiencies as high as 98% ( Alan Cocconi's AC Propulsion using MOSFET and IGFET power transistors){his CRX loses 2kW in heat loss during full acceleration}.

(6) Electric motors are given a range of efficiency,from 75% for a conventional DC device,to 92% for a GM MagnaQuench,and 96% for Unique Mobility in Colorado.

(7) If the EV uses any type of powertrain from the motor to the drive wheel,it might be conservatively estimated at 95% efficiency.

Considering the chain of events to power down the road in my home-built Ghia EV,if I use coal-fired electricity from a conventional power plant,I might expect an overall thermal efficiency on the order of 15.4%,compared to the chemical energy of the coal.With the combined-cycle plant,overall efficiency would be 30.2%.

For a comparison,an IC-powered car,operating at constant speed at max BSFC can achieve 40% efficiency.This is why the Chevy VOLT is configured the way it is.Alternate,renewable forms of power wheeled onto the grid obviously get around the fossil-fuel CO2 challenge,however its important to realize how much energy is lost moving it around and from transforming it from one form to another.

I like Ed Begley Jr's rooftop PV array-charged EV. This is along the lines of what Hunter and Amory Lovins were advocating a couple decades ago.

theunchosen 04-28-2009 04:47 PM

Since Aero posted the EV chain I'll do the fossil

Out of a 43 gallon drum 19 gallons become gasoline

drum contains 6.1x10^9j and 6-7 gallons form diesel so 26x 1.3x10^8j/(61x10^8+energy consumed in coal to refine(29.8x10^8j))=37.5%

transmission cost of 7%=34.9%

ICE efficiency typically ranges around 30% but we'll say its the max on any gasoline engine system(40% efficient) =14.0%

Transmission cost 10%=12.6%

very generous efficiency of 12.6% for the total ICE system

dcb 04-28-2009 06:11 PM

plus the electricity used to crack the crude as you noted.

aerohead 04-28-2009 06:14 PM

fossil
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theunchosen (Post 101077)
Since Aero posted the EV chain I'll do the fossil

Out of a 43 gallon drum 19 gallons become gasoline

drum contains 6.1x10^9j and 6-7 gallons form diesel so 26x 1.3x10^8j/(61x10^8+energy consumed in coal to refine(29.8x10^8j))=37.5%

transmission cost of 7%=34.9%

ICE efficiency typically ranges around 30% but we'll say its the max on any gasoline engine system(40% efficient) =14.0%

Transmission cost 10%=12.6%

very generous efficiency of 12.6% for the total ICE system

Generous indeed!With respect to the VOLT we have to consider 70% of the gasoline would be lifted,refined,and loaded in a foreign country,then transported(under US NAVY escort) to U.S.'shores,where it would be off-loaded and make it's way by truck transport and pipeline,stations receiving their fuel from tanker,via a bulk-fuel terminal.Then the electricity to lift it through the dispensing pump into the vehicle.For crude oil transports,total refining energy would have to be factored into the energy expended by the NAVY, Coast Guard,Marine Corps,Seals,ARMY,Air Force,Delta Force,CIA,NRO,NSA,FBI,etc.,would not be reflected into the pump price nor "street" energy balance.In 1991,these costs were estimated at $2.31/gallon.I have no idea how one could arrive at the amount of energy this activity absorbs.So one kinda turns a jaundiced eye towards gasoline an Diesel when contemplating the big picture.

taredog 08-15-2009 11:54 PM

is anyone right?
 
Good thread. Good arguments. Statistics can be skewed any way you want.

Which is cheaper? No one really knows, now do they?

aereohead - i suppose there are no security costs for the magically produced electricity. Let's not forget that some US power plants run off oil. The nuke plants might also have a security cost? The natural gas? The coal industry? Naa, that's just free and has nobody looking over it.

The EV people should keep up the good work. Just remember that when you pound that green drum about what a good citizen you are, you have only moved your carbon footprint to somebody else's back yard. Guess that means you don't give a flyin f about your fellow human or the world in general.

There seems to be a lot of the NIMBY syndrome going on world wide. "I need power for my (insert here whatever, in you cases, cars) but no more generation plants or transmission lines. At least not near ME.

