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redneck 07-06-2021 09:07 PM

Elon Musk lives out of tiny 375-square-foot prefab trailer
 
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Elon Musk lives out of tiny 375-square-foot prefab trailer

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-50-000.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-exrLurjdI



More pics and info at link.


:turtle:

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samwichse 07-06-2021 11:52 PM

Honestly, if you don't have kids, this is all you need. Well, except... maybe they make an equally-sized backyard workshop unit! LOL

Ohhh, they're truly modular and you can stack them, too.
https://www.businessinsider.com/boxa...tainers-2020-5

Neat

redneck 07-07-2021 12:45 AM

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Boxabl - company website


https://www.boxabl.com/


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freebeard 07-07-2021 02:44 AM

I hate barely tolerate little boxes made of ticky-tacky. They have muffled acoustics because of the corners and dust collects on everything because the air won't circulate.

Here's a unit with the same volume ratio the Air Force used in the one-time Republic of South Vietnam. But it doesn't have a flat roof with a piano hinge down the middle.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...6-11-00-30.png

redneck 07-07-2021 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 652102)
I hate barely tolerate little boxes made of ticky-tacky. They have muffled acoustics because of the corners and dust collects on everything because the air won't circulate.


🤔

Well, Huey Lewis says it’s “Hip to be square”... ;)


:p


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cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-07-2021 05:35 PM

Some of those newer modular housing projects are quite interesting, but I'm not sure if the average Joe would be willing to pay a premium for a trailer, even though the "sustainability" motto became so widespread.

freebeard 07-07-2021 06:16 PM

The tyranny of low expectations.

There was a time when making big spaces disruptively cheap was an expectation. I had to look this one up in a book and DDG only found this one reference online (I know there're more).

https://64.media.tumblr.com/b8338600...bigo1_1280.jpg
https://supermegalopolis.tumblr.com/...-1-section-and

J. P. Jungmann's inflatable house with inflatable furniture. ....and an inflatable pool.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-09-2021 08:11 PM

That inflatable house looks quite like a sci-fi daydream.

Ehpoulsen 07-11-2021 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 652151)
The tyranny of low expectations.

There was a time when making big spaces disruptively cheap was an expectation. I had to look this one up in a book and DDG only found this one reference online (I know there're more).

J. P. Jungmann's inflatable house with inflatable furniture. ....and an inflatable pool.

I doubt this is something that people would actually live in? Unless they are out in space or something? :confused:

freebeard 07-11-2021 02:39 PM

I agree to an extent. Living on that spiral ramp would be weird, like living in the Guggenheim Museum.

I disagree that a tiny box is the optimal shape for a house.

I live in 256 square feet. Musk's place looks palatial in comparison.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-11-2021 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehpoulsen (Post 652381)
I doubt this is something that people would actually live in? Unless they are out in space or something? :confused:

Living in an inflatable house would be quite strange, yet the sci-fi looks may be interesting. Well, maybe the same design applied to hard materials with an air layer in-between could improve thermal and acoustic comfort.

Cd 08-14-2021 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 652398)
Living in an inflatable house would be quite strange, yet the sci-fi looks may be interesting. Well, maybe the same design applied to hard materials with an air layer in-between could improve thermal and acoustic comfort.

I wouldn't have been able to resist the urge to shoot one with a pellet gun when I was a teen.

Cd 08-14-2021 03:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1628965630

I wanted to ask everyone here what their opinion is of Quonset huts.
I am interested in the Boxabl home, but am also looking at other options.
From what I have read, Quonset huts are not as efficient as normal homes.
What are some of the main drawbacks of Quonset huts ?
If you install inner walls and insulation, would this make the huts as efficient as a normal home ?
Would that just be senseless, since you are building a home within the hut itself, and could just build it without the hut in the first place ?

They are extremely cheap to buy, but what is the true cost once they are installed ?
Do they require any roofing maintainance besides caulking around the bolts and such every few years ?

I see the main drawback as the lack of space, and lack of light. How easy is it to cut sections in the roof and add skylights ? ( using corrugated plastic sheets )

I'm also looking at those round tentlike homes ( can't think of the name at the moment )

freebeard 08-14-2021 05:04 PM

Yurt?

I first took notice of the Quonset hut in the one-time Republic of South Vietnam in the late 1960s. We (2nd Civil Affairs Company ) worked with a Catholic charity and their (pastor?) was building a Quonset on a stem wall for a school library. They used brick and mortar made from cement they repulverized when it had hardened in the bag.

Anyways, putting it on a stem wall completely changes the interior space. The wall can be counter height or door height. It really opens things up.

Then I came home and build geodesic domes on stem walls out of plywood.

