EOC - concerns
 

While doing some very low-speed (luckily) testing of EOC (engine-off-coast) in a parking lot, at one point during a turn, I was coasting, and had apparently turned the key to 'off' rather than 'accessory', and the steering wheel locked. I had enough time to slow down and unlock the steering wheel, but it was a scary adrenaline-filled second when the wheel wouldn't turn where I wanted it.

Anybody else ever run into this and/or is there a way to address it aside from modding the vehicle by putting in something like a fuel cutoff button to manually disable the engine without the key?

(first post, btw, cool site)
-Jesse

Hi Jesse -

First, welcome to the site.

Second, glad you tried this in a parking lot and not on the road! Seriously. I bet there was some adrenaline.

I made a kill switch for my car, though I also use the technique in other cars without one. I can't say that I've ever mistakenly turned to "OFF" and locked the steering, but like most driving tasks it'll probably take a lot of repetition before the correct way to do it becomes a habit.

Aside from the kill switch, I can't think of any other easy "fix" for the problem other than careful repetition.

And I wouldn't recommend using the technique if you're not 100% comfortable with it and understand the potential risks. (It sounds like you're aware ;))

Hello and welcome to the site Jesse.

I hate to say it, but your doing it wrong. :) The proper procedure for EOC has been talked about a few times. Here is a link:

http://forum.ecomodder.com/showthread.php?t=1388

I know I was doing it wrong (obviously) :) but I'm just saying that it was really easy to turn the key the extra click and get it wrong. Just a word of caution to those who might attempt it I suppose.

The first time I tried it I turned it to Lock and removed the key (!)... it was just my automatic 'turn it off' move. I was just rolling to a stop, but it's probably better to practice while you're sitting still a few times. You get used to it very quickly, and there's zero chance of screwing it up once you've done it a few times. A kill switch is still better, just because key assemblies are very expensive.

I took out the steering lock in my lumina. It was pretty simple, but I do think a kill switch would be easier to install.

Randy - removing the key: that's funny!

Somewhat related: on 3 occasions I've disconnected the main battery pack cable in the electric car by pressing the clutch pedal, which is rigged as the emergency shut off. Each time I did it was an "automatic" combo move: get in, seatbelt on, insert key and depress the clutch. Also each time I was also either tired or distracted.

Even standard driving is not safe if the driver is tired or distracted.

What I like best about ecomodders and hypermilers is that they just plain pay more attention!

Also as a side note, if you do put in a seperate kill switch, you're better off putting in something that kills your spark, instead of your fuel. Interrupting the tach wire going into your distributer is always a safe bet.. assuming you have a distributer, of course. If you do decide to go this route, I can give you the wire color and location of this wire if you provide me with your year, make, and model.

Welcome

my first EOC was rough. was on the road - granted there was no one aroung me but it was not in a parking lot - really stupid on my part.

To this day i am unsure what i did wrong, but i poped the clutch and the engine did not fire up. had to stop car then start with key.

I THINK it was miss-keyed and not "ON".
but after that ( and several lower speed checks in my development) the pattern becomes almost habit.

Steve

Even though I EOC pretty frequently in my commute, if i haven't had enough coffee I'll do stupid stuff like kill the engine while it's still in gear, or try to bump start with the engine on. :o

Why is this better? We're trying to save fuel, not dump fuel into a cyl that won't burn it. :confused:

Good call 'chain.

Reformed: Why pump fuel and not burn it? Wouldn't it be better to not pump fuel at all?

WRT Steering - wouldn't it be easier to modify the steering column so it doesn't "lock" when the key is inserted? The locking mechanism is a simple pin/solenoid that prevents the wheel from turning. It's a safety feature designed for manual transmission cars. It was designed to force the car to turn in a circle if it ever "rolled in a freefall" down a hill (to limit the damage, I'd guess).

EOC gone wrong:

Worst EOC experience was in a rental Chrysler 300 in Alberta. Coasting down a mountain pass, I decided to shut it down. (should have downshifted and let the fuel-cut do its job, but...)

Turns out, you have to have the car in Park to restart :eek: Triple-checked the Neutral gear position, engaged the brake, parking brake -- everything I could think of, until I saw a turnout at roadside.

Apparently there's different behavior among models of cars (and the markets where they're sold).

RH77

RH77
simular thing happened to me ( less the freeked out panic look as going down a mountainside) - but with a UHAUL Pickup i rented for a yardwork project.
As i has to refuel the truck ( F150 with a Duramax i believe) i wanted to squeeze the most MPG out of it.
after a check of coasting in N and shifting back to drive with rev match (no odd sounds or bumps or jerks)- I desided to see if i could also coast to the stop lights : Not to far of a coast mind you - maybe 100 yrds max, sit at the light OFF then restart and go.

