EOC using starter to restart?
 

I have now been EOCing for a bit now, but since I have an automatic, I have to key start the car. I have done this a little bit but then after one EOC the car wouldn't start. So it seems the battery "died". Ok, no problem, it was old to begin with and I already had a new battery which would fit. It wasn't a deep cycle because we didn't buy it for this car but it's CCA rating was quite a bit higher than my car requires. I figured this would mean that it would also have a higher battery capacity. I'm not sure if it actually does because after charging it yesterday, during my commute today the car almost didn't want to start. I slightly delayed some people behind me so after that I kept the engine on for a little bit. When I got home, I started charging the battery but the charger was only drawing about 5 amps to start with when I set it to 10 amp charging. In half an hour it was reduced to about 1~2 amps which I think means that the battery was only discharged a little bit. Does this mean that my starter is to blame for the inability to start after EOC?

Thank you
(and sorry for wall o text)

More detail. Which car? Will the starter try to start the car, etc. What did you do to get it to restart? First things I would check are all battery connections (including grounds) and the neutral safety switch. Try starting it in neutral when stationary to help rule out safety switch.

One other thought, if the place were you got the battery has free testing do it, this will rule out any charging or battery issues. More likely the problem is something else.

Is the"new" battery any good? was the old battery really wore out?

If your car almost didn't want to start then how did you get it to start?

If you are using your starter a lot and you need to put a battery charger on your battery at least once a week over night to make sure it's getting fully charged at some point, you should also check the cable going to your starter for damage along with the ground straps.

I just fixed a similar problem with my car yesterday. It turned out that the cable that goes directly from the battery to the B+ terminal on the starter solenoid, was loose.

On my SW2. The battery was purchased from Sam's Club.
When it didn't want to start it made a "buzzing" sound. I then waited a few seconds and kept the key turned until it started about 1.5~2 secs when it did start. After that, I didn't EOC for a while. I coasted in gear because my neutral idle is way to high.
I'll check the connections from battery and starter and see if anything is wrong with the wires.

Check wires and connectors on both ends for corrosion, security, and condition. Check them at both positive and negative at the battery. the battery to ground. The engine block ground. The starter positive.

The fact that it is having trouble once it is warm suggests to me that something is getting warm and the extra resistance giving you issues. If all those connections check out then start thinking about the starter.

Just to confirm, have you made sure that you can EOC in your car in the first place? Many of the pumps in auto trannys are driven by the engine, so when the engine is off but the car is moving, parts in the tranny aren't properly lubricated. I have an automatic and I don't EOC at all. I wish I could though.

Some vehicles available overseas with idling shut-off in manual transmission versions don't retain this feature for its automatic counterparts, and it's not so extreme as EOC.

I don't think there's a problem with your car. I suspect the problem is actually fairly straightforward. Your engine isn't on long enough for the alternator to recharge the battery.

The starter takes a fair bit of power to crank the engine. This power comes from the battery. After starting the engine needs to recharge the battery via the alternator. If the engine only runs for a short period of time the alternator hasnt restored as much charge as the starter consumed.

This almost happened to me a while back when it was really cold. Even though I typically bump start I noticed that my battery got really low one day when it had been dark a lot and I had to use my starter much more than usual due to some mistimed lights. Since it was dark and cold it takes much more power to crank my diesel. I made sure I bump started much more as opposed to using the starter for a few days and then it was fine.

If I recall PaleMelanesian has had the same problem even though he bump starts a lot.

So my guess is you either have to keep the engine running more or put the battery on a trickle charger at night.

I charge my battery over night every few months just because in the winter I only drive 4 miles each way to work and if I stop at all on the way that doesn't end up being enough to fully recharge the battery and it will start cranking over slower and slower, if I have my lights on then even the 4 miles isn't enough to recharge the battery.

The manual says that this car can be flat towed.
The time almost died, I probably shut the engine down 50 times in that trip alone. So that means I just need to trickle charge every night to keep it healthy? I have to park on the street so it would be a bit difficult to charge at night because I don't know if the Extension cord will stretch across the street and the battery charger is an old, big kind that only has a time dial. Not a "smart" charger.

I did however clean the throttle body and IAC. On startup, it revs high then drops down to 1200 or so. Same in neutral at a stop. But only on start up. After it idles at ~800 at a stop in gear (not me driving). Any way to fix that first?

