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-   -   Ethanol blends: 10% in "reg." gasoline, 5% in mid-grade, 0% in premium (in Ontario) (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ethanol-blends-10-reg-gasoline-5-mid-grade-12202.html)

MetroMPG 02-06-2010 10:18 PM

Ethanol blends: 10% in "reg." gasoline, 5% in mid-grade, 0% in premium (in Ontario)
 
I read this today - it's the first time I'd ever come across this info:

Quote:

Gasoline sold in Ontario is required to have an overall ethanol content of five per cent.

But, as not all engines can tolerate it, you'll typically find 10 per cent ethanol in regular gas, five per cent in mid-grade, and none in premium grades.
From "Most gas has enough ethanol to act as gas-line antifreeze" - Toronto Star, Feb 06, 2010 , by Eric Lai

I mean, I knew about the 5% blend law for Ontario. But the rest of it seems somewhat fishy. Has anyone else heard of this blending approach before if there's mandatory ethanol blending where you live?

Considering I only put about 5 or 6 tanks through the Flea each year, if that's true, maybe I'll start springing for the good stuff!

gone-ot 02-07-2010 06:12 PM

...not Canada, but the state of Arizona uses "...up to 10% oxygenate added..." year-round.

Christ 02-07-2010 06:19 PM

Fed EPA mandates a certain gallon-amount be used in the fuel each year at this point. It's hard to tell without measuring which fuels have it, which ones don't, and how much each one has.

Each pump has a sticker that says "may contain up to 10% ethanol by volume" for this reason. You're never really sure. Of course, they don't tell you how much "water by volume" the fuel now contains because of the ethanol... Imagine, the gas station pays for a thousand gallons of fuel, and sells 1,100 betwen fill ups. :thumbup: Looks great on the books, don't it?

gone-ot 02-07-2010 06:21 PM

...built-in "water injection" from your local gas pump (ha,ha)!

Lazarus 02-07-2010 09:21 PM

Metro, looks like that might be correct. Found this online. They reference that the high octane in Canada is clean due to lack of ethanol supplies.

Quote:

I E-mailed Shell Canada about Octane Ratings and ETHANOL CONTENT . and they said there was no ethanol in the GOLD (Premium) blend and there MAY be 5% in the Silver blend and there MAY be up to 10% in the Bronze blend
It is about Gov't regulations up here ...
Quote:

Heard back from Shell America re ethanol in their gas in the Austin area. Here's what they said-

"Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. Customer comments are important to us as they enable us to improve our service to the public.

All grades of Shell gasoline in the Austin area did recently change to a blend containing 10% ethanol. Other Texas cities such as Dallas and Houston converted all grades several years ago to blends containing 10% ethanol. Shell gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol is approved by all vehicle manufacturers and has the new Nitrogen Enriched cleaning system and is Top Tier certified.

The use of ethanol in gasoline is being driven by EPA's Renewable Fuels Standard, which applies to all gasoline brands.

You are correct about the ethanol content of Shell gasoline in Canada.

We appreciate the opportunity to serve you in this matter and look forward to providing you with quality Shell branded products and service in the future."

So it's official - Shell now uses ethanol and does so in all grades - in Austin anyway

shovel 02-07-2010 10:25 PM

wha?

so-called "premium" has higher octane than the assortment of straight petroleum distillates which make up straight gasoline... as far as I can tell that's the primary distinguishing factor between the 3 typical grades of gasoline at a typical station.

Ethanol's octane rating is also higher than gasoline, and serves to increase the final octane rating of the blended product.

So what else, if not ethanol, are they using to raise the octane rating on "premium"? Xylene? Not like that stuff is good for your fuel pump or the environment...

Hey all you guys who have an anti-ethanol agenda, I have an idea! Give me all your ethanol. My cars run awesome on it!! No idea what everyone else's problem is?

MetroMPG 02-08-2010 02:54 PM

Thanks, Laz.

I also wrote to the author of the article I quoted asking for a source; haven't heard back yet.

MetroMPG 02-08-2010 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shovel (Post 159819)
Hey all you guys who have an anti-ethanol agenda, I have an idea! Give me all your ethanol. My cars run awesome on it!! No idea what everyone else's problem is?

Anti-ethanol agenda? :confused:

Some people don't like the fact that with ethanol, you're getting lower energy density ... without the benefit of lower cost.

Christ 02-08-2010 06:53 PM

1 - Gas already contains xylene and toluene, they're considered aromatics.

2 - Ethanol addition is allowing them to blend cheaper fuels, both by the addition of esters, and because of the addition of esters. What this means is that they're getting Ethanol and blending it at a lower cost to themselves, as well as making fuel which compliments the higher octane rating of ethanol (by making a lower octane fuel), which is a cheaper formulation of ingredients, because the ethanol addition just raises the octane back up to a "normal" level.

3 - It's not an agenda, so much as disgust. How about you go buy some 60/40 hamburger meat, and pay $3.00 per pound for it? Nah, you wouldn't want to do that, because you can get 80/20, which has more substance, meat, nutrition, etc... for the same price, right? I bet you'd be kinda pissed if the FDA/USDA said there was too much fat leftovers from food processing, and mandated that all beef products must be produced with at least 40% fat by 2012... but you're still going to pay the same price for it, including upcoming inflation.

shovel 02-08-2010 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 159985)
3 - It's not an agenda, so much as disgust. How about you go buy some 60/40 hamburger meat, and pay $3.00 per pound for it? Nah, you wouldn't want to do that, because you can get 80/20, which has more substance, meat, nutrition, etc... for the same price, right? I bet you'd be kinda pissed if the FDA/USDA said there was too much fat leftovers from food processing, and mandated that all beef products must be produced with at least 40% fat by 2012... but you're still going to pay the same price for it, including upcoming inflation.

Wha? I kinda figure the cost my station pays for its fuel is a part of the cost i pay for my fuel so I'm not overpaying for it, especially considering how much of it is tax anyway. I can go down to the 76 racing fuel shop and buy 100% gasoline if I want to spend $5.50/gallon or I can buy E10 at any pump in town, my cars run awesome on it and it's $2.69 or so, or I can buy E85 at the fuel depot downtown (it's not widely available in Phx unfortunately) for $2.39 and get about 5-10% fewer miles per gallon which is cool since it's 11% less money per gallon. And my cars run super awesome on it! :thumbup:

Or I can go to the CNG station and cram natural gas into my Tempo for $1.97/GGE and drive around with about 40 horsepower... good enough for getting from A-B


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