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-   -   Encountered a fellow urban coaster yesterday (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/encountered-fellow-urban-coaster-yesterday-24542.html)

MetroMPG 01-06-2013 05:14 PM

Encountered a fellow urban coaster yesterday
 
Occasionally, I'll be coasting toward a red traffic light and notice a driver in the lane beside me is clearly also off the accelerator earlier than you'd expect from a typical driver. Usually I find they're just trying to "out decelerate" me in order to tuck into my lane behind me to make a turn or something.

That's what I thought was happening yesterday as I coasted along in Vancouver, many hundreds of meters before the intersection (nobody behind me at the time). But the driver of the silver Corolla next to me never tucked in behind. We paced each other right up to the group of cars stopped at the light as it changed to green, and then carried on down the road to the next intersection, facing yet another red light.

Again I backed off very early, and to my surprise, so did the Corolla driver, who was now a little ahead of me.

He even changed into my lane in front of me as we approached the knot of cars moving away at the green light, because my lane happened to have the best flow.

I think that's the first time I've met another driver (other than truck drivers, who do it regularly) timing the lights to that extent in urban traffic. (Outside of an economy rally!)

Frank Lee 01-06-2013 06:37 PM

:thumbup:

NeilBlanchard 01-06-2013 06:40 PM

You know you're an ecodriver when you can recognize it in others! ;)

user removed 01-06-2013 08:15 PM

There is a very small minority of drivers who realize that the reason I start coasting so far before I get to a light is because I only care about getting there after it has changed green and the intersection is clearing, so I never have to touch the brake pedal.

Of course in the pickup truck with the cap and smooth wheel covers some know early I am interested in high mileage.

regards
Mech

wmjinman 01-06-2013 09:40 PM

Driving with the fiancee earlier, a hot rodder shot into the other lane & roared past us, whipping back in front of us before the light. Of course, when that happens, I'll usually say "hurry, hurry - you'll be late to that red light up there!!", and the fiancee has taken to saying "maybe he's gotta go to the bathroom!!!" :p So we're going along like that, making wise-ass remarks to each other about this guy's fuel-wasting, and then it dawned on me - - there was a red light up ahead, and I could use him as a "rabbit".

Now, I should explain - I have no trouble getting off the gas early & coasting. The trouble, especially in the fiancee's car, (a '97 Buick Riviera with the supercharged 3800 V-6) is it will coast FOREVER!!! I don't know what makes it roll so well, but it does. So what usually happens is I'll start coasting "early" all right (as soon as I notice I may need to), but then this car will only slow down a couple mph after a quarter mile or more (even if I pop it into neutral - doesn't matter).

So I was reading somewhere - on Wayne Gerdes site, I think - how you might want to apply the brakes EARLY so you'll slow down enough to give the light time to change & be able to carry a higher speed through the intersection. My problem is I always try to avoid the brakes like the plague, so it's very difficult for me to to kill momentum by hitting them early in cases like this. (Which often results in my having to hit them hard at the last minute, often coming to a complete stop moments before traffic starts moving again.) But I forced myself to brake early this time, and did, the light turned green, the "rabbit" got out of the way, and - well - I actually misjudged and was going slower than I needed to. Fortunately, with a little gas, we got through the intersection before the light turned yellow again, so maybe I'm learning. :o

MetroMPG 01-06-2013 10:07 PM

Fun game, eh? :D

Yeah, I think Wayne called that one "rabbit timing" (letting someone else trip sensor at the light). And early braking is sometimes a help. With the few ecodriving sessions I gave this fall, I can tell you that it definitely takes some experience for a driver (new to ecodriving) to gauge when to get off the gas, and how far his/her particular car will coast. Most people over-do it at first (letting go too soon -- sometimes it even backfires and they miss green lights).

One way I can tell winter is going away is when I start to find myself coming in "hot" -- coasting up to transitions faster than usual -- as rolling resistance starts going down with the ambient temps coming back up.

But it was definitely nice to see another eco-minded driver in the wild. I would have liked to talk to the guy if we'd be going the same way.

UFO 01-06-2013 10:29 PM

I've yet to see such a rarity.

wmjinman 01-06-2013 11:09 PM

I've obviously got some more learning to do. I find it fascinating to look at the fuel logs of some of the long-time cars on here and see the average mileage go up with time. I'm sure that's due to a dedicated effort to keep improving. In my dreams I'm hoping to one day do that too!! :thumbup:

NeilBlanchard 01-07-2013 08:36 AM

The Riviera is heavy and it has relatively low drag; if I am remembering the right model.