I singled you out because you chose to bring up

Quote:

For crude oil transports,total refining energy would have to be factored into the energy expended by the NAVY, Coast Guard,Marine Corps,Seals,ARMY,Air Force,Delta Force,CIA,NRO,NSA,FBI,etc.,would not be reflected into the pump price nor "street" energy balance.In 1991,these costs were estimated at $2.31/gallon.
The highest average gas price for 1991 was $1.169. So that means the actual price should be $3.479? At an average price of 9.08 cents per kWh in 1991, what do you suppose the actual cost of security on the generation, transmission and distribution was? And what agencies were involved? Now in 2009 what security do suppose might be involved?

Focus on your objective, developing electric vehicles, and stop arguing about who is "better" All vehicles use too much energy and we need to address that. We are way too dependant on foriegn sources of energy and need to address that. Just stop always having to be right or wrong!

NeilBlanchard 01-06-2010 03:35 PM

Commuting in electric cars, regenerative braking, and ultracapacitors
 
Here's an excellent video to watch, all about EV's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCArK17Hu1M

Quote:

Carnegie Mellon Robotics Institute professor Illah Nourbakhsh presents the CREATE Lab project ChargeCar, a community approach to electric cars.
The lecture is part of the Sustainability and Computer Science Seminar, a forum for discussion of ways in which computer science can and will contribute to sustainability, energy, and the environment, and to foster greater consciousness, conversation, and collaboration in this area.

For more on CREATE Lab, visit: CREATE
If you have any interest in EV's at all -- you should watch this video!

What the professor (in the video) is saying is that using a supercapacitor in conjunction with the battery, you make huge gains in getting more regenerative braking, and you unload the batteries in city driving in particular. The batteries "see" as much as a 40% decrease in load.

Directly related to this is something called "split-pi" which lets you use the supercaps with batteries that run at a higher voltage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-pi

Apparently, high voltage capacitors are very expensive, and unless you use low voltage batteries and drive motors (and the associated heavy cabling), the cost becomes prohibitive. So, if you can raise the voltage using the split-pi power converter -- which is 2-way, then you can use higher voltage batteries and motor, and use smaller gauge cabling, too.

Here's a video demonstration of the split-pi -- it is software controlled, and can double the DC voltage in one direction, and in the other direction, it can cut it by up to half.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbXPkpsN5A

aerohead 05-08-2010 04:18 PM

statistics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taredog (Post 121548)
Good thread. Good arguments. Statistics can be skewed any way you want.

Which is cheaper? No one really knows, now do they?

aereohead - i suppose there are no security costs for the magically produced electricity. Let's not forget that some US power plants run off oil. The nuke plants might also have a security cost? The natural gas? The coal industry? Naa, that's just free and has nobody looking over it.

The EV people should keep up the good work. Just remember that when you pound that green drum about what a good citizen you are, you have only moved your carbon footprint to somebody else's back yard. Guess that means you don't give a flyin f about your fellow human or the world in general.

There seems to be a lot of the NIMBY syndrome going on world wide. "I need power for my (insert here whatever, in you cases, cars) but no more generation plants or transmission lines. At least not near ME.

I singled you out because you chose to bring up



The highest average gas price for 1991 was $1.169. So that means the actual price should be $3.479? At an average price of 9.08 cents per kWh in 1991, what do you suppose the actual cost of security on the generation, transmission and distribution was? And what agencies were involved? Now in 2009 what security do suppose might be involved?

Focus on your objective, developing electric vehicles, and stop arguing about who is "better" All vehicles use too much energy and we need to address that. We are way too dependant on foriegn sources of energy and need to address that. Just stop always having to be right or wrong!

taredog,great post!
I'm in town and don't have all my materials with me.As usual.
From my memory,I recall an estimate to cover escort costs,Desert Shield,etc.,to get Middle East crude to the U.S.,at around $5.00/gallon at the pump.
Another estimate was over $25/barrel.
I think all production infrastructure incurs security costs.I'm also given to understand that certain industries receive extremely lucrative taxpayer-funded subsidies which are never reflected on a ledger sheet or mentioned at a stockholder meeting.
Personaly,I have no qualms about doing whatever it will take to get our troops back home without the body-bag.
If the United States needs to run a pipeline near me ( they just did two 36-inch Natural Gas lines within a quarter mile ) ,or run an electric grid to connect Wind Turbines,fine by me.It would be zero sacrifice on my part.
I've worked at nuclear facilities and weapons plants.You don't just walk in there.Shipments are 'supervised'.
Power stations are 'gated'.
So far,My EV experience is limited to home solar-PV-charged gell-cell Pb technology.Not much more than educational 'toys.' I haven't used grid power yet.I lived off the grid for 10-years.
If I can mimic the California couple I met at the 1993 Solar races in Phoenix,with a home-charged PV-EV for local commuting I'll be satisfied to some extent.The donar car is a '70 Ghia,chopped-top,with bubble canopy,and some aero.Just low-tech for immediate future.
Perhaps those who will charge their EV,off-peak,with grid power will remember where that power originates and what and who it takes to make that happen.They're not lost on me.
I have no control over what others have, or will do.They're the boss of that.
If I have in anyway,dis-respected the unsung many,who make everything happen for my convenience,then I hope they will accept my apology.
I've attempted to walk the walk, dance the dance, and give something back since 1973.I only can hope I'm on a proper path.

