Engine Kill Switch - Use with Caution!!
 

On Friday the Wife and I drove south to go crosscountry skiing. The drive was terrible - dark, temperature around freezing, very strong wind and snow. We finally made it to the small village where we were to sleep. The owner of the house told me to turn the car around and where to park it, but I got stuck in the deep snow in his yard. The wheels started slipping, but I was able to get out of the snow and when I parked I turned the engine off with the kill switch (the key was still in the 'On' position) so that I wouldn't have to turn the key again when I write down the trip's data in my log. But first I got out to talk to the owner. When I came back to the car I couldn't open the trunk, which was weird because it always unlocks simultaneously with the doors. So I tried the rear door - locked. Front door - locked. D*mn!!

Why did the car lock the doors? After all, I've left the car many times with the key in the ignition, so what happened? I think that the problem was with the wheels slipping when I got stuck in the snow. When the wheels slipped and started spinning past a certain speed the computer thought that the car was moving and locked the doors and started beeping about my seatbelt not being fastened. All of the doors always unlock when one is opened from the inside, and they all lock when either the car starts moving past a certain speed, or the 'Lock' button on the dashboard is pressed, or the driver's door is locked from the outside with the key. Since I couldn't have pressed the dashboard button after shutting the door, nor could I have locked the door from the outside (the key was in the ignition), then it must have been the computer thinking the car was still in motion, so it locked the doors after I got out, thinking that the car can't be empty since the key in the ignition was in the 'On' position. Why didn't this happen before when I would also get out of the car after using the kill switch? My guess is that the slipping wheels made the computer go crazy, and so it may have thought one of the sensors is malfunctioning and it is safest to assume that the vehicle is still rolling, so the doors should be locked.

So here we are at 10pm, up to our ankles in snow, in strong and freezing wind, with only a light jacket on, standing next to the locked car with its key in the ignition. Everything else is also inside: our money, documents, cell phones, food, clothes, skis, computer. The spare key was at home - 5 hours away.

The owner was very concerned, he told us to go into the house, have some warm tea, use his phone to call home. I called my mechanic brother-in-law and he proposed to try to open the hood, then to disconnect and reconnect the battery, which should reset everything and unlock the doors. With help from the house's owner and his screwdriver I got the hood open, but dis- and reconnecting the battery changed nothing:( Since it was very late the owner told us to go to sleep and we'll try again in the morning. He brought us everything we needed, in the morning he brought bread and eggs, let me call my bro-in-law again and use his internet to look for ideas on how to open the car. I checked how much professional car openers charge (since we didn't know if any of the neighbors' teenaged kids had that kind of knowledge and/or practice;)) and decided that the 100-150PLN is much more than replacing one of the smaller windows (used for as low as 35PLN).

Finally, we decided that we'll first try to pry the top of the door open and stick a wire in to pull on the door handle from the inside. We even got it hooked and pulled a few times, but it wouldn't open the door. It turned out that the slightly pried open door was pushing too hard on the latch for it to move. Next we tried to press the lock button on the dash, but it is plastic and the long wire's tip would easily slip off of it. Then we tried to press the button which opens the window, but pressing it didn't work because... the car's computer went into economy mode (power cut to all accessories). So by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery over and over again we were able to keep the button powered just long enough to open the window:)

Thankfully, I didn't have to break (and then replace) any windows, all I have is a dent a few scratches from the prying - I'll have to get that painted before rust settles in.

I'm greatful that this happened where we were supposed to stay for the weekend, and not at a gas station or empty parking lot in the boonies. In the latter case I wouldn't have waited too long before hitting one of the windows.

The moral of this story is that using an engine kill switch doesn't shut all of the car's functions off (good for EOC), and some of those functions you may not want to be on, like power locks when you get out. Especially if for some reason the computer isn't of the best mental health.

The deeper moral of this story is that having too many electronic gizmos sucks big time.http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-pi...own-smiley.gif

On my car the doors will lock after a certain period of inactivity - basic anti-theft feature - so I'm very wary of leaving the keys in the car ;)
When travelling a considerable distance with a passenger, I always give my spare key to the passenger.