The WWII competitor to the Quonset hut is the Dymaxion Deployment Unit based on the Butler grain elevator with compound curve pieces added for strength..

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...C_8c14945v.jpg

The DDU was 20ft in diameter, so 314sq ft.

The modern product that supercedes the Quonset (technically a barrel vault) is Steelmaster and their any competitors. Where the Quonset had ribs and sheathing, the newer ones are a single layer of metal bent three different ways: curved/folded plate/corrugations so it's self-supporting. And they come in different sizes.

https://www.steelmasterusa.com/wp-co...t-hut-home.jpg
http://www.steelmasterusa.com/news/s...set-hut-homes/

An alternative to a stem wall would be to put one side on grade to the North and have a passive solar wall on the South.

Another alternative would be a short, wide vault with big windows on both ends.

Or an 8ft wall with 90-120 degree arc for a roof.

And you could always add a trolley top in any case.

edit: While I was gathering support material I found this in the DDU's further reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patera_Building. This is what Elon Musk uses for the SpaceX stacking bays.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-14-2021 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 654186)
I wanted to ask everyone here what their opinion is of Quonset huts.

If I were going to build a house, probably I would shape it like a Quonset hut.

Cd 08-14-2021 10:37 PM

YKYAEM when you wonder what the drag coefficient is on a house.
( I think the geodesic dome would win )

freebeard 08-15-2021 12:13 AM

Saves me saying it. :thumbup:

3/8th sphere produces lift. You have to strap them down so they don't blow away. 5/8th sphere has more frontal area but proportionately less lift so IDK.

'Any way the wind blows, doesn't matter to me, to meeee' Freddy Mercury

The zenith of the dome has the fastest local air. So, a vertical axis windmill there. Follow Julian Edgar's article on Autospeed on vibration damping for the mount.
autospeed.com.au/cms/a_112904/article
Fan above and generator below the mounting point in counterbalance.
________________

I'm thinking bout re-registering over at EcoRenovator and posting a design brief there.

ME_Andy 08-17-2021 12:43 AM

My first impression was, the Boxabl home seems pricey. $50k for 375sf. But then I compared with a tiny home builder that has very reasonable prices... And Boxabl won!

https://www.incredibletinyhomes.com/ith-pricing/

freebeard 08-17-2021 01:05 AM

My standard for comparison is the Summit Structures tiny house shell.

https://www.summitstructures-or.com/

I had them price out a 10x24. That's a shorty single-wide. 240sq ft. for $20,000. If 480sq ft is wanted, I'd put two side-by-side with a 10ft garden in between. Fence with gate at one end and veranda/gallery at the rear.

Anyways, $20K for the shell and $10K for a clip-on utility module made from OEM Tesla parts plus solar hot water, and $2K for an Ikea kitchen and bath.

rmay635703 08-17-2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 654186)
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1628965630

I wanted to ask everyone here what their opinion is of Quonset huts.
I am interested in the Boxabl home, but am also looking at other options.
From what I have read, Quonset huts are not as efficient as normal homes.
What are some of the main drawbacks of Quonset huts ?
If you install inner walls and insulation, would this make the huts as efficient as a normal home ?
Would that just be senseless, since you are building a home within the hut itself, and could just build it without the hut in the first place ?

They are extremely cheap to buy, but what is the true cost once they are installed ?
Do they require any roofing maintainance besides caulking around the bolts and such every few years ?

I see the main drawback as the lack of space, and lack of light. How easy is it to cut sections in the roof and add skylights ? ( using corrugated plastic sheets )

I'm also looking at those round tentlike homes ( can't think of the name at the moment )

Efficiency can mean many things
That hut is not space efficient

Energy efficiency is based on internal area versus contact surfaces

A short large diameter hut could be very efficient
Just need to realize the “walls” are all considered roofing area which needs more insulation

If memory serves they are illegal within the city here (for new construction) so always check your cities beautification nut jobs before going too far

Next if legal the spray on foam roofing that businesses use make excellent waterproofing and insulation on a hut could get r50+ on the outside

Lastly metal structures that are insulated are regionally limited by humidity, they are notorious for mold if placed in the wrong climate which means mandatory dehumidification if you live in the wrong environment

freebeard 08-17-2021 02:49 PM

Quote:

That hut is not space efficient

Energy efficiency is based on internal area versus contact surfaces
Beg to differ.

The half cylinder has less area than a box of the same dimensions. The minimal surface area would be an hemisphere.

But it's only half the story. Air stagnates inside a box. So long as it's not thwarted by internal partitions, the half cylinder will have an automatic air circulation driven by the temperature difference between inside and outside.