NeilBlanchard 01-30-2013 11:19 AM

Edmunds has a 9 EV car comparison, with some useful real world data:

Testing Electric Vehicles in the Real World

Edmunds Embraces EVs by Putting 9 EVs Through Range Test | PluginCars.com

Here's the Edmund's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=diJj-zQ09yc

They did a decent job, though they still are stuck on some platitudes. It would be interesting for them to release the data on charging that they got - and it would be interesting to see how much it cost to drive each of these EV's per mile.

They should drive all cars they review on the same loop, and report on the cost, and the pollution, as well. And it would be really important to compare the EV ranges to what people actually drive each day; and how much money they would pay for an EV vs their current car.

They do post the kWh/100km (for all the cars except the Tesla Model S, curiously), and since their test loop is ~30MPH average, all the cars do significantly better than their EPA rating.

sheepdog 44 01-30-2013 05:05 PM

Hey, is there anyway to retrofit a drive axle to the rear wheels of a front wheel drive car? Adding cv joints and all that stuff, and then mounting a motor to it and affixing it all to the empty spare tire well?

Or any way to power the rear wheels without resorting to poor performance expensive hub motors? Id like to do it on the cheap and power it by 48-72volt lead acid system. It'd be a low performance system geared to 40mph and 10 or more miles of electric range.

Weight is an issue so it'd be 200lbs of lead acids that would provide a constant background assist at higher speeds. This would increase my mpg by displacing the minimal amount of throttle needed on level ground. Say if i held 65mpg at 55mph, maybe i'd get 85mpg at the same spot.

If i can scavenge the materials and make it as low cost as possible for every 1mpg gained i would see a better return of my investment as opposed to larger motors and lithium packs.

As an added benefit, the 48volt system batteries, controller, etc (and possibly the motor) would be easily dismantled from my car and installed into an electric motorcycle.

Anyways that is the low cost system i've been contemplating for the past few months.

NeilBlanchard 07-01-2013 09:29 AM

Question: do the Ultragauge or the ScanGauge work on EV's? I ask especially for the i MiEV since it has such a information drought...

janvos39 08-09-2013 11:30 AM

Eindhoven brengt auto op zonne-energie naar de openbare weg - Video's - Tweakers

An electric four person car soon on the Dutch roads. Using solarpower.

NeilBlanchard 08-09-2013 03:25 PM

If someone who speaks Dutch can answer this - the video shows the Stella with the solar PV cells covered up, and my guess is that they are testing the battery and the drivetrain as a 'stand alone' system?

The rollcage is a new addition since the last video, and it seems to have stabilized the whole structure.

bennelson 09-22-2013 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 378631)
Question: do the Ultragauge or the ScanGauge work on EV's? I ask especially for the i MiEV since it has such a information drought...

I asked the same question of somebody who has an iMIEV, and apparently those ODB2 tools will NOT work with it.

NeilBlanchard 09-22-2013 01:44 PM

The i MiEV forum does have a solution for this:

Mitsubishi I-Miev Forum • View topic - Canion

http://i.imgur.com/RApJ3VD.jpg

Daox 09-23-2013 09:38 AM

That is awesome! That is something that was cool (just for the, I'm a car kind of people), and also sadly lacking for the geeky side of me in the miev.

Skillfulist 10-12-2013 12:20 PM

Cheap DIY EV ideas
 
Hello, I'm planning on doing a cheap conversion and I was wondering on what I would need for a car in a town that's roughly 8-10 miles in diameter.

mechman600 10-12-2013 03:34 PM

A cheap 72V conversion would likely be plenty. Check out the links in the first post of this thread. All three provided excellent inspiration for my conversion.

