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-   -   Ethanol kills grain food market (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ethanol-kills-grain-food-market-1136.html)

WaxyChicken 02-21-2008 07:56 PM

Ethanol kills grain food market
 
Source:
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=4318523

According to a Scientific American research article, The United States would
have to convert 100% of it's land to farming Wheat and grain (not just farm
land, but all land) to meet 80% of the county's demand for ethanol if 100% of
USAmerica switched to the E85 standard.

Well, the US is not doing that and some other countries simply can't do that,
even though E85 and Ethanol are in more of a demand now than ever.

This article is an example of the consequence we are seeing for increased
Ethanol and E85 use as less wheat is being farmed to meet the corn's Ethanol
demand. You have already seen the prices of milk and eggs rise as corn
(used as feed to these animals) has become more expensive due to this
alt-fuel demand. But, as it turns out, the pocket pain does not end there.
(end my commentary)
__________________________________________________ ________

Why You Will Pay More for Bread, Pasta
Rising Demand for Wheat Worldwide Means Skyrocketing Bread and Pasta
Prices for U.S.
http://a.abcnews.com/images/WN/pd_bread_080220_ms.jpg
Bakery owner Pam Weeks counts every pinch of flour and watches every
penny.

"It's just unbelievable how much the price of flour went up overnight β€”
literally," said Weeks, who runs Levain Bakery in New York City.

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Just a few weeks ago, 50-pound bags of flour cost about $15. Today, they're
$40.
"You try to figure out ways to cope, but it's to the point now where we are
going to have no choice. We're going to have to raise prices," she said.
Blame it on the price of wheat. Demand for alternative energy has farmers
planting less wheat and more corn, the key ingredient of ethanol. According
to the USDA, since 1997, the amount of farmland dedicated to planting wheat
has dropped from 70.4 million acres to 60.4 million, while corn acreage has
risen from 79.5 million to 99.6 million.

Add to that the growing appetite for wheat from developing countries, and
the supply is strained. U.S. wheat stockpiles have hit a 60-year low, and
wheat prices have never been higher, which means pasta prices have
doubled. And that loaf of bread will cost you an extra 20 cents. Economists
say food inflation is as high as it has been in nearly 15 years.

The price spike is being felt across the globe. In Italy, the cost of pasta is
spiraling β€” up 20 percent since September. Malaysia no longer allows anyone
to take flour out of the country. And in Pakistan, they now stockpile wheat
and use their military to guard flour mills.

"As long as this strong foreign demand continues β€” as long as the demand
for ethanol continues very rapidly ... there just doesn't seem to be any end
in sight," said Vic Lespinasse, a grain analyst with Illinois Grain.

This puts wheat farmers, like Joe Kejr of Kansas, in the unusual position of
being in the driver's seat.

"It's real exciting to see where prices are. Prices I haven't seen in my
lifetime," Kejr said.

With the world's hunger for ethanol changing the landscape of America,
Weeks said she wonders at what price it will curb our appetite for wheat.

Frank Lee 02-21-2008 08:00 PM

Clearly too many people/acre.

basjoos 02-21-2008 08:05 PM

In short, the appetite of your neightbor's flex-fuel SUV for ethanol is directly competing with your own appetite for food. I wonder which biofuel consumer will win out?

WaxyChicken 02-21-2008 08:17 PM

Doesn't this article also imply that Ethanol will never really get cheaper in price due to the amount of corn production needed?

NoCO2 02-21-2008 08:38 PM

I always said it was a bad idea to use food as fuel for your car...Honestly, electric is the way to go. People just don't believe it.

WaxyChicken 02-21-2008 08:52 PM

^---- I'm with you 100%. Even if they got the Water powered car to work, it's still too many moving parts, too much repair cost, and the hydrogen bonding problem (hydrogen 'rust')

NoCO2 02-21-2008 09:10 PM

Electricity has always been my favorite mode of transportation. It's (relatively) quiet, it's efficient(er) and it's clean(er). The only problem so far has been the evolution of the battery. Right now, the best electric car I have seen is the Tesla roadster which is planned for debut pretty soon. It can manage the speed of a standard sedan or compact car (~125mph top speed). It can do 250 miles on one charge and gets really good acceleration. So that proves that it's possible, but it's very expensive to do, the Tesla roadster has an MSRP of $98,000 which is out of reach for most people, but that's mainly because it uses very expensive components, the least of which is not the batteries. Oil companies should spend less time making oil work and more time making batteries better.