For spray on roofing Cork paint [is greater than] polyurethane foam. What's the mechanism for mold growing on metal? I know there's mold growing on the outside of the ISS, but what, trapped moisture?

jakobnev 08-17-2021 03:22 PM

Quote:

prefab trailer
What's classy if you're rich, but trashy if you're poor?

freebeard 08-17-2021 05:45 PM

Quoth whom?

A search on prefab found two mentions in the OP and yours. I showed a trailer at #4 but didn't mention the prefab part.

Anyways, trailers make an inferior tiny house. Especially once you've seen a shed delivery trailer in action.

https://www.pinehilltrailers.com/she...-shed-trailers

https://www.pinehilltrailers.com/dat...e4-2.png?w=768https://www.pinehilltrailers.com/dat...e2-2.png?w=768

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-18-2021 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 654296)
That hut is not space efficient

Seems to be still more space-efficient than some slope-roof chalets which are stereotypically Swiss.

freebeard 08-19-2021 04:04 AM

Similar as well to an A-frame cabin. Doors and windows want to be on the narrow ends.

If you lift the A-frame up onto a stem wall you get the Swiss style sloping roof.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-19-2021 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 654395)
Similar as well to an A-frame cabin.

Sometimes I refer to the A-frame cabins as a Swiss chalet :D

euromodder 08-20-2021 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 654186)
What are some of the main drawbacks of Quonset huts ?

Used to work in them for a while
Noisy in rain, hail

The traditional / industrial ones (ie Nissen or Romney huts) are not sealed, just relying on overlap
So wind & snow blows through, critters creep through

You could go for more overlap, more bolts, and/or seal the overlaps and boltholes, and the roof-to-ground area

Quote:

If you install inner walls and insulation, would this make the huts as efficient as a normal home ?
If you look at the Quonset hut as an outer shell only, and build a seperate, enclosed, insulated living space inside them, they'd be quite efficient IMO.

Trying to insulate the whole hut itself would be far more involved & costly due to shape (round, corrugated) and size

Quote:

Would that just be senseless, since you are building a home within the hut itself, and could just build it without the hut in the first place ?
I doubt you could built an outer shell cheaper than this per sq foot.

One of the issues in more traditional building is linking the outer shell and the inner insulated living spaces.
Leads to cold bridges, moisture seepage, sealing issues ...

With a quonset-style hut you can physically separate both shells


Quote:

Do they require any roofing maintainance besides caulking around the bolts and such every few years ?
Bit of corrosion control
In the industry, they stand for years and years with very little maintenance

Some wood is used on the inside, so that won't rot easily
Structural metal is on the inside as well

Quote:

I see the main drawback as the lack of space,
:confused:

Space in the industrial versions is enormous
Sure you loose floor area due to the circular shape, but a somewhat bigger shed won't cost much more, and you can get them with vertical sides as well.

You'd get lots of covered space, though not (completely) insulated
But for much stuff, you don't need fully insulated & heated space

Quote:

and lack of light. How easy is it to cut sections in the roof and add skylights ? ( using corrugated plastic sheets )
You can get them that way
No cutting out sections, you can swap steel sheeting for translucent plastic ones - but they're more prone to hail damage


These sheds come with a garage door -or two- if you want, which could easily be replaced with windows


Have a look at what a local company builds
I'd expect you also have these in the US, rather than the smallish real quonset huts

https://interloods.be/nl/over-interloods/realisaties

They even have a pic on there of where I used to work :D

freebeard 08-20-2021 03:59 PM

Quote:

I'd expect you also have these in the US, rather than the smallish real quonset huts
The other end of the scale is homeless people living in culverts.

The local equivalent, ribless single-skin construction, does have more surface area. The curved inner face can promote air circulation if the inner walls are copacetic. A double-envelope passive house is certainly possible.

Spray-on cork paint can insulate and deaden the sound of rainfall. Inside, outside or both.

You might consider a 120 degree arc oriented East-West, on the ground to the North and raised eight feet to the South with a Solar wall. as the basis of an Earthship. Six inch air gap to the North and an atrium/gallery on the South

Piotrsko 08-20-2021 06:54 PM

We did a quonset hanger in sprayfoam 12" thick with couple of cover coats of latex elastomeric. 50k btu gas heater kept it warm in winter, quiet and dry.

freebeard 08-20-2021 07:23 PM

Inside or outside?

Inside, over polyurethane foam, I'd want intumescent paint for fire safety.

Or cork.

Or outside, berm up a living roof.

Piotrsko 08-21-2021 10:44 AM

Outside

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-21-2021 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 654502)
If you look at the Quonset hut as an outer shell only, and build a seperate, enclosed, insulated living space inside them, they'd be quite efficient IMO.

