Electric Vehicle Information - Start Here
There is currently great interest in electric vehicles. Start here to learn what it's all about, and how to build one yourself!
General EV Information: Thrifty EV Conversions: ForkenSwift Electro-Metro VW Bug The "Cheap Electric Cars" Blog Series Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 EV Cycle Conversions: Ben's Kawasaki Voltzilla/Forkencycle XB-600 Scooter Other pages and forums: EV Photo Album: Our Electric Cars on the Web DIY Electric Car Forums - Electric Vehicle Build and Conversion Community Controller Info: Alltrax Document Depot Curtis Controller Sheets Conversion Manuals: EL-Ninja Motorcycle Conversion Convert It BUILD YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR - CHEAP (Instructional DVD) Also, yes, electrics can go fast. You don't need to start anymore threads about either the Killacycle or the White Zombie, as we have heard of them already! Please add other links and information you think would be useful for "first-timers" to learn more about electric vehicles. I will add and organize it to the begining here, so we can "sticky" it as a resource. :cool: |
Hi,
Here's a homebuilt EV that I just came across: Jason Bloomberg's 1993 Eagle Summit Wagon The builder wrote this on the Talk of the Nation comments on the second part of the show today, which is on EV's: Quote:
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I play with this site sometimes when I'm feeling the itch to convert a car to electric.
EV Calculator I like this one too for battery comparisons. Battery percent of discharge comparison |
EV net efficiency flow chart
Yesterday,there was a discussion about the "actual" efficiency of a plug-in EV,from"wheeling" the power onto the grid,to the power delivered to the road surface from the traction drive in the car itself.I went into my records and found the following.The data is from GM Research Labs and Electric Power Research Institute.The numbers aren't current but may give some insight.
(1) Electric utility generation plants are given efficiencies from 34-50%,with a combined-cycle unit scoring the highest. (2) Power transmission losses delivering the power over the grid to the household give an efficiency of 93-94%. (3) Battery chargers are given a 90% efficiency. (4) Storage batteries on board the car are given 80% efficiency ( this has nothing to do with it's power density). (5) Controllers are given efficiencies as high as 98% ( Alan Cocconi's AC Propulsion using MOSFET and IGFET power transistors){his CRX loses 2kW in heat loss during full acceleration}. (6) Electric motors are given a range of efficiency,from 75% for a conventional DC device,to 92% for a GM MagnaQuench,and 96% for Unique Mobility in Colorado. (7) If the EV uses any type of powertrain from the motor to the drive wheel,it might be conservatively estimated at 95% efficiency. Considering the chain of events to power down the road in my home-built Ghia EV,if I use coal-fired electricity from a conventional power plant,I might expect an overall thermal efficiency on the order of 15.4%,compared to the chemical energy of the coal.With the combined-cycle plant,overall efficiency would be 30.2%. For a comparison,an IC-powered car,operating at constant speed at max BSFC can achieve 40% efficiency.This is why the Chevy VOLT is configured the way it is.Alternate,renewable forms of power wheeled onto the grid obviously get around the fossil-fuel CO2 challenge,however its important to realize how much energy is lost moving it around and from transforming it from one form to another. I like Ed Begley Jr's rooftop PV array-charged EV. This is along the lines of what Hunter and Amory Lovins were advocating a couple decades ago. |
Since Aero posted the EV chain I'll do the fossil
Out of a 43 gallon drum 19 gallons become gasoline drum contains 6.1x10^9j and 6-7 gallons form diesel so 26x 1.3x10^8j/(61x10^8+energy consumed in coal to refine(29.8x10^8j))=37.5% transmission cost of 7%=34.9% ICE efficiency typically ranges around 30% but we'll say its the max on any gasoline engine system(40% efficient) =14.0% Transmission cost 10%=12.6% very generous efficiency of 12.6% for the total ICE system |
plus the electricity used to crack the crude as you noted.
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fossil
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is anyone right?
Good thread. Good arguments. Statistics can be skewed any way you want.
