EOC Question - what did i do wrong?
 

Morning all -

Yesturday i played around with EOC on the way to work - mostly on downgrades where i could get a least 0.2 miles of EOC. I have seen some of the posts on the "technique" and i followed that pretty closely.

On the way in - i waited until temp guage was at normal level. shifted to neutral - clicked key back 1 click - engine died - clicked forward 1 click so everything but the engine was ON - at end of the Coast - cluch in - shift to 5th - cluch out - engine started up and drove on. worked GREAT - i estimated that in my 12 mile commute - i have 1 to 1.5 miles of EOC i can do on the way in.

So in the afternoon - I am psyched - this will be great. 5 or so EOC's on the way home went perfect... then came the 6th one....

4 lane road - no burm ( only curb to the right) low traffic ( for once in atlanta). a solid 1/2 mile of EOC.. shift to 5th - pop cluch- RPM's come up - i push the gas - NOTHING.. :confused: it was like the engine was spinning but the car was not on. Crap :eek: - shift to 3rd ( maybe i was in wrong gear i think) - Nothing. I had to come to complete stop in the freeking lane and start with the Key. WTF?? :confused: :eek: so rest of the way home i drive like normal.. last hill until our development i try again ( coast ends with the turn onto our street - so i know if it does it again i will be off the road. i very carefully make sure i was doing the same thing i had done all the OTHER times... but the SAME THING happens :confused: :mad: .. RPM's spinning - key in correct position - but it is as if the engine is still OFF.. so i stop - key start it - and drive on.

What the heck? I do not think it is technique ( as it worked the times i did it before) engine was plenty warm (not cold start) - when the RPM's were spinning - it was over 1000 - so should have been enough to start the engine..

Anyone have any thoughts? ( recall this is a 2000 Nissan Altima - 2.4L - 5 speed)

In the meantime - i am going to reserve EOC for areas where i can pull off if this happens again ( or until i figure out what is going on)

Thanks

Steve

When you do that and you add a little gas pedal to it, what happens?

Next time that happens try to turn the key back and then into position again and the release the clutch again. It sounds like either your not getting any fuel or not getting any spark...no fuel is the first thing that comes to mind though, but I don't know, unless you don't actually have the key in the right position, why you wouldn't be getting any fuel though.

Are you saying you rolled to a stop & then restarted, or you stopped the car on purpose in order to restart it? I ask just to make sure everyone knows you can key start while you're rolling, if need be.

Sounds to me like a keyswitch issue - like it wasn't completely back in the "run" position.

MetroMPG -
I my first reaction was try a lower gear - and i think i did try the key while rolling.. but i may have just stopped and turned it over.
LESSON - consider the contengency plans BEFORE trying something new.

I will try again this evening. there is a strech with a long downhill and a burm incase i have issues. I will make sure i click things again to be sure i have things correct.

I have not had any fuel or spark issues before ( no issue keystarting it in the years i have had it) so i am less inclined to think it is an issue there... but with only 2 failures our of probably 15 attemps - not enough data to really tell.

I will try again ( in teh areas where i have a pull off OUT incase i need it) and recheck the KEY position - the Gearing - and even the Key starting of it happens again.

Who knows - there could me some sort of interloc that i happened to hit. I think the 2 issues were the longer of the coasting streches i have.

Thanks for the feedback and help.

You might need to activate a clutch switch to get fuel on a start? Just speculating wildly here.

That might be something.

Do you remember - when you came to the stop & restarted with the key - if you had to switch the key "OFF" again to get it to restart? Your description doesn't mention it.

Anyway, it sounds like you're prepared to figure this out in a way that avoids putting yourself (or anyone else) at risk in the event you can't clutch start.

I'll be interested to see what you learn.

This is one of the reasons why I highly recommend trying things out in an abandoned parking lot first! Luckily there wasn't heavy traffic. You must know how your car reacts to different situations and be comfortable with using these techniques on public roads. So, I suggest you try it on some low traffic roads and figure out whats going on.

That's really strange. The revs are certainly there.

Somebody mentioned tapping the gas, that the clutch may interlock on the fuel delivery and/or the spark as well as the starter when you turn the key to ign. ON. And if it does, that sounds awfully belt-and-suspendersish to me. You could maybe disable that interlock switch. That will probably be the cheapest solution if that is the case.

Try this: keep the car in gear while coasting and turn the ignition OFF - the engine will continue to spin as always. Don't put in the clutch or shift to neutral. Let everything settle a bit and try turning the ignition back to ON.

I'm actually inclined, now after reading MetroMPG's post, that maybe there is some kind of cut off if you leave the engine in the ignition position for too long to conserve power or something. Next time that happens, try turning the key back and then to the ignition position and release the clutch to see if that works. It could be that when you have it in the ignition position, some extra electronics turn on or something and after X seconds, the computer kills those things (electronic spark distribution or fuel pump) to conserve the battery.

Another point...

Correct me if I"m wrong, but it sounds to me as though you're completely releasing the clutch in 5th to restart the engine. I don't do this because it seems much harder on the equipment than what I do:

- briefly and only partially engaging the clutch ("dipping it")
- then immediately pushing the pedal in again when the engine starts
- then select the proper gear, rev match, engage the clutch & carry on

Thanks guys.

Last night after work i keyed the car to ON and sat there for 60 seconds to see if there is indeed some kind of a timeout - Nope - fired right up. This AM waited 2 minutes - fired right up.

MetroMPG - yes i was releasing it in 5th and staying there. I will try what you have outlined. This AM i did try key-starting it ( just to prove that i could as a last resort) worked fine

Daox - absolutely agree with you - i did not note in my initial post that i had lest work early to aviod the high traffic time so i could "play" with it. I have skipped opprotunities where i felt traffic was a little to thick - afterall this is a rather large car and no power stearing is VERY noticable ( ok - not compared to some of the larger cars/trucks - but it actually suprised me)


When faces with this occurance again - my action plan shall be to
- key car whole way off
- restart with key and drive on.

Thank you for your help here - once again - this forum ROCKS!!!


Steve

Hey Doofus! (Sorry. :D You picked the name, though.)

Any more news on this? Have you been continuing to develop the technique?

Over the past week or so - i have not run into the event again.
I have successfully EOC'ed for a total of 1.5 miles to work and 1.7 from work ( so total of 3.2 miles out of 24 mile round trip.

I believe i was not keying the car into correct position - and thus the engine did not kick on.
( other wise known as User Error - or adjusting the Nut behind the wheel)

I have been doing the partial clutch engagement to start engine then clutch back in and then re-engaging the gear.

Thanks everyone for the assistance with this.. I look forward to saving even more fuel with this technique.

Steve