EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   The Lounge (https://ecomodder.com/forum/lounge.html)
-   -   Energy at close to cost. (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/energy-close-cost-35729.html)

JockoT 10-10-2017 01:06 PM

Energy at close to cost.
 
The Scottish government has today announced it will set up a publicly owned, not for profit, energy company, which will sell energy to the people of Scotland at "as close to cost price as possible".

redpoint5 10-10-2017 01:52 PM

...and somehow the price will be higher than if a privately owned company ran things.

BTW, if they charge any amount above cost, then where is that extra money going?

Fat Charlie 10-10-2017 02:22 PM

Overhead. Lots of overhead.

oil pan 4 10-10-2017 03:19 PM

If it wasn't going to make some one a lot of money then no one would bother doing it.

Frank Lee 10-10-2017 03:24 PM

Duhmerica's fly-over country has lots of ag cooperatives that sell fuels, and electric cooperatives for rural customers; Cooperatives are supposedly "customer owned". Their prices are no better and the profit sharing- if any- is minimal.

JockoT 10-10-2017 04:25 PM

Scotland actually has a government that looks after the Scottish people. We get free prescription medicines for all, free bus journeys for all over 60s and now cheaper energy than the big six energy companies charge.
If they just drop the quest for independence we should be okay.

jamesqf 10-10-2017 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552152)
Scotland actually has a government that looks after the Scottish people. We get free prescription medicines for all, free bus journeys for all over 60s and now cheaper energy than the big six energy companies charge.

I wonder who's paying for all that "free" stuff? The Scots, through taxes? Or are they still getting a lot of money from North Sea oil? And if so, how long do you suppose the "free" will last after the oil runs out?

RedDevil 10-10-2017 11:32 PM

Taxes obviously; Scottish tax levels are on a par with the majority of developed countries.

Poke, poke :D

JockoT 10-11-2017 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 552167)
I wonder who's paying for all that "free" stuff? The Scots, through taxes? Or are they still getting a lot of money from North Sea oil? And if so, how long do you suppose the "free" will last after the oil runs out?

Scotland gets sod all from North Sea Oil. All the revenue goes to the UK government. That was one of the driving factors behind the push for Scottish Independence. Another large oil field (by North Sea Standards) just announced this week. Discovered by Statoil.
Scotland can afford to give the free stuff through judicious management of the taxes paid by Scots (exactly the same rate as for other UK tax payers at the moment, though they are looking at possible changes to the levels at which the various rates change). Our NHS is also better funded than England and Wales.

redpoint5 10-11-2017 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552175)
Scotland gets sod all from North Sea Oil. All the revenue goes to the UK government.

Well now I don't know what to believe. Wiki says "GDP per capita $43,410 (including revenues from North Sea oil and gas)"

I'll point out that USA GDP per capita is $58,000. When you get to keep most of the money you earn, you tend to be more motivated to work. If most of my money went to pay for "free" medical care for obese Uhmericans, I probably wouldn't bother showing up for work.

JockoT 10-11-2017 11:52 AM

There will be some income from North Sea Oil and Gas as workers get paid and their pay gets taxed. The oil companies get the revenue from the sale of the oil, and pay the UK government for the licences and tax. Scotland gets revenue from rates gathered from facilities on Scottish soil, just as any business pays. Even Amazon has to pay rates on their warehouses!

JockoT 10-11-2017 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 552195)
If most of my money went to pay for "free" medical care for obese Uhmericans, I probably wouldn't bother showing up for work.

On earnings of £25.000/$33,000 we pay 11% tax, more or less the same as you would pay on that amount in the US.
Wikis figures for GDP is about 30% higher than the official government figures.

jamesqf 10-11-2017 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552175)
Scotland can afford to give the free stuff through judicious management of the taxes paid by Scots...

So it's not actually free, is it? At best, someone else has to pay for what you're getting.

JockoT 10-11-2017 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 552201)
So it's not actually free, is it? At best, someone else has to pay for what you're getting.

Everyone gets free prescriptions, the elderly get free bus travel (I paid taxes for 42 years before I qualified), the youngsters get free university education, children get free school meals in years 1 through 3. We all pay in while we are working and the money is divided out where it makes the biggest difference. Nothing wrong with that.

What do you get from your taxes?

freebeard 10-11-2017 02:13 PM

The USofA had a half-purebred Scot for President for two terms, yet none of that benefit accrued to us. Maybe it's something in the water over there?

RedDevil 10-11-2017 02:19 PM

You can complain about taxes.
You can complain about government.
But in the end all government activities are paid for by taxes. You get what you paid for!