Which is cheaper? No one really knows, now do they? aereohead - i suppose there are no security costs for the magically produced electricity. Let's not forget that some US power plants run off oil. The nuke plants might also have a security cost? The natural gas? The coal industry? Naa, that's just free and has nobody looking over it. The EV people should keep up the good work. Just remember that when you pound that green drum about what a good citizen you are, you have only moved your carbon footprint to somebody else's back yard. Guess that means you don't give a flyin f about your fellow human or the world in general. There seems to be a lot of the NIMBY syndrome going on world wide. "I need power for my (insert here whatever, in you cases, cars) but no more generation plants or transmission lines. At least not near ME. I singled you out because you chose to bring up Quote:
Focus on your objective, developing electric vehicles, and stop arguing about who is "better" All vehicles use too much energy and we need to address that. We are way too dependant on foriegn sources of energy and need to address that. Just stop always having to be right or wrong! |
Commuting in electric cars, regenerative braking, and ultracapacitors
Here's an excellent video to watch, all about EV's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCArK17Hu1M Quote:
What the professor (in the video) is saying is that using a supercapacitor in conjunction with the battery, you make huge gains in getting more regenerative braking, and you unload the batteries in city driving in particular. The batteries "see" as much as a 40% decrease in load. Directly related to this is something called "split-pi" which lets you use the supercaps with batteries that run at a higher voltage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-pi Apparently, high voltage capacitors are very expensive, and unless you use low voltage batteries and drive motors (and the associated heavy cabling), the cost becomes prohibitive. So, if you can raise the voltage using the split-pi power converter -- which is 2-way, then you can use higher voltage batteries and motor, and use smaller gauge cabling, too. Here's a video demonstration of the split-pi -- it is software controlled, and can double the DC voltage in one direction, and in the other direction, it can cut it by up to half. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbXPkpsN5A |
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I'm in town and don't have all my materials with me.As usual. From my memory,I recall an estimate to cover escort costs,Desert Shield,etc.,to get Middle East crude to the U.S.,at around $5.00/gallon at the pump. Another estimate was over $25/barrel. I think all production infrastructure incurs security costs.I'm also given to understand that certain industries receive extremely lucrative taxpayer-funded subsidies which are never reflected on a ledger sheet or mentioned at a stockholder meeting. Personaly,I have no qualms about doing whatever it will take to get our troops back home without the body-bag. If the United States needs to run a pipeline near me ( they just did two 36-inch Natural Gas lines within a quarter mile ) ,or run an electric grid to connect Wind Turbines,fine by me.It would be zero sacrifice on my part. I've worked at nuclear facilities and weapons plants.You don't just walk in there.Shipments are 'supervised'. Power stations are 'gated'. So far,My EV experience is limited to home solar-PV-charged gell-cell Pb technology.Not much more than educational 'toys.' I haven't used grid power yet.I lived off the grid for 10-years. If I can mimic the California couple I met at the 1993 Solar races in Phoenix,with a home-charged PV-EV for local commuting I'll be satisfied to some extent.The donar car is a '70 Ghia,chopped-top,with bubble canopy,and some aero.Just low-tech for immediate future. Perhaps those who will charge their EV,off-peak,with grid power will remember where that power originates and what and who it takes to make that happen.They're not lost on me. I have no control over what others have, or will do.They're the boss of that. If I have in anyway,dis-respected the unsung many,who make everything happen for my convenience,then I hope they will accept my apology. I've attempted to walk the walk, dance the dance, and give something back since 1973.I only can hope I'm on a proper path. |
Edmunds has a 9 EV car comparison, with some useful real world data:
Testing Electric Vehicles in the Real World Edmunds Embraces EVs by Putting 9 EVs Through Range Test | PluginCars.com Here's the Edmund's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=diJj-zQ09yc They did a decent job, though they still are stuck on some platitudes. It would be interesting for them to release the data on charging that they got - and it would be interesting to see how much it cost to drive each of these EV's per mile. They should drive all cars they review on the same loop, and report on the cost, and the pollution, as well. And it would be really important to compare the EV ranges to what people actually drive each day; and how much money they would pay for an EV vs their current car. They do post the kWh/100km (for all the cars except the Tesla Model S, curiously), and since their test loop is ~30MPH average, all the cars do significantly better than their EPA rating. |
Hey, is there anyway to retrofit a drive axle to the rear wheels of a front wheel drive car? Adding cv joints and all that stuff, and then mounting a motor to it and affixing it all to the empty spare tire well?
Or any way to power the rear wheels without resorting to poor performance expensive hub motors? Id like to do it on the cheap and power it by 48-72volt lead acid system. It'd be a low performance system geared to 40mph and 10 or more miles of electric range. Weight is an issue so it'd be 200lbs of lead acids that would provide a constant background assist at higher speeds. This would increase my mpg by displacing the minimal amount of throttle needed on level ground. Say if i held 65mpg at 55mph, maybe i'd get 85mpg at the same spot. If i can scavenge the materials and make it as low cost as possible for every 1mpg gained i would see a better return of my investment as opposed to larger motors and lithium packs. As an added benefit, the 48volt system batteries, controller, etc (and possibly the motor) would be easily dismantled from my car and installed into an electric motorcycle. Anyways that is the low cost system i've been contemplating for the past few months. |
Question: do the Ultragauge or the ScanGauge work on EV's? I ask especially for the i MiEV since it has such a information drought...
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Eindhoven brengt auto op zonne-energie naar de openbare weg - Video's - Tweakers
An electric four person car soon on the Dutch roads. Using solarpower. |
If someone who speaks Dutch can answer this - the video shows the Stella with the solar PV cells covered up, and my guess is that they are testing the battery and the drivetrain as a 'stand alone' system?
The rollcage is a new addition since the last video, and it seems to have stabilized the whole structure. |
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The i MiEV forum does have a solution for this:
Mitsubishi I-Miev Forum • View topic - Canion http://i.imgur.com/RApJ3VD.jpg |
That is awesome! That is something that was cool (just for the, I'm a car kind of people), and also sadly lacking for the geeky side of me in the miev.