Light turn green - turn the key ... Nothing happens...
i start thinking that there is something wrong with the truck - some rental disengagement lock or odd thing i missed.

then i look down and see i am not in park. DUH!!
and our PT Cruiser IS an AUTO and i SHOULD have seen this..
(somedays i live up to my Screen Name)

Steve

More concerns learned "the hard way":
In the focus, last night, doing the first EOC at night. Apparently, my headlights do not operate when the key is turned to "accessory". Couple of seconds of pitch-black highway driving in the middle of a relatively busy highway = terrified me and girlfriend (who wasn't aware that I was even doing that really). Also, apparently in the Ford Focus, if you turn from accessory back to "on" very quickly, apparently something bad happens with the RFID-authentication, and the car won't restart again... So I had to coast to a complete stop on the side of the highway, take the key out completely, put it back in and restart the car. The security light on the dash was blinking while I was coasting and trying to restart it, so that's all I can think of.

Be careful out there!

On a positive note, best tank of gas I've had yet.

Be careful with PS while EOCing
 

The worst situation I've had with EOCing is on long downhill curves like on ramps. My steering is pretty stiff while the engine is off, but I took people's advice on here and got used to that while there wasn't anybody else around, but what I wasn't prepared for was how soft it becomes so quickly after the engine comes back on! I coasted 80% of the way down the ramp with the engine off, the transmission in OD and the clutch in while holding the turn. As soon as I dropped the clutch I just about threw the whole truck into the shoulder because it was light as a feather all of a sudden. I need to just get new tires that take less turning force and then disable the power steering all together.

Randy, you raise a great point. When you turn off your engine, DON'T take the key out. It will LOCK your steering column and you'll lose power steering and power brakes.

If you're a teenager or younger 20 something, do this first:
Sit in your car with the engine running (in Park) and turn off the engine and turn the key forward one notch. That's how you EOC.

Don't ever remove the key. Simply turn it back toward one notch and then forward one notch.

It's an anti-theft feature to make a hot-wired car inoperable. it has nothing to do with manual cars or turning in a circle. I park my 5 spd with the wheel straight. If it ever started rolling, it would continue that way.

How many of you auto drivers engage your parking brakes while in Park? I don't know of anyone who did it besides me. The only thing keeping your car from rolling away is a little pin in the transmission that occasionally snaps if you're parked on a hill. The proper procedure for parking an auto is stopping with the foot brake, applying the hand brake, releasing the foot brake and putting the transmission in park. This will only put pressure on the park pin if the handbrake fails. I trust the handbrake far more than an auto's Park. If the handbrake fails on a manual, being in 1st gear should prevent the car from moving more than a few inches per minute.

To the OP: You only turn the key to Off to kill the engine. Once it's dead, turn the key back to On and you can coast without locking the wheel.

That is why they teach us to turn the wheels when we park, in drivers ed :) The direction depends on if there is a curb or not:
http://golocalnet.net/drive/hills.htm

It annoys my wife, but i always use the parking break - on the Nissan (5spd) and the Crusier (auto) regarrdless of where i park ( yes even in the garage). unsure where i picked this up from as both my parents NEVER use the parking break - but then again they always had manuals so the tranny keeps it from moving ( intheory)

i Purposly turn the wheels only on really steap hills - Maybe i do it all the time and do not think about it.

steve

Another reason for using the p-brake regularly is that they tend to seize up when not used. Which means you could be facing (A) a stuck brake that won't release if you ever do apply it, or (B) a brake that won't engage should you really need it (hydraulic brake failure - ie. "emergency" brake).

Same here. I use it to take pressure off of the transmission when parked. And the same with my folks too. I think old E-brakes often broke, so people were hesitant to use them.

I agree with Metro -- if they're not used, they tend to seize.

I use the e-brakes on rentals as well -- habit I suppose -- but if they have rear drums, that's supposed to self-adjust them. Or just drive in reverse and brake hard :o

RH77

One more point about park brakes
There are several auto manufacturers who have the rear brake adjustment throught the park brake cables.
early escorts and "K" cars come to mind first but i know i have worked on literally hundreds of cars with the rear beakes out of adjustment that needed to have the park set 4 or 5 times to bring them back into adjustment.
renault LE-CAR was one also.
hmmm maybe i go look and see how many cars use the P-brake for adjusting the rears?
next week when i get home.
S.