I look at them mostly for their austere appearance, which would not be a problem for me if I were going to build one from scratch to use as a normal house, yet I would probably add other features such as adding dormer windows to its sides.

rmay635703 08-22-2021 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 654303)
Beg to differ.

The half cylinder has less area than a box of the same dimensions. The minimal surface area would be an hemisphere. ?

Useable area and area are different things, a slight vertical wall under the hut can solve the useable issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 654303)
But it's only half the story. Air stagnates inside a box. So long as it's not thwarted by internal partitions, the half cylinder will have an automatic air circulation driven by the temperature difference between inside and outside.

For spray on roofing Cork paint [is greater than] polyurethane foam. What's the mechanism for mold growing on metal? I know there's mold growing on the outside of the ISS, but what, trapped moisture?

Plain steel is notorious for mold problems due to constant condensation , most examples come from the container home movement when aspirating creatures are dwelling inside a box making constant humidity.

The external spray on roofing I mention is expensive but solves 99% of the issues mentioned, rust, maintenance, drafts, bridging, condensation, hardware issues are generally solved, worth noting It’s not that expensive compared to the labor and materials required to fix up a hut into an efficient home

Where I live people have converted lakeside WWII Huts to machine shops and the like but these are massive hangers with wooden end caps and interiors

freebeard 08-22-2021 01:57 PM

Quote:

Useable area and area are different things, a slight vertical wall under the hut can solve the useable issue.
Quoth myself at #14
Quote:

Anyways, putting it on a stem wall completely changes the interior space. The wall can be counter height or door height. It really opens things up.
In the PNW wooden houses are notorious for black mold when people build and enclose a structure during the rainy seasons. any thermal break will help, enamel, foam insulation or cork paint.

The concave interior surface sets up a situation when air circulates in a rolling motion if interior partitions are placed where they don't interfere (across the bay).

Cd 08-23-2021 01:18 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Thank you to everyone that has replied to my questions on Quonset huts.
While wasting time on Google Earth, I came across a plane parked in the woods.
On further research, I found out that a guy lives in the plane - a 727.
Which led to me researching plane homes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane_house
This Wikipedia page has some really eye opening claims :
( Quote )
The entire project costs less than most suburban homes and requires less maintenance. Also there might be no mortgage on the property which means the owner will own their home without debt sooner. It is also a good home for first time buyers because it is inexpensive as well as a full size house. In addition to low building costs it is inexpensive to heat and cool. The fuselage is designed to be well insulated because aircraft fuselages must hold up to extreme cold at high altitudes.[6]

The average cost to build varies from about $35,000 to $55,000. This comprises the plane, land, plumbing, electrical, heating/air conditioning, and the cost of transporting the plane from the scrap yard.
( end of quotes )
Is this just someone trolling on Wikipedia ?

Surely it can't be this cheap.

One of the main reasons I was attracted to a Quonset hut is because it looks like an aircraft hangar.
I'm crazy about planes, so naturally I'd love to actually live in one.

Anyone have any guesses if this is a real thing or not ?

I'd love to get a section of 747 and live in that, but I suspect that would cost a fortune.
Look at the room a 747 has : https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1629735362

So possibly a 737 passenger section split down the middle with a raised roof ?
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1629735148

freebeard 08-23-2021 02:45 PM

I like that interior but it looks like a conference room. Who has four couches in their living room.

Splitting a section of fuselage down the middle would ruin the monocoque structure. I'd just get as short a section of the widest fuselage as possible. The biggest problem with my 240 sq ft is it's narrow 4.5 to 1 fineness.

Cd 08-23-2021 03:48 PM

That 747 is some dudes' private jet.
It probably IS a conference room, but it shows how much space the 747 has, even in flyable condition.
So splitting a smaller jet down the middle to widen it and increase height would ruin the monocoque structure.
How would this be detrimental in this application ?

freebeard 08-23-2021 05:05 PM

Just get a bigger airplane?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...7_interior.JPG
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/C-17_interior.JPG

Cd 08-23-2021 05:20 PM

I actually saw the An-225 fly above me on the way to work several years ago. ( no cell phone then, so no pics ! )
I pulled to the side of the road, go out of my car, and stared with my jaw wide open.
What luck to see the largest aircraft ever built.
And the only one in the world !

redneck 08-23-2021 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 654626)
I like that interior but it looks like a conference room. Who has four couches in their living room.

Splitting a section of fuselage down the middle would ruin the monocoque structure. I'd just get as short a section of the widest fuselage as possible. The biggest problem with my 240 sq ft is it's narrow 4.5 to 1 fineness.

🤔

Bus...???

Genuinely curious.

Not judging... ;)


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