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Cheap DIY EV ideas
Hello, I'm planning on doing a cheap conversion and I was wondering on what I would need for a car in a town that's roughly 8-10 miles in diameter.
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A cheap 72V conversion would likely be plenty. Check out the links in the first post of this thread. All three provided excellent inspiration for my conversion.
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The Quiet Revolution
Link to my blog at EV World titled "The Quiet Revolution". There are links to three You Tube Videos embedded in the blog concerning EV's. Two of them are to Fully Charged and one of them is a 14 minute video I shot on a power point presentation I am working on about EV's. |
https://youtu.be/sbRsnMZlznk
Part one of two of a power point presentation on the advantages of electric vehicle I have been working on for the last few weeks. I should be able to get part 2 uploaded tonight. |
https://youtu.be/x_ijzQChAUo
Part Two of two of our Power Point presentation on Electric Vehicles titled The Quiet Revolution. |
ICE Combined/City/Highway kWh per 100 miles
Honda Fit Chevy Spark 93/137/78 99/143/75 Nissan Versa Toyota Camry 102/143/81 102/164/67 Honda Accord Hyundai Accent 106/156/78 106/164/81 Toyota Corolla Honda Civic 102/143/76 102/156/72 Toyota Avalon RAV-4 Hybrid 137/205/96 106/126/91 Honda CRV Toyota Highlander 117/164/89 149/219/102 Hon. Ridgeline Ford XLT 2.7 L 164/252/113 173/252/126 Chevy Silverado 205/298/143 BEV Combined/City/Highway kWh per 100 miles Tesla-S P85D Tesla-X 90D 38/57/33 36/41/39 Chevy Bolt Nissan Leaf 31/29/36 33/29/36 |
Quotes I remember from "Fully Charged" emissions from a EV charged with dirty coal fired electricity mine to wheel 40 grams per kilometer, emissions from a ICE car 125 grams per kilometer, but a ICE car well to wheel 450 grams per kilometer. P.S. We charge our EV with solar panels, no transmission loses, zero emissions.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/4018...4508662563910/
My talk about electric vehicles to the Las Cruces, NM City Council starts at the 28 minute mark and ends at the 47 minute mark. |
SOLO joins the club
Canada's Electa Mechanicas's SOLO,enclosed,3-wheel,100-mile range, EV has hit the California market.
It sells for a 'little' over $15,000 US,and is allowed to access the H.O.V. lanes. It has a coefficient of aerodynamic drag of 0.24,like a Tesla Model S/X. It's easy to find on GOOGLE If California law asn't changed from when I emigrated,the Highway Patrol will allow you to 'drive' between stalled,gridlock traffic if you can physically fit through. |
That's what we used to call splitting the lane and it although is NOT illegal, it is frowned upon. My Harley dresser with crash bars barely fit except for the left hand or right hand most lanes. Big @$#+%& truck mirrors were an issue too.
Nice thing about the harley was when someone decided to be smart and open their door as I went by. Harley didn't care, door did. |
New 2021 USA administration should speed up the removing of ICE, promoting the autonomous EVs, thus killing the private car ownership. All in great Global "reset".
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Killing private car ownership--that's really not possible in places like America, where we pretty much refined urban sprawl into an art form. I'd take mass transit (coronavirus notwithstanding) in a heartbeat if it was A) Not filled with crackheads B) Available in my area C) Comparable in travel time to driving But any mass transit in my area is crackhead-filled and slow compared to just getting in my car and driving. As for global "reset," I feel like I'm missing something here. |
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Else maybe the Earth flips on it's axis. ....again! |
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Things are always getting better and will continue to do so until it doesn't, likely catastrophically. Every measurable metric of human well-being has improved over the last 200 years, mostly thanks to exploiting fossil fuels.
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UpVote multiple times if I could.
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People are simply too comfortable in their ideologies to work on those transitions. . . now. |
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The 1960s Sexual Revolution turned into Kindergarten Story Time. Internet turned into a Panopticon. Quote:
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That's pretty accurate.
The hippys were right, we need to get ourselves back to the Garden. Part of the problem is Fallacy of the Excluded Middle, or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma. "Business as usual" or no? What about we all live in tepees?* What about a little of that?** * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-B7327eVk ** Dennis Hopper in Easy Rider |
Got tired of stopping to figure this out from the data my vehicle was giving me so I made a table. Also it shows just what a loser 120 volt charging is which is something few people seem to understand.
Efficiency Table for Electric Vehicle 3.3 to 5.2 Miles per kWh By John Gilkison June 26, 2021 Miles / kWh Watt Hours / Mile MPG at 90% MPG at 80% 3.3 303 100 90 3.4 294 103 92 3.5 286 106 94 3.6 277 109 97 3.7 270 112 100 3.8 263 115 102 3.9 256 118 105 4.0 250 121 108 4.1 244 138 123 4.2 238 127 113 4.3 232 131* 116 4.4 227 133* 119 4.5 222 137* 121 4.6 217 140* 124 4.7 213 142* 127 4.8 208 146* 129* 4.9 204 149* 132* 5.0 200 152* 135* 5.1 196 155* 138* 5.2 192 158* 140* |
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