Gasoline Fumes 10-11-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552206)
What do you get from your taxes?

Mostly weapons of mass destruction.

redpoint5 10-11-2017 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552206)
...the elderly get free bus travel.

What do you get from your taxes?

I'm against agism, sexism, anythingism when it comes to government interference. If a rule/benefit applies, it needs to apply to everyone.

I don't know what I get from my taxes, but I do know I get the DMV threatening to take my license away for paying the registration tax, but not driving the vehicle. :rolleyes:

I suppose I get military representation in the far corners of the world, not that I wish my money to be spent in that way. The upside is I also get GPS with my taxes. You're welcome rest of the world.

Gasoline Fumes 10-11-2017 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 552216)
I'm against agism, sexism, anythingism when it comes to government interference. If a rule/benefit applies, it needs to apply to everyone.

But encouraging old people to stop driving does benefit everyone. :D

freebeard 10-11-2017 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDevil
You can complain about taxes.
You can complain about government.
But in the end all government activities are paid for by taxes. You get what you paid for!

Maybe where you are. Here the country runs on duties and tariffs, and the taxes are funneled straight to the Federal Reserve to service that debt.

I ride the local bus for free, but that's a service of the county/city.

OTOH I think transit should be free at point of use for everyone. Little else will get people out of their cars. Employees get the low rate covered by their employer, un/self-employed get an exorbitant high rate.

Frank Lee 10-11-2017 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552206)

What do you get from your taxes?

I think maybe my lifetime's contribution in taxes may have bought a fin or two on a missile.:rolleyes:

jamesqf 10-12-2017 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552206)
What do you get from your taxes?

Well. I got a good space program, lots of National Parks & Forests to go play in, a country where I can keep a lot of my own earnings and spend them on things I actually want, instead of what some bureaucrats think would be good for me - or most likely, for some other people whose votes will keep them in their cushy jobs...

JockoT 10-12-2017 04:06 PM

We have a space programme (of sorts), lots of National Parks and forests, and pay more or less the same taxes as you do. I too can spend my earnings on whatever I want (except guns), so I feel pretty good about where I live too.

freebeard 10-12-2017 04:25 PM

Yugoslavia had a space program, look what it got them:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+space+program

What is your's like?

JockoT 10-12-2017 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 552298)
What is your's like?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_space_programme

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 10-12-2017 05:23 PM

All that "welfare state" BS is unsustainable, as it sometimes starts to run out of other people's money to pay for the handouts that benefit a few lazy arses.

freebeard 10-12-2017 09:35 PM

Politics follows culture. If Universal Basic Income doesn't follow robots taking all the jobs, then it will be something no-one has thought of yet. Probably block-chain based.

The solution won't be from government; it will be from the Open Software Foundation and the Maker movement and people like Eben Moglen and Lawrence Lessig. It will unleash a wave of creativity that would make Bucky Fuller proud. Remember what he said about the G.I Bill.

oil pan 4 10-12-2017 11:18 PM

UK space program.

https://youtu.be/pJdrlWR-yFM

me and my metro 10-13-2017 12:17 AM

What’s going to happen to consumer owned Scottish Power? They were good to work for 10 years ago. They owned my employer for a few years.

JockoT 10-13-2017 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me and my metro (Post 552328)
What’s going to happen to consumer owned Scottish Power? They were good to work for 10 years ago. They owned my employer for a few years.

Scottish Power, Spanish owned and funded by investment banks, will have to compete. Mind you, the British populous are happy to pay exorbitant energy bills, being reluctant to change when there are cheaper tariffs available, even from their own supplier!

freebeard 10-13-2017 01:01 PM

oil pan 4 — The brass cupboard hinges on the elevrons was a nice touch.

JockoT 10-13-2017 01:28 PM

Scotland's space programme!
Glasgow scientists launch teacake into space - BBC News

Fat Charlie 10-13-2017 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 552327)

No, they had a successful Lunar program back in the 1980s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb0ooQKbflM

bestia 10-16-2017 03:15 AM

The idea of an energy company was in last years manifesto and it still appears to be very much just the whim of an idea with little detail, no set up costs or details of the services, infrastructure needed, staffing estimates, etc. etc. If its taking a further 4 years to be implemented then I think its more like a dangling carrot to hold on to votes at future elections.

JockoT 10-16-2017 03:29 AM

Isn't that the way with all government promises, irrespective of which government?

Fat Charlie 10-16-2017 09:00 AM

It's as simple as asking what their real focus is. As Governor William J. Lepetomaine so eloquently put it...

Quote:

We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com