I think that on occasion drivers around me do notice the advantages of coasting.

user removed 01-07-2013 09:26 AM

I had one of those Riverias (95 supercharged 3.8) and it took a while to get good at anticipating the coast initial point since it was almost twice as far as anything else I had driven to that point.
Very tall final drive gearing (1700 at 70 MPH) and I think the torqe converter unlocked when you let off the gas.

regards
Mech

JRMichler 01-07-2013 09:04 PM

I saw another eco driver recently. He was ahead of me while going through two roundabouts without once touching the brakes. I was able to do the same. Nice thing was nobody behind me, so nobody got held up.

wmjinman 01-08-2013 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 349440)
The Riviera is heavy and it has relatively low drag; if I am remembering the right model.

Yes, it's the "generation 8", made from '95 to '99, and I believe they're around 4000 lbs. and have a Cd of .31 or so. I suppose that is a good combination for extra-long coasts.

And I think Old Mechanic is right about the torque converter completely "un-locking" during a power-off coast, too .... I have shifted between "neutral" and "drive" while coasting without being able to detect any difference at all.

justme1969 01-08-2013 07:56 AM

I started adding to that now mabe its extreme or even illegal but I shut car off also.
I have a stick shift Kia that I disconnected the power steering from so there is no ill effects felt by me. I go into work a little early so as to take my time and cruise@67mph on hiway. I have 45 miles of slightly rolling interstate hills and 6 stop lights 3 signs.
At night my lights flick off for 1 second as I switch off ignition when going down hills or coasting a stop light.
Works well and if light switches fast I nudge it into 4th and car rolls on with little lost.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
This is not recomended for everyone! test your car in a safe location first you may suffer steering, and brake losses!!! My car does not have these issues now Ive modified it with a second inline brake booster check valve and run purely upon the rack and pinion no hydraulics.

Sven7 01-09-2013 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMichler (Post 349583)
I saw another eco driver recently. He was ahead of me while going through two roundabouts without once touching the brakes. I was able to do the same. Nice thing was nobody behind me, so nobody got held up.

Haha, am I the only one on here that tends to treat empty roundabouts like autocross courses? Outside, heavy on the brakes, downshift, turn in late and gas it like no tomorrow... :D

There's a highway near me that has several roundabouts in a row, each connected by a quarter mile or so of straight road. I end up jetting through the corners and coasting in between. Figure it probably evens out.

Only ever met one other hypermiler on the road, and the Probe wasn't really even modded much (comparatively) at that point.

Fat Charlie 01-09-2013 01:49 PM

My favorite way through the circle is EOCing.

user removed 01-09-2013 03:38 PM

The thing I did not like about the Riveria was the dang thing just put me to sleep if I drove it for more than a couple of hours. I think I averaged close to 28 MPG in mine without any real hypermiling other than coasting. Even at 75 MPH it was like sitting in your living room couch and watching the world go by. It was the same platform as the Olds Aurora with the Olds being a 4 door. It would have been neat to see what the Riviera would do with the Olds engine which was a version of the Cadillac Northstar V8. I think it was 4 liters in the Olds. I think the empty weight was 3800 pounds.

regards
Mech

wmjinman 01-09-2013 11:44 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yup, that's how the Rivieras were, alright. Like sitting in an easy chair with the controls of a sports car in your hands. I've gotten terribly sleepy in this one, too.

I'm in a forum dedicated to "Riviera Performace" that concentrates mostly on these "generation 8" Rivvies, and there seems to be a consensus that the Olds Aurora engine is inferior to the 3800 Series-2 supercharged plant the Riv has. Someone had asked for opinions about doing an engine swap transplant with an Aurora engine, and several of the more experienced people responded that he'd be dissappointed - that he'd actually be losing performance, and especially in power-to-weight ratio.

I have no personal knowledge of any of this, never even drove an Aurora, but that's something I remembered from the Riviera Performace Forum.

rajadaja 01-10-2013 03:26 AM

I love coasting to lights and trying to time it so I have maximum speed and still a comfortable following distance. Do you ever feel like the person in front of you is purposely waiting extra time to take off because they are hoping to steal your momentum? Ha ha, yeah that's a bit paranoid I guess. I would like to see more sensors so I dont have to stop at red lights when no cross traffic is even visible, particularly when I am on an incline or at the bottom of a hill! Oh, another trick I've tried is picking the LONGEST line if we are stopping at the bottom of a hill. This way I can get at least a couple car lengths of gravity-assisted acceleration before I hit the intersection. With red lights at the top or middle of hills I try to coast as close as possible to the intersection so I have the shortest uphill distance once the light turns green

JethroBodine 01-12-2013 05:20 PM

Today, I coasted up( down really) to a stop light in the right lane with a Volvo 18 wheeler in the left lane, when I heard the driver of the truck shut off the engine and set the emergency brakes. The light had just turned red as we approached and it is a fairly long light, but I've never heard of a truck shutting off the engine at a stop.