Ryland 10-12-2013 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skillfulist (Post 395222)
Hello, I'm planning on doing a cheap conversion and I was wondering on what I would need for a car in a town that's roughly 8-10 miles in diameter.

Make a log of your driving and your needs and figure that if you want a lead acid pack to last more then a year or two that you need to keep it above 50% state of charge, then go with as high of voltage as you can afford.

aerostealth 04-26-2018 01:59 AM

The Quiet Revolution

Link to my blog at EV World titled "The Quiet Revolution". There are links to three You Tube Videos embedded in the blog concerning EV's. Two of them are to Fully Charged and one of them is a 14 minute video I shot on a power point presentation I am working on about EV's.

aerostealth 04-30-2018 07:10 PM

https://youtu.be/sbRsnMZlznk

Part one of two of a power point presentation on the advantages of electric vehicle I have been working on for the last few weeks. I should be able to get part 2 uploaded tonight.

aerostealth 04-30-2018 10:33 PM

https://youtu.be/x_ijzQChAUo

Part Two of two of our Power Point presentation on Electric Vehicles titled The Quiet Revolution.

aerostealth 05-16-2018 06:05 PM

ICE Combined/City/Highway kWh per 100 miles
Honda Fit Chevy Spark
93/137/78 99/143/75
Nissan Versa Toyota Camry
102/143/81 102/164/67
Honda Accord Hyundai Accent
106/156/78 106/164/81
Toyota Corolla Honda Civic
102/143/76 102/156/72
Toyota Avalon RAV-4 Hybrid
137/205/96 106/126/91
Honda CRV Toyota Highlander
117/164/89 149/219/102
Hon. Ridgeline Ford XLT 2.7 L
164/252/113 173/252/126
Chevy Silverado
205/298/143
BEV Combined/City/Highway kWh per 100 miles
Tesla-S P85D Tesla-X 90D
38/57/33 36/41/39
Chevy Bolt Nissan Leaf
31/29/36 33/29/36

aerostealth 05-16-2018 06:09 PM

Quotes I remember from "Fully Charged" emissions from a EV charged with dirty coal fired electricity mine to wheel 40 grams per kilometer, emissions from a ICE car 125 grams per kilometer, but a ICE car well to wheel 450 grams per kilometer. P.S. We charge our EV with solar panels, no transmission loses, zero emissions.

aerostealth 11-06-2018 11:36 PM

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4018...4508662563910/

My talk about electric vehicles to the Las Cruces, NM City Council starts at the 28 minute mark and ends at the 47 minute mark.

aerohead 01-05-2019 04:09 PM

SOLO joins the club
 
Canada's Electa Mechanicas's SOLO,enclosed,3-wheel,100-mile range, EV has hit the California market.
It sells for a 'little' over $15,000 US,and is allowed to access the H.O.V. lanes.
It has a coefficient of aerodynamic drag of 0.24,like a Tesla Model S/X.
It's easy to find on GOOGLE
If California law asn't changed from when I emigrated,the Highway Patrol will allow you to 'drive' between stalled,gridlock traffic if you can physically fit through.

Piotrsko 01-07-2019 11:41 AM

That's what we used to call splitting the lane and it although is NOT illegal, it is frowned upon. My Harley dresser with crash bars barely fit except for the left hand or right hand most lanes. Big @$#+%& truck mirrors were an issue too.

Nice thing about the harley was when someone decided to be smart and open their door as I went by. Harley didn't care, door did.

Lokhankin 01-20-2021 01:52 PM

New 2021 USA administration should speed up the removing of ICE, promoting the autonomous EVs, thus killing the private car ownership. All in great Global "reset".

Flakbadger 03-11-2021 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokhankin (Post 641124)
New 2021 USA administration should speed up the removing of ICE, promoting the autonomous EVs, thus killing the private car ownership. All in great Global "reset".

I have absolutely no idea what this means. Discontinuing internal combustion is a requirement for the world's continued existence. Autonomous EV's are a great idea but I don't see that being feasible for a little while yet.

Killing private car ownership--that's really not possible in places like America, where we pretty much refined urban sprawl into an art form. I'd take mass transit (coronavirus notwithstanding) in a heartbeat if it was

A) Not filled with crackheads
B) Available in my area
C) Comparable in travel time to driving

But any mass transit in my area is crackhead-filled and slow compared to just getting in my car and driving.

