Engine braking and stop lights
 

With all of the tailgaters here I've been weary of engine braking, since it makes the car slow down but doesn't inform the drivers behind me about that. Sometimes I delicately push the brake pedal while engine braking to make sure they notice. I'm thinking about a button on the steering wheel, allowing me to manually turn on my red stop lights when I'd like the drivers behind me to know I'm slowing down.
Would this be a good idea? Could it be illegal? Has anyone had this idea/tried it?

Thanks,
Adam

If they can't tell you're going slower than them, it's their own fault. I'm sure the police would want you to either touch the brakes as you have been doing, or not worry about it. I engine brake all the time, and we have very impatient people here too. It doesn't bother me because I am either going the speed limit, or they can go around.

Since I can't kick the clutch off on my bike, I have to engine brake down to 15mph before I can start coasting.

I just shut the kill switch off, open the throttle wide, (I removed the snorkel tube from my airbox), and it sounds like a small diesel hitting the jake-brake. It also decelerates rather rapidly, so I see a lot of cars dipping their front ends behind me.

Sure, one of these days some inattentive non-driver is going to slam into my Ass, but it'll be their fault anyway for tailgating. :)

I can't speak for Polish law, of course, but I can't imagine it would be illegal.

And anything that catches the attention of the blind/deaf/dumb drivers out there is usually a good thing. Best add a taillight flasher and alarm, as well. :D

I don't think that it could be illegal, they have these things, which are of course different but still... http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1245640964

Yeah, I'm sure those things are illegal as well.

I don't think it's illegal to modify your brake light setup so you can manually activate them, the illegal part would be using them irresponsibly. Then again, I've gotten a fix-it for having manual reverse lights.

Either way, it's nice that you want to make yourself more obvious to other drivers, but then there's always the quote:
"Make it more idiot proof, I'll make more idiots."

No matter how obvious you make yourself, someone inevitably could be not paying attention, so you might be better off focusing your modding elsewhere.

I don't think your brakelights shining makes much of a difference anyway... I don't pay attention to brake lights, I use depth perception to gauge distance vs. speed. (There are lots of people around with at least one bad brake light, or the sun is in the wrong place, etc.) It works for me.

Ah, but you don't sleep behind the wheel.
I know that if someone rams my rear it's their fault, but I'll be the one without a bumper in the back, and maybe with a hurt neck. Most drivers look for differences in relative velocity between them and the cars in front, assuming the next car's speed is not changing. They probably aren't staring at the next car, analyzing speed differentials, but just glancing every few seconds to see how far it is and going back to text messaging. Sudden red lights will get their attention.
Of course, the stop lights would still be rigged to the brakes.
Now, I have to figure out how complicated it will be to tap into the brakelight circuit. Knowing Peugeot engineers, every time I press the brakes, the signal probably goes through the computer and wirelessly links to Peugeot HQ asking if it should turn on the "Go-to-authorised-service-station-and-pay-lots-of-$$$" lamp in the cockpit.

Hi,

If you are still getting some braking effect from the engine, then using the brakes lightly doesn't take away from the FE -- and you get the brakes lights to come on and warn the drivers behind you.

Yeah, you should be able to activate the brake lights with just a slight pressure on the pedal.

I don't think I've seen a VW built in the last 12 years older than 6 months that has had all its lights working, many without any taillights at all (though they do light up very well when they happen to catch fire on the side of the road) and I always wonder how long it will be before they get rear-ended, but have yet to see a rear-ended car with intact, non-functioning brake lights. Could be that they get rear ended and fixed or junked, but I'm not sure if the lights really make a huge difference. I think most people don't look more than 10 feet ahead of their car and use the relative size of the gap between them and the next car to adjust their speeds. NHTSA studies done on the CHMSL after introduction in the '80's showed a marked improvement in incidents of rear-end collisions involving cars so equipped, but when the study was repeated about five years after (I forget the exact amount of time), they found the incidents rear-end collisions had reverted to pre-CHMSL days due to driver familiarity.

But I wonder how many people even look through the windshield at all anymore. I was rear ended at an on-ramp while under full acceleration in the 2.3 Mazda3 by an Audi 2.7T that was puling out behind me. The Mazda's no dragster, but it's not slow, the Audi is surely faster, but what the hell was the woman looking at to hit me? All she could say was, like a stupid child, "I don't know." $3000 in damage and whiplash. They might as well just hand out licenses in vending machines.

I would just use the pedal very lightly, enough to turn on the lights. You may be able to tie an LED into the circuit to help you know when they actually come on, then you can get used to where they come on, and don't have to push any farther than that.