james 02-21-2008 09:43 PM

Don't you love it when the "solution" creates more problems than the original.

trebuchet03 02-21-2008 09:48 PM

Quote:

Globally, foodstuff prices increased 37% last year (over the 14% increase in 2006). Food tensions, shortages and riots have taken their toll in Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt, Guinea, Mauritania, Mexico, Morocco, Senegal, Uzbekistan, Yemen and the list goes on… A stampede of cooking oil buyers, in China, left three people dead and thirty-one injured.
^^ Paraphrasing a NY Times article on Palm Oil.

Quote:

Clearly too many people/acre.
Too many people in general... Correction - too many people with a horribly balanced lifestyle. But that said, I'll say too few people/acre. If the grocery store were within walking or cycling distance - there would be no food/fuel competition :D I hate the whole suburban concept anyway :/ You want me to drive way out where to do anything?!!?

trebuchet03 02-21-2008 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james (Post 10914)
Don't you love it when the "solution" creates more problems than the original.

That is a consequence of engineering yourself out of a problem in the first place... The important thing is that solutions are being pursued - much better in my opinion than sitting still with blinders and ear muffs.

WaxyChicken 02-21-2008 10:06 PM

Perhaps. But Ethanol essentially would convert oil industries from drillers into harvesters with the same price problems and a whole new breed of ecological problems (eg - clear cutting for crops, limits to crop rotation to maintain growth quotas, etc...)

james 02-22-2008 09:01 AM

One thing that the "experts" overlook is that using corn for ethanol (fuel), instead of feed for animals, destroys much of the organic matter that would otherwise be incorporated back into the soil. Cow manure is a great addition to most soils, adding both fertility and organic matter. Organic matter feeds soil organisms, improves drainage, improves drought resistance, and holds nutrients in the soil.

Ryland 02-22-2008 04:00 PM

You can only feed so much grain to a cow befor it gets sick, it's not uncommen for cows to be fed enough grain that they get sick and have to be medicated, but it's done because if you feed grain to beef it makes the fat in the meat white insted of yellow, that yellow is from the chlorophyll in green plants that they have eaten and is a sign of nutrents and a healthy animel, the white fat is harder for people to digest but looks better so it's given a higher grade by the USDA, after all cows have 4 stumics so that they can eat grass off hill sides, not corn out of a troff.
but to head back to the topic, alot of people like my self having been waving our arms in the air saying exactly what is just now being said, it's just to bad that I was crazy back then.

james 02-22-2008 07:53 PM

I did not know that ethanol byproducts went for animal feed, but I guess it is not surprising. Still, I think a lot more energy and organic matter would be preserved by feeding the corn directly to people and animals. Ryland, you are right, cows are so much healthier eating grass and hay. I am not against giving them a little grain to increase milk production. For beef, I think its best for human health (and the animal's) to do strictly grass and hay. Also, most chickens need some grain to produce eggs (especially in winter). Isn't the yellow fat from beta carotene(precursor to vit a)? Probably has vitamin a and d as well. I think that it is probably the same thing that is going on with butter from grassfed cows which is super yellow at the right season (no dye needed!). I know that goats milk is whiter than cows milk (especially cream) because they process the beta carotene into vit a.

bennelson 12-11-2008 10:07 PM

I was doing some reading on this and contacted a local ethanol plant.

Suprisingly, one of their big products is, get this, ANIMAL FOOD!

The ethanol plant creates ethanol, CO2 (sold to beverage companies), and then the leftover "distillers grains" go to feeding animals.

It seems that cows and things can actually digest distillers grains far easier than straight corn. It's like you get to use the corn twice!

If bio-fuels really ARE the thing driving up food prices. (Not the freaking expensive diesel fuel used to ship the average americam meal 2000 miles...) I would imagine that it is from trying to run bio-fuels the same way oil producers do. By treating everything as a "source" instead of a "system".

That is to say, they can see the wood, er boards, but not the forest.

We need to start rethinking how we do everything!!!!


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