As for global "reset," I feel like I'm missing something here.

freebeard 03-11-2021 12:51 PM

Quote:

Discontinuing internal combustion is a requirement for the world's continued existence.
That's a rather harsh way of saying we can't go on like this. External combustion Okay then?
Quote:

As for global "reset," I feel like I'm missing something here.
Capital G, capital R. It's the sixteen years plan that was interrupted for the last four years.

Else maybe the Earth flips on it's axis. ....again!

Flakbadger 03-11-2021 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 643985)
That's a rather harsh way of saying we can't go on like this. External combustion Okay then?

Capital G, capital R. It's the sixteen years plan that was interrupted for the last four years.

Else maybe the Earth flips on it's axis. ....again!

Ah gotcha. IDK man, to be perfectly honest my personal outlook on humanity is rather bleak, and I don't see us making things "better," ever. Too much human history to back up my point of view. At least in my opinion!

redpoint5 03-11-2021 01:11 PM

Things are always getting better and will continue to do so until it doesn't, likely catastrophically. Every measurable metric of human well-being has improved over the last 200 years, mostly thanks to exploiting fossil fuels.

RustyLugNut 03-11-2021 01:46 PM

UpVote multiple times if I could.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 643992)
Things are always getting better and will continue to do so until it doesn't, likely catastrophically. Every measurable metric of human well-being has improved over the last 200 years, mostly thanks to exploiting fossil fuels.

The trick is to transition to our new forms of energy without upsetting that upward march.

People are simply too comfortable in their ideologies to work on those transitions. . . now.

freebeard 03-11-2021 01:54 PM

Quote:

IDK man, to be perfectly honest my personal outlook on humanity is rather bleak, and I don't see us making things "better," ever. Too much human history to back up my point of view.
I understand, it's a glass half-(empty)(full) situation. I think humanity itself is Okay and constantly improving but *something* is riding us like a pony.

The 1960s Sexual Revolution turned into Kindergarten Story Time.

Internet turned into a Panopticon.

Quote:

Buy the Ticket, Take the Ride
Hunter S. Thompson


Flakbadger 03-11-2021 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 643998)
I understand, it's a glass half-(empty)(full) situation. I think humanity itself is Okay and constantly improving but *something* is riding us like a pony.

The 1960s Sexual Revolution turned into Kindergarten Story Time.

Internet turned into a Panopticon.

I feel like humans in general are alright, but that "humanity" as a whole has turned to, and relied upon, completely sociopathic constructs to run and build things. That the heartless nature of the organization that humanity relies on and actively builds into is unsustainable and incompatible with long-term existence. The world is built on expansion and on easy access to unlimited resources, only we're past how far we can sustainably expand, and resources aren't unlimited.

freebeard 03-11-2021 02:54 PM

That's pretty accurate.

The hippys were right, we need to get ourselves back to the Garden. Part of the problem is Fallacy of the Excluded Middle, or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma.

"Business as usual" or no? What about we all live in tepees?* What about a little of that?**

*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-B7327eVk

** Dennis Hopper in Easy Rider

aerostealth 06-26-2021 07:30 PM

Got tired of stopping to figure this out from the data my vehicle was giving me so I made a table. Also it shows just what a loser 120 volt charging is which is something few people seem to understand.

Efficiency Table for Electric Vehicle 3.3 to 5.2 Miles per kWh

By John Gilkison
June 26, 2021
Miles / kWh Watt Hours / Mile MPG at 90% MPG at 80%
3.3 303 100 90
3.4 294 103 92
3.5 286 106 94
3.6 277 109 97
3.7 270 112 100
3.8 263 115 102
3.9 256 118 105
4.0 250 121 108
4.1 244 138 123
4.2 238 127 113
4.3 232 131* 116
4.4 227 133* 119
4.5 222 137* 121
4.6 217 140* 124
4.7 213 142* 127
4.8 208 146* 129*
4.9 204 149* 132*
5.0 200 152* 135*
5.1 196 155* 138*
5.2 192 158* 140*

California98Civic 06-26-2021 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerostealth (Post 651420)
Efficiency Table for Electric Vehicle 3.3 to 5.2 Miles per kWh

By John Gilkison
June 26, 2021
...

Interesting. But ? I don't understand why you posted it.


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