Unless you're revving up to 6k to drop it into first gear, your engine braking shouldn't be abrupt enough to matter. Let them get squirely behind you - it is their own damn fault. If you live in a particularly retarded area, then yeah, a push-button would be nice. (I'm just thinking that would be great on my race car... push it 1/2 second before i hit the brakes so the guy behind me brakes too soon :))

My other reason for not liking this push button idea... you only have 100% attention to pay... and if you're giving 15% of your attention to the rear view mirror, 30% of your attention to keeping the car in a straight line, 25% of your attention to keeping your car in the proper RPM range, downshifting, etc... 25% of your attention to traffic around you, and 5% of your attention to making sure you are going to be slowed down and stopped in time, while giving yourself enough reaction time to maneuver if necessary, then you try to spend another 10% of your attention to make sure you hit that button every time you notice that someone is behind you while you're slowing down, so that they can more easily tell that you're slowing down, and don't hit you, well, you're now using 105% of your attention, and you're not the US government.. you don't work on credit.

Maybe just a bumper sticker?

Here's an idea...

A 1-axis accelerometer with analog output tied to a comparitor with potentiometer adjustment connected to a relay in parallel with the brake light circuit.

In normal human-speak, a circuit that turns on your brake lights at a particular level of deceleration, regardless of that deceleration being caused by your brakes or your engine or a wall.

I have also considered that this circuit could be connected in such a way to rapidly blink your brake lights in the event of a hard deceleration. I think a few new cars are doing this with their centre brake light (maybe all of the brake lights, but definately the centre one)

I remember back in driver's ed when we talked about manual transmissions, downshifting to slow down came up. The teacher and book suggested tapping the brakes for 1-3 seconds at the beginning of your slowdown to alert a driver behind you of the change, but then just go without the brakes.

This is actually on some European cars, only with the caution lights. I've also seen people turn on their caution lights manually to simulate this.

Christ: I understand your concerns about the extra attention. There are more important things to do while driving, and when those things come up then I'll probably pay attention to them and forget about the manual switch. The brake lights will come on anyway if I really have to brake. If I just forget to push the button while engine braking then it's the same as now. Button pushing will happen only when my processor isn't overloaded and can handle one more thing to do. I do admit, though, that there is a larger load on my processor each time I have to slow down and make the decision: brake pedal or engine brake? If engine, then which gear? Etc.

EDIT: This is my 307 post, just like my Peugeot, a 307 model :)

caveat, flashing red lights *might*, remotely, be interpreted as impersonating an authority vehicle. My LED tail lights "strobe" when starting the car at a stop and I've had a few strange looks from the authorities.

Sounds a lot like a Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, it uses some nice accelerometer technology. Don't know how much an accelerometer costs which may be cheaper. Only thing is you would have to leave it on all the time which might drain your battery if you connect it to constant 12v to use with EOC. Or maybe connect it to a timer that will leave it on longer than your longest EOC then shut off. If you don't EOC, then connect it switched with ignition and call it good.

There's nothing wrong with being extra careful.

For one, yeah it would be their fault if someone hit you, but who wants to live the rest of their life with whiplash?! ...in pain, without range of motion. F@#$ that.

Two there are enough people driving like pricks already. :D Of course it your choice. I'm a firm believer in highway etiquette because I think if more people would practice it we'd all be a lot better off.

I lightly press the brake pedal, I call them fake brakes, if anyone is behind me. I also FAS a lot to lights and do the same.

I do not use the fake brakes on exits and some right turns if I have a tailgater. I love these guys on corners. With my tires to 44# (max sidewall) the Yaris corners great and I can take a corner a bit faster than they expect. I already know just how slow I need to be going and have anticipated it way before the corner by coasting. They must think because I have been going slower on the road that they can just follow me around the corner… Shazam! I make the corner and they nosedive or panic and hit the shoulder. Folks that are back a respectable distance can see the corner and set their speed accordingly, not to mine. It’s not much but gives me a smile now and again.

I kinda do that alot too... I take corners unreasonably fast, since I've spent so much time on tracks and road courses, it doesn't bother me when the vehicle leans extreme... others tend to want to counter the motion, though, which sends them in the wrong direction.

Honestly, if someone wrecked behind me because of their attempts at mimicry, I'd not feel bad at all.

I took a corner fairly fast once, and my girlfriend's sister, who was following me, ended up driving into a ditch. It was within the first few months of her having her license, and I think it kinda scared her of driving, so I tend to be a little more considerate of drivers behind me.

I'm considerate of people who aren't following my ass like there's a candy bar taped to it, and people whom I know are supposed to be following me.

People who tailgate, I'll do everything I can to scare them off my ass, within safety constraints for myself and those in my charge.

If they wreck because of it, that's not my problem. THey should have been paying more attention. It's hard enough sometimes to keep myself and my charges safe while driving - I don't need to burden myself with a tailgater's life as well.