Mine doesn't close by itself when turned off, I can leave it unlocked all day on the driveway. It's probably an option that can be (de)activated in the software.

That's a good idea with the spare key, but in this case wouldn't have worked - both of us left everything inside when we got out because we were never more than 2 meters from the car, plus it was in gear and the engine was off (though the computer thought otherwise...). I've pledged to find a place on my body to pierce and hang the spare key on, but I'm not sure where so that it doesn't interfere with sports and other activities. Just joking:) But maybe having the spare on a string on someone's neck would be a good idea during the trip.

All of my vehicles have a spare key zip tied to the frame.
I used it one when a helper went to the van and left the keys inside.
My wifes, hers gets used every few months.......

Just one more reason why I like me simple caveman cars with no power anything. I DO have the strength to push a lock button, crank a window, and steer!

just get a hide-a-key, they use magnets and will attach to the frame. i have a spare for my jeep and for my apartment (since the building door locks when it closes).

Amazon.com: Magnetic Heavy Duty Hide-A-Key Holder: Patio, Lawn & Garden

But of course the first thing a car thief would look for is the hide-a-key :-)

I agree about the automatic door locks. I don't even like/use the "feature" where you can lock the doors from outside without the key. If I always lock the door with the key, then at least I know I didn't lock it inside.

All my geos have a spare key in the gas door. feel free to borrow one if you can figure out how to drive it with the kill switch connected t the clutch pedal switch. Odd this is the first time you had this happen it happens to me every time i get out of the car. Next time i have the door panels off I'm going to unhook the locking solenoids.

Gots to have that spare key.

the way i see it: if a car thief wants in, he's getting in, and stealing your stuff, if you have a kill switch he likely won't figure out how to get it started and will only steal your stuff, at least if you give him a key you won't have to replace the window as well as the rest of your stuff. and for those of us that have newer cars with chipped keys, don't get a key with a chip, therefore you can only use it to access the car and not start it, or just get a new ignition switch that has a different key like i had on my first car.

I don't think were talking about a security kill switch, at least I'm not. a switch to let you coast with the engine off. It just happens mine is hooked to my clutch pedal starter switch and it takes some practice to use it. just stepping on the pedal turns off the cam signal and I would think no one would ever figure it out. some times it gets me.

i had a security kill switch on my honda, actually it was 3 switches total. 1 to interrupt the starter, 1 to interrupt the ignition, and a third to kill the fuel pump. i also had a fuel cut-off valve and a relief valve that would recirc the fuel if the pump was running when the valve was shut. all of it was hidden so there was virtually no way to steal my car, short of towing it. you could have a kill switch for EOC that could be used for security as well, depending on how you wired it and where you placed it.

Piwoslaw -

What a bummer. When I worked at night at college I was 15+ miles from home. I was paranoid that I'd lock myself out of my car, so I used a long key chain (dog collar/leash chain) for *years* to keep the ignition key attached to me at all times. I still use the chain for my keys, but now I have two keys. One goes in the ignition and the other key stays attached to me at all times, and the remote-door-lock is on *another* separate attachment that I use for my pocket-watch. I have locked myself out but I've always had the spare or the remote at hand.

I am also happy to say that my cave-man 1999 S-Series won't auto-lock. Thank goodness for that!

CarloSW2

If you unlock a VW it will lock again after a minute of no activity. If you unlock it and pop a door or bootlid it will stay unlocked pretty much forever. I found this out after A-Jnr emptied the boot of his birthday present a few weeks early last year.

Still at least it wasn't Mr Tea-Leaf.

True... and it's even more frustrating when the VW no longer detects when the driver's door has opened... like on mine... apparently the little microswitch within the door has failed. So I'll unlock (with the remote), get in the car, put on seatbelt etc, put key in ignition, <car autolocks>, turn the key, car doesn't start but the alarm does. Then I panic and it takes me another (what seems like) 5 minutes to take the key out, press the correct button (the key and remote are '1 unit'), and get calmed down enough to try again.