MetroMPG 01-12-2013 05:34 PM

Neither have I.

I've never heard another car driver shut off/start up at a long light either.

JethroBodine 01-12-2013 05:55 PM

Ha, I thought of this thread immediately:thumbup:.

ever_green 01-12-2013 10:58 PM

i see some around all the time but their not too good. for example sometimes when im approaching an early red light i go on the brakes at first to lose speed then i let go and coast. this way by the time its green im at a respectable speed. sometimes one of these guys just coast without brakes and end up stopping or losing speed to around 5mph until green. they also pull off very slowly whilr i briskly accelerate to speed limit. it really pisses me off if they are in front of me lol.

HydroJim 01-13-2013 12:12 PM

One time last year I was driving to a baseball game and I noticed a guy in a car driving in the right lane going 55 in a 65. I wasn't sure if he was just driving slow or not, and since I was going to same speed, I watched him for a while. Sure enough, he was speeding up going down hills and slowing down going up them. It was the only time I've seen someone else hypermiling. :snail:

dongs 01-13-2013 10:54 PM

Every so often while stopped at a long light I'll hear someone else's engine start a few seconds before the green. More commonly I'll see another car coasting along slowly to a red light.
I had a guy in a commercial van behind me lay on his horn when I was doing that the other day. I think they call that 'hurry up an wait'

Fat Charlie 01-14-2013 09:35 AM

It's not his gas and he's getting paid by the hour. When he gets to the light he gets a little break- shift into park and take a rest.

slowmover 01-14-2013 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JethroBodine (Post 350687)
Today, I coasted up( down really) to a stop light in the right lane with a Volvo 18 wheeler in the left lane, when I heard the driver of the truck shut off the engine and set the emergency brakes. The light had just turned red as we approached and it is a fairly long light, but I've never heard of a truck shutting off the engine at a stop.

That's because my coffee thermos rolled back into the sleeper. Again. And the danged fuel pressure sensor was setting a code. Again. Needs two minutes of engine off to "re-set". After I had my coffee mug re-filled and the light changed, enough time had gone by to get the computer "re-booted".

serialk11r 01-15-2013 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dongs (Post 350900)
Every so often while stopped at a long light I'll hear someone else's engine start a few seconds before the green. More commonly I'll see another car coasting along slowly to a red light.
I had a guy in a commercial van behind me lay on his horn when I was doing that the other day. I think they call that 'hurry up an wait'

When I drove into San Francisco one time, I remember that at almost every light I heard 2 other people starting their engine along with me at the green! That was a good day. However, I haven't encountered anyone doing that for a few months now.

Prophecy99 01-17-2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven7 (Post 349977)
Haha, am I the only one on here that tends to treat empty roundabouts like autocross courses? Outside, heavy on the brakes, downshift, turn in late and gas it like no tomorrow... :D

There's a highway near me that has several roundabouts in a row, each connected by a quarter mile or so of straight road. I end up jetting through the corners and coasting in between. Figure it probably evens out.

Only ever met one other hypermiler on the road, and the Probe wasn't really even modded much (comparatively) at that point.

Nope I do too ! I love turning aggressively especially ramps etc., and if you coast enough before the turn you don't have to brake at all , and you can accel/coast throughout the turn accordingly.

The best is when you coast enough for the turn you have some typical impatient driver already on your butt who is getting off the ramp behind you also and then they do the typical braking pre turn and you just keep going and eventually gain 3-4 even 5 car lengths throughout the turn. :D

pdexta 01-25-2013 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dongs (Post 350900)
I had a guy in a commercial van behind me lay on his horn when I was doing that the other day. I think they call that 'hurry up an wait'

Stuff like that drives me nuts. I do my best not to hold anyone up, but people always get upset as I coast to a redlight.

It's always fun when they fly past you so they can stop at the light, then when it turns green they're flooring it from a stop as you coast past them at 40mph.

plasticuser 01-25-2013 11:57 PM

When I am driving in an area where the lights are closer together, I have developed a technique that seems to work better than any other I've read.

I imagine a line on the road halfway between me and the light, and act as if I am stopping at that line. I constantly revise that line so it is always half way between me and the light. I scrub off more speed earlier, and have the most chance of maintaining some momentum through the light. It's a nice form of cadence braking.

Then, when the light goes green, I take my mental note of how stale the next light is, and either continue coasting to the next light, or cadence accelerate to a line half way between me and the next light.

Sounds complicated in writing, but very simple to do.

Well, that's what I do, anyway.

Frank Lee 01-26-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Haha, am I the only one on here that tends to treat empty roundabouts like autocross courses? Outside, heavy on the brakes, downshift, turn in late and gas it like no tomorrow...
I used to do that but it is tough on tires; not cheap when you have to scrap a tire with loads of nice tread on it due to ply separation!


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