I tend to take forever to turn if a guy is tailgating me.

What if it's a girl? :P

If 'm not driving through twisties, I usually just go 10 MPH slower than the speed limit. If they don't back off, or in worse cases, they get closer, I just slow down more.

The margin of safety increases with each MPH I decrease, since reaction time is a component of distance between objects and overall speed. At least when I'm going 30 in a 55, the tailgater will have enough time to respond when I finally do hit my brakes.

(It's not very often I actually use them for anything other than a signal. They're over a year old, I just had Cara inspected, and the mechanic confirmed that they're about 80% new.)

Darn, you guys should see how people drive here, in Cyprus...the other day, a traffic police car here (they have Mazda 3 V6) was like freakin' centimeters away from me on the highway and not like they were on a highway pursuit after me in my 45 bhp car :p, in fact they were probably off-duty, after probably 1-2 km's stuck to my ass they blasted past me...

I've lived in the US (FL) for about a year and the driving there, the drivers' behavior on the road is soooo far from what I've experienced here...Accidents almost everyday on my shortish 15km commute each way, kids (i mean <16) riding on one wheel, etc.

But you know what ? after founding this site and striving for more and more MPG through my congested drive I have actually realized I also increased my safety and probably that of others. Nowadays I never drive too close to anybody in front of me, I do make sure to tap the brake pedal for those behind me to know I'm coasting :D:turtle: and in general I try not to let myself "pushed" by what the others do in traffic...and believe me, most of the time I feel like the sheep in the huge pack of wolves with people racing from stop-light to stop-light, changing lanes at all times almost never using their indicators, etc.

I'm actually curios if anybody here has been to Cyprus or maybe Lebanon (I've heard driving habits there are even worse :eek:). I could only find 1 post from somebody else here in CY using the search function Link.

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy off-topic

Speed Limits - Information, Studies, Laws, Legislation

I know what you're saying about reaction times vs. speeds/distance, but if you make your car a road hazard then your intent defeats it's purpose.

The context of that post was involving someone following too closely. The micro event (not macro, micro) suggests personal safety with slowing down, to increase the chances of the person who is following too closely having the time available to properly react to a given situation. Your quotes have nothing to do with that, so I'll assume they weren't in argument of my post.

With my VX slowing down is an art. In 5th gear there is not much difference between coasting in neutral and DFCO in 5th gear. Down to about 25 MPH in 5th before DFCO cuts out, then down shift to maintain 0 fuel consumption without killing lean burn for 30 seconds by turning the engine off.

Around here tailgaters are the norm. I just use P&G to persuade them to follow someone else too closely especially if I see them using a cell phone.

I do usually leave them in the corners. There is one turn on my daily route that is posted as a max 35 MPH turn. 35 years ago I would go through that turn at 70 in a 59 Corvette.
Now I coast through it starting at 45 MPH, and usually it will put a couple hundred feet between me an a tailgater.

I slow down for several tenths of a mile to avoid red lights. Most tailgaters are to stupid to realize they are just wasting fuel passing me to get to the red light before me. Some of my timed red lights are several miles apart and invariably there are several cars that passed me in that stretch waiting for the light to change as I approach.

Occasionally I get a real jerk tailgater, usually female in a SUV. When their actions get really obnoxious I will coast down to significantly below the speed limit, and pulse around curves at speeds they can not maintain, anything to establish some separation, especially when they are on a cell phone, which I can easily see in my rear view mirror, because they are so close. I have had a few pass me on a double yellow line and make gestures, but I could care less since they are already driving recklessly and endangering my life and health.

I have the means to handle any escalation, but would much prefer they just get away from me and endanger someone else.

In the last two decades the only accidents I have been involved in are me being hit in the rear end by a moron, so that is where I focus a significant amount of my attention.

regards
Mech

By purposely slowing down even further below the speed limit you create a dangerous situation because you become a road hazard. :thumbup: Not to mention you become distracted while toying with the other driver.

You were implying that because you drive slower, you instantly create a safer situation.

bullcrap http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/gr...smiley-003.gif you should not be on the road if you cannot avoid hitting slower objects. There will always be slower objects. That link was tripe. You go faster, you put everyone at risk, a slower moving herd is always safer.

You should not be on the road if you're going to instantly make your self a road hazard to teach someone a lesson. No one here owns the road, so please don't act like it. Otherwise you give yourselves the hugely negative connotations seen here:
How To Get 99.7 Mpg From A Geo Metro

Some members here end up with the exact same attitude of the car owners that they criticize. It becomes ironic.

I only wanted to add to this that, by speeding, you are creating lots of slower objects:p Thus, everything is relative.

There is one exception to the slow herd is safer rule, and that is when you have predators.

Not even necessarily talking about speeding. If you're driving more than 10mph below the limit, there's a problem here. It's not safer by any means to slow down everyone else because you feel it creates a safer situation. All you're doing is instigating road rage and causing everyone else behind the first driver trouble too, who had nothing to do with the initial situation. Then, human emotion kicks in for everyone, and all aspirations for safety goto shreds.

A slow herd is safe, given if there was a herd. One driver slowing down traffic is not a herd by any means.

Adjust your driving techniques to traffic, period. It's silly to expect everyone to adjust themselves to your car when you refuse to adjust yourself for the rest of everyone else.

Speeding is safer than driving slower? Bull****.

Drive 80 on the highway, when most people are going 70, tell me how stressed your are after the run. Drive 60 on the highway, when most people are going 70, tell me how stressed your are after the run.

Ever since I started hypermiling, I feel better on the road, and I like driving more.

What speed I drive at doesn't effect my stress levels. I do 65-70 in the CST10 because of it's gearing limitations and ~70 in the CRX with the flow of traffic. I could come home at night doing 90 for all I care, I'm not stressed. What causes stress is drivers who feel they own the road and think it's their job to control everyone's speeds on roads where passing is not an option. This goes for tail gaters and those who are going well below the speed limit.

You're entirely missing the point. What you do outside of traffic doesn't mean anything, at speeds with-in reason of the limit.

Causing a traffic jam is not safe, period. Making your car a ROAD HAZZARD, NO MATTER IN WHAT WAY, IS NOT SAFE. A pack of cars "speeding" along is safer than a pack of cars sitting behind a driver who is being unreasonably slow.

"Research conducted by the Florida Department of Transportation showed that the percentage of accidents actually caused by speeding is very low, 2.2 percent."

Like I said before, and I'll say again, adjust your driving techniques to the flow of traffic. Either that, or pull aside when safe and at the very least be courteous.

Engine braking is one thing, but blocking traffic is blatant stupidity and incites more road rage.

Driving too slow is against the law as well. Notice, my posts are about the driver who thinks that slowing down well below the speed limit is a grand idea. The driver who is blocking traffic because he is "being safe" by continuously dropping his speed. We're talking about more than 15-20% below the limit, in my opinion.

Also, to counter your question, say you're doing 10 under in a 45. A driver coming up behind you is doing 45. Are you now so inclined to "stick to your guns", or be courteous to the other law abiding driver who happens to just want to go the speed limit? Take into account the inaccuracy of speedometers and how that effects a person's speed compared to you.

A judge has nothing to do with this, I could tell him doing 30 over is a sweet idea, in writing. Nothing he can do, talking is not breaking the law.

You, as a driver must do what is safe for everyone. This means, -gasp- compromising! If a person is breaking the speed limit, then you as a safe driver should do what is necessary to alleviate the problem. If this means yielding to the other driver so they can get on their merry way, so be it. It does not, however, mean causing further road rage. When you drive your car in a way to "get your way", you are not better than the other person.

I haven't mentioned freeway driving, there's enough room for everyone to get along. My point has been on roads where there are not extra lanes to pass, say one on each side of the median.

Obviously 45mph for your case is with-in the law, but hardly with-in reason with a 20mph speed difference. I'll let logic take over at that point, it's obvious on a freeway you'll find cars going over 65mph at which point the 45mph minimum becomes can become even more dangerous, depending on traffic. If traffic is tight at rush hour, but generally moving along at 65mph, I'll leave it to you to say if doing 45mph is a grand and safe idea when prevailing traffic is safely moving along 20mph faster.

If you're scootin' along at 3am in the far-right lane, 45mph becomes much more reasonable with next to no traffic to deal with. Though, I'd never do that low on a TX freeway.

You can argue semantics and situational examples all day. Fighting road rage with road rage and further exacerbating the situation is not safe driving, as per some posters' opinions.

I'll go out and say "herd speeding", is safer than "herd trying to avoid one slow cow in a skinny stockade". Laws are one thing, but logic and real life tend to win-out. You shouldn't have to, by all means, speed your car up to an unreasonable speed to appease another driver, but vica-versa if you're blocking them on a road where passing is not an option. The most you can do is "be the better man", and do what's best to alleviate the problem. It does mean compromising.

Being a dick and slowing down more maybe fun, but certainly isn't safe, as par some opinions here..

Coming back to the original question about the lights, how about a foot switch ? Old Minis used to have the main beam / dipped headlights controlled by a foot switch instead of a stalk switch and that worked reasonably well. If positioned correctly you could press it instead of the brake pedal but you would need to make sure your foot didn't rest on it. Also it may be easier to add to the brake light circuit if it is close to the existing switch on the pedal assembly instead of reprogramming something.