I'm not sure how long your commute is, but 50 starts will definitely take a LOT of battery power. I should also add, that if you intend to do this for a long period of time you may have to prematurely replace the starter. Starters are designed to live for a certain number of starts, and you're putting about 50 times more cycles on it than "normal". Vehicles with auto start/stop systems have special starters designed to handle the increased number of cycles. I'm not saying flat out that you shouln't do what you're doing, I'm just saying be aware of the probable results.

With regard to the charging, you might be able to swap batteries, so you can charge one near the house rather than in the car. That being said, you'd probably want to go with deep cycle for that. Plus that sounds like a lot of battery handling that probably won't be much fun.

[WARNING: Diesel_Dave is far from an expert in modifying electrical systems]
Another thought that occured to me is that you might want to look into putting in a larger alternator. If you had one that was sized so it can charge your battery more quickly then it might be able to keep up. Others will have to give you some tips on exactly how to do this. I'm not sure whether it's just as simple as getting a larger one and making the belt fit, or if there's mods that need to be made to the electrical side of the system. However, my thinking is that if you have an alternator that has twice the output you can keep the battery charged with the engine on half as often. You might also be able to accomplish the same result my putting a smaller pulley on the alternator so it spins faster, but I'm not sure if you'd have to work about overspeeding the alternator when your revs are high.
[End warning]

I agree with DD 50 starts is quite a few. Reducing that number would be a good idea as well as having some way to monitor the battery voltage. Timing lights to reduce that number may help, assuming you are EOC to lights. Hypermiling tips 30, 32 and 33 deal with this subject. Route planning to reduce number of stops? Chose only higher payback time to EOC, longer lights or longer hills? Some aftermarket instantaneous MPG gauges contain functions to monitor battery charging with settable alarms to warn of possible problems and allow instant MPG feedback to help increase MPG.

I think you seriously need to consider a different car/tranny swap to a manual if it is practical.

EOCing, IMO is a manual trans only game. There are a few reasons, number one being safety.

A manual trans gives you the means of instantly spin up the engine to restore power steering and more importantly braking. Most power steering cars are quite steerable without power, brakes, not so much. You get a few pumps, but, when your vacuum supply is gone, you basically have no brakes.

I guess EOCing in the middle of nowhere with good sight lines and no other cars around is OK from a safety standpoint, but I still wouldn't be comfortable.

The other issue is mechanical wear. You may or may not be damaging your tranny and you certainly are making the starter, battery and alternator work much harder.

Starters draw a lot of amps from a batt. It takes a lot of driving just to re charge the battery from 1 start let alone 50. They also get hot and can burn out if they're used too much in a small period of time. Also your alternator is going to draw a lot more to try and re charge the lost amps putting more drag on your accessory drive belt using more gas. A batt with significantly higher cca is also a lot heavier. Additional weight is also causing you to burn more gas. I use a 12 lb race battery. Are you really getting any benefit from shutting your engine off and constanly re starting it?

Most repair manuals tell you to let the starter rest for 10 minutes for every 10 seconds of cranking, the first second is the hardest and will produce the most heat as it's moving the engine from a dead stop, so I'm not sure how to factor in that kind of use but I'd say that if you are restarting with the starter more then once every 5 minutes that you are at risk of burning out the starter very quickly, same with the battery cables that go to the starter.
The starter is also drawing around 100 to 200 amps, maybe more and that kind of high load on the battery takes a while for the battery to recover from, I'd guess at least ten minutes of running and if you are repeating that then putting the battery on a trickle charger is very much needed, if not at home then maybe at work?

My car is in the paint shop right now so I'm driving the other car we have. Saturn Vue V6 auto. This is the car that the battery in my car was supposed to be for but was the wrong size. The current battery negative terminal on the Vue looks corroded. (shown in pic) Is that what I was supposed to look for near the engine block ground? Cause I couldn't find any connections like that.

I was EOC'ing because if I only put the car in neutral, It would rev to 2~3k rpm. Now that I cleaned the Throttle body (previous condition shown in second pic), It only does that when the car just starts up. I am trying to fix that so I don't have to EOC anymore but still benefit from P&G.

If your battery post is corroded and you didn't clean it up when switching batteries then that is another problem right there, it's going to keep the starter from getting full power and it's going to keep the battery from charging as fast or as fully.
Battery posts and terminals should always be clean before being assembled, ignoring this vital step will shorten the life of the whole electrical system by adding a great deal of resistance and lowering the voltage that everything is getting.