I know I need to take the door apart to fix this, but haven't had the time to tackle that yet.

While there are a few things about newer cars that I really like, there are definitely more things that I could do without (including "automatic climate control"!!).

I have air con which in the Fab is considered a weak spot. I suspect its probably going to fail this summer which not a biggie in Scotland - you need wellies before coolling. Less is more though, its some weight I can remove perhaps...

Most cars have a "chip" in the key that is required by the ECU to start the car. However, the chip isn't used when unlocking the door. Thus, if you can find a physically similar key base you can cut a copy of the key that will open the door in an emergency but not allow a searching thief to drive off with the car.

Personally, I'm just paranoid about my keys and always grab them as I leave, even if I'm just stopping to fill up gas. It's such a habit that I'll even grab the keys when I leave my wife in the car.

I take out the keys and lock the car every time I get out, even for fuel. Habit from my dad, ex-cop.

I have locked Mrs A in a few times. :D

I live where it is still possible for a vehicle to have never had the keys out of the ignition, and the house never locked! :eek:

+1

Mostly I just use the rule - make sure key is visible in hand when exiting the car. I'm not keen on leaving it in the car for whatever reason - but if I do, the window is down.

Nobody wants ther geo'esclade to be jacked ever. so i use the factory geo cant jack my ride anti theft system. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc people really live where you have to take the keys out of your car? Time to move.

I also have the latest car alarm tech going. Its the only system people dont ignore when it goes off. But they no its not there old ride. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22_JNKflY6I

^ That's hilarious. And honestly, it probably would be more effective. Nobody can really ignore that.

Thread jack.

nice alarm..... i live in a gated community and work has a monitered gated parking lot

My mechanic insists that a kill switch is a bad idea, as it's bad for the starter and flywheel.

I've worn out a few ignition switches through the years by turning off the ignition at stoplights. One of the scariest times though was when the starter went out, the car revved up high and wouldn't turn off. Fortunately I was at a gas station at the time and they disconnected the battery. The diagnosis was that the teeth were stripped from the flywheel.

So, I was excited to install a kill switch to save gas, but it looks like that won't be happening.

It's happened again. Twice!
The first rerun was two weeks after our first incident. We went to my Grandma, the Wife was supposed to drive home, but after driving out of the driveway decided she doesn't feel too good, so she turned the engine off with the kill switch and got out, and the car locked itself. Damn. But since we still remembered what happened two weeks ago, and we were in front of Grandma's house, then I went to get some tools, got a stick inside to press the window button and - nothing! The window was frozen shut. The other windows too.
Thankfully, Grandma lives an hour's train ride from home, so 2.5h later I was back with the spare key.

So next time went to Grandma's I had the spare key with me. We stopped at a gas station, I turned the engine off with the key and removed it (I didn't use the kill switch this time), I got out and filled up. When I wanted to open the door it was locked, but I had the key in my hand (and spare in my pocket), so no problem. The Wife had been inside the whole time and said that she didn't lock the door.

This is weird, because earlier that day at Grandma's the car was left on the driveway for hours and it didn't lock itself. In fact, until now it has never locked itself while the key was not in the ignition. The family keeps repeating that my use of the kill switch may have done something with the ECU, maybe making it go into some kind of panic mode. Could this be the case?

I've had this happen a couple times to me too. Thankfully the Mrs has always been somewhere close enough to get me a key. I now carry a extra key in my wallet just in case since that is always on my person and can't be left in the car.

I tried a few things today and found out the following: When I stop and open the driver's door, that door opens, but none of the doors unlock, so none of them can be opened from the outside, including the driver's door once it is closed. Previously, all doors would unlock and stay unlocked when one of them was opened from the inside. My guess is that the central lock settings were changed, maybe when I disconnected the battery while the doors were locked? I'll have to find out how to reprogram it. Hopefully it'll turn out that it has nothing to do with my kill switch.

Thanks. This thread just reminded me I need to order some auto jigglers and a lock snap gun. Takes to long trying to pick them. The pry the window method works, but you almost need 2 people to do it if you don't